SHARMINI PERIES: Welcome to the Real News Network. I'm Sharmini Peries coming to you
from Baltimore.
There was a military coup in Burkina Faso on Thursday. Here's a clip of Lt. Col. Mamadu
Bamba announcing it on national television.
[Lt. Col. Mamadu Bamba announcement]
PERIES: The coup has killed at least ten people, as far as we know. I'm joined by Gnaka Lagoke.
He's a specialist in African political affairs, development, and pan-Africanism. He also founded
the revival of the Pan-Africanism Forum. Thank you so much for joining me today.
GNAKA LAGOKE: Thank you very much for the opportunity.
PERIES: So let's start with what happened yesterday, what led to the announcement on
national television.
LAGOKE: Yesterday we heard that there was a mutiny in Burkina Faso. That the presidential
guard of Burkina Faso, which was a particular force created by Blaise Compaore, and loyal
to him. And was, leader was Gilbert Diendere, decided to take as hostage the president of
the country and also took hostage the prime minister Zida, who is the military [inaud.],
who by the way was a member of the same presidential guard. This is what we know since yesterday.
PERIES: So let's just go back a bit. Now, Compaore was ousted last year in a basically
revolt, by the people asking him to leave. So he was forced to resign. Now, take us back
to that day, and what has happened over the last year.
LAGOKE: I will be brief. Compaore was taken out of power on October 31, 2014, by a popular
uprising. More than a million people in Burkina, Banfora, Ouahigouya, and different cities
in Burkina Faso, because he wanted to change the constitution to indefinitely being in
power in Burkina Faso. So the people in Burkina Faso took to the street and said no, enough
was enough. Blaise Compaore now is in the Ivory Coast. And then is sheltered by Alassane
Ouattara, that he helped become the president of the country.
So since the tradition Burkina Faso has been trying to put together new rules and a new
process by which the people of Burkina Faso can come together and define, write a new
charter, for the new democratic Burkina Faso. And we know that Blaise Compaore and Gilbert
Diendere and the presidential guard, they have tried several times to oppose and derail
the process. And then today, or yesterday, we saw that this time they seemed to be successful
as when they took the president, the prime minister as hostages, we realized that, you
know, it was in fact a basic coup d'etat that we've been witness in that regard, since [inaud.]
times.
PERIES: Now, this most recent coup is related to the elections that are supposed to take
place next month. But the, at least the presidential guard seems to be unhappy with the rules of
the new election process, essentially eliminating people that were a part of the Compaore government.
Give us a little bit more insight into that.
LAGOKE: Yes and no, because Gilbert Diendere--Gilbert Diendere, for those that know the history
of Burkina Faso, has been involved in different situations in the country. He was with Blaise
Compaore in [Thomas Sankara] in 1983, and then later on he was the one, according to
some credible sources, that people went and he killed Thomas Sankara, was under his leadership.
And then since that time he's been elected [loyal]--and loyal servant of Blaise Compaore
for more than 27 years.
So when the [inaud.] the leaders of the CDP, Blaise Compaore's party, when they left in
January 2014, we knew that Diendere was seen as the one to be the successor of Blaise Compaore.
And there were also some rumors that Blaise Compaore's brother wanted also to become the
successor of Blaise Compaore. So people were fighting for power.
Now, even if everything was supposed to go right I knew--you know that Diendere was going
to do everything possible to derail, because he is fighting for his own survival and because
he believes that he can be the rightful president of Burkina Faso after he served Thomas Sankara
and Blaise Compaore. That's the reality people need to see.
Now, the transition decided that the people were involved, they'd also be imprisoned because
they are [inaud.] and they are [crooks] and they are bandits, and because they have been
destroying not only Burkina Faso but the entire [subdivision] of West Africa. The people of
Burkina Faso, there are some who thought that they should be in prison. And in the name
of, the spirit of reconciliation they decided not to persecute them. And I believe that
that was a mistake. And then today they're coming back in order--after every revolution
there is a counterrevolution.
So this is what we're seeing today in the case of Burkina Faso. So they can use the
fact that some people [inaud.] for the position risk as a pretext. But the reality is that
they do not want to revolution to succeed in Burkina Faso. And if it succeeds it's going
to have an impact on the [subdivision] of West Africa and on the entire continent of
Africa. That's the reality, that's the real game that we've been seeing in Burkina Faso.
PERIES: Now, the objective here is democratic rule. However we have a military rule, and
has been more or less even in the transitional format, the military has played a critical
role. Now, they are the ones that have now organized this coup. So give us a sense of
what the role of the military is, and is their objective to remain very close to the leadership
and have control over what's happening in Burkina Faso?
LAGOKE: The presidential guard, you know, as the presidential guard was loyal to Blaise
and is loyal to Blaise, so they have wanted--you know, it is their way or no way. And then
when we talk about democracy, and national reconciliation, and the democratic process--and
then you have to be inclusive, and then people have to talk in the name of truth, and people
wanted to know what happened on October 15, 1987 when Thomas Sankara was killed.
So the parliament decided that they were going to start the trial, and the parliament decided
that they were going to prosecute Blaise Compaore. And the parliament decided that they were
going to now, decided that the presidential guard is going to have less power, like in
the system. So when they saw that everything was going against their selfish and personal
interests, they had a reason to do, according to the witnesses see things, to do what they're
doing today.
But we don't know yet if the entire army is going to rally around them, or if the entire
army is going to support them. But because we believe that the reality on the ground
in Burkina Faso, thanks to what we saw recently last year, we believe that there is strong,
strong desire from the people of Burkina Faso to really write a new chapter, a better Burkina
Faso. And it's going to be difficult for Diendere or whoever is going to be in power. So we
just--we heard that they burned already his house. And there was a rumor that somebody
was supposed to become the prime minister. [Inaud.] the people, despite the fact that
there's a curfew, they went to burn down the house of the person to put, supposed to be
the prime minister. So people are organizing little by little.
The unions are call--have decided to go on strike. And then the leaders of the opposition
have, the most credible one, all of them have denounced the military coup. So it's going
to be difficult for them. They [can make] a few dozens of people, or hundreds, but it's
going to be, it is not sustainable in, today in Africa, in Burkina Faso, it is not sustainable.
PERIES: Now, there was some speculation in the media that this elite presidential guard
anticipated that if the elections take place and Burkina Faso goes back to democratic rule
with the president and a non-military vice president and prime minister and so on, that
they would be sidelined.
LAGOKE: Of course. They would be sidelined, they'd be all the [inaud.] left out Compaore
as committed, economic and political, everything. So that's the fear. They're afraid of the
light. They're afraid of the truth, and they're afraid that if things are normal they are
going to be sidelined and then they're not going to be able to prosper in a new Burkina
Faso. That's the reality in Burkina Faso.
So people--some people may say yes, you know, they should have allowed everyone to run.
I think it was [not going] to be, it was not going to be the solution anyway. Because what
they're doing today, they are going to try and do it maybe in one year, or down the line
one year or two years. Because they want to be in power, and they want the system to be
there forever.
PERIES: So all of this is going on in the presidential palace, and in terms of the government.
But what other organizing efforts are taking place? A million people marched last October
to oust Compaore. Where are they today?
LAGOKE: Beautiful question. This time things seem to be a little bit different, because
people were taken by surprise to see that the presidential guard decided to take the
president of the country as an hostage. So 24 hours, people did not know what to do.
So they--now they seem to do, to come back to the reality, that they have to organize,
and because it's a military coup.
And we know, we heard that Radio Omega, which is like a popular radio that organized the
resistance against Blaise Comapore, has been burned down by the presidential guard. And
Smokey, the rapper, leader of the Civic Broom Movement, his studio--because he is a musician
and artist, his studio [inaud.] was also burned down by the presidential guard. You heard
that some [inaud.] is a reggae singer, I heard this morning that he was arrested. So--in
front of the house of the Sankara family you can see military--I spoke to the sister [inaud.]
this morning. She could not even come out of the place because she heard that people
in the street had been killed.
But there's a buildup. And then the unions, the political parties, people are trying to
gather here and there, then disperse and beaten by the presidential guard. But I believe and
I am confident in the power of mobilization of the very people who last year, who are
together one million people. This time it's going to be more challenging, but I believe
that they will prevail, and I believe that they will overcome, because what they're doing
is not just for Burkina Faso but is for the entire continent of Africa. So this is what
I wanted to [update] [inaud.]
PERIES: Gnaka Lagoke, thank you so much for joining us today.
LAGOKE: Thank you very much. Thanks for the opportunity.
PERIES: Thank you for joining us on the Real News Network.