Following all the breaking
news right now
in the fatal police
beating of Tyre Nichols in Memphis.
And that includes the new revelation
that a seventh police
officer involved in
Nichols arrest has been relieved of duty.
Let's bring in
CNN this morning, anchor Don Lemon,
along with CNN legal analyst Joey Jackson
and the former president
and CEO of the NAACP,
Cornell William Brooks.
Guys, thanks very much for joining us.
Don, I know you've just returned
from Memphis as we learn that more police
and fire personnel, EMTs for that matter,
have now been fired.
What's your sense
from local officials
that you spent days there?
Will we continue
to see those
who were at the scene face consequences?
Shocking that this all happened.
First of all, not so surprising,
quite honestly, that this is happening.
They are doing exactly what they said
that they were going to do.
And I think every member of this panel
will agree.
The police
chief told me in that interview
on Friday
morning that there could be more charges
and more people involved.
The district attorney
said the same thing on Thursday
afternoon.
So it's not surprising
that this is happening.
But the speed
with which this is happening,
I think is remarkable.
It was five
the five initial officers,
they prioritized it.
They realized they had to do something
And then as they go through the video,
we saw the sheriff's deputy on Friday.
His superior had just seen the video.
And therefore,
he was under investigation.
And then now you have the two officers.
It was six earlier in the day.
Now it is seven.
The five initial officers and the two
the last two are relieved of duty.
Pending an administrative hearing.
They are not fired.
So, yeah. Will there be more?
Probably.
And I
think, again, they're
doing exactly what they said
they're going to do.
And they're more charges
and more people will probably
be there will be a fallout from for them.
Joey, let me get your thoughts go ahead.
Yeah, Wolf, I certainly believe that.
Listen, accountability
comes in many forms.
And the reality
is, is that each and every person
who was there,
who enabled
who assisted
who participated, who did nothing.
Everyone has a responsibility.
The world is watching. Who are we?
Who are they?
As a unit
and as police officials
it's about courtesy, professionalism
and respect.
Was any of that shown to Mr. Nichols?
Of course not.
And so clearly,
as the investigation continues,
I think you'll see more fallout
and with that, Wolf,
I understand that there's many forms
of legal accountability.
One, of course, is criminal.
And I think they should be examined.
Everyone should be examined
for either acting or failing to act.
That's number one.
Number two, administrative.
Did you do your job?
Did you do it properly?
Did you do it
in accordance with policies,
rules, regulations, procedures?
If no, you shouldn't be there.
You should not be privileged
or entitled to have that job.
And then,
of course,
there's a civil component
and civil component
designed monetarily to punish family
once their son not money their son.
But the law recognizes
that not only with respect to money,
but with regard to the reforms
that come about as a result of a lawsuit.
So without question,
this is accountability
that's very important to Memphis
and throughout the country.
Cornell, give me your thoughts, too.
Absolutely.
Here we have a
situation
where you have a bystander effect
in blue.
In other words,
you have people with the duty
and responsibility to act
who are charged
with the responsibility of acting,
but they choose not to act.
So there's a kind of collective paralysis
that makes bad worse.
In other words,
someone who stays and beaten
and pepper sprayed,
who is essentially watched over by those
with a duty of care.
In other words,
they're charged with the responsibility
of looking out for this young man
and failed to do so.
You know, Don,
you spent days and days there in Memphis.
What is it
going to take
to stop this kind of deadly incident
from happening in the first place?
What did you learn there?
Well, I think it's accountability
and not just accountability.
And in the way that you it,
I would be interested to know
what these two gentlemen think,
but I think people there want to know.
Okay, so they were fired, right?
And they'll face
whatever legal consequences
they will face.
But I think they many people believe
that going into this
before these incidents happen,
if police can be held
personally responsible well, meaning
they can be sued.
Meaning there is a liability,
meaning they will lose money,
they could lose their homes.
And that
that personal accountability
doesn't often happen
with police departments.
You can sue the department
and then the taxpayer ends up
we end up paying for the lawsuits
and the money.
Perhaps if that
changed and police
were personally responsible
for paying victims,
for paying back the taxpayer and so on
and so forth,
that they would think
about their actions in advance,
knowing that their families
also may face ramifications for this.
You know, Joey,
as of right now,
five police
officers have been criminally charged.
That is one hurdle.
But the other piece of this
are the actual convictions.
Down the road,
you're a criminal defense attorney.
How difficult is that piece?
I think it's
very well for the following reasons.
When you wouldn't
examine a case like this,
you have to examine what brought
about the police conduct.
Number one, police do not
and should not be engaging in any force
unless there's an immediate threat.
Was there an immediate threat
that any one could say
reasonably they saw on that video
that Mr.
Nichols posed at the time answer no.
The second question, Wolf,
becomes the proportionality
of that conduct.
Look at the blows that were thrown.
Look at the kicks that that they had.
Look at the pepper spraying.
Look at the asset that was used.
Was that proportionate
to anything that Mr.
Nichols was doing at the time?
Did he deserve any of that?
Look at the reasonability
of their conduct collectively now.
And that of course, police.
Very briefly, each.
Each individual
defendant will say, well,
I only kicked him.
I only punched him.
I only did whatever I did.
It's not only that.
Well,
you have to examine it in the context
of what everyone else was doing.
You didn't reasonably know
that if you would engage in the conduct
you engaged
in, in keeping with what
everyone else was doing,
that he could die as a result of that.
Really
So that puts a very high responsibility
on the defense.
Last point,
and that is the inactivity
that we all talked about.
You're there to protect.
You're there to serve.
You there to preserve life, liberty.
And you didn't do it.
And so the failing to act also.
So it's a
it creates a very difficult environment
for a defense in this particular case.
Cornell,
I know you wanted to make a point
just a few moments ago, but go ahead.
Sure.
I think one of the things
that's really important
for us
to appreciate here is for ordinary people
that say people are not lawyers.
Accountability
means more than a conviction.
Accountability.
Accountability
means more than a monetary payment,
meaning we're able to sue
a law enforcement officers
in the absence of qualified immunity.
Accountability
means that you can walk down the street
and have your body
and your being be intact.
So in other words,
what Tyre
Nichols mother
accountability means that
her son would be alive.
So we need to be very clear about this.
Conviction is not resurrection.
Her boy is not coming back.
Cornell, William Brooks,
Don Lemon, Joey Jackson, guys,
thank you very, very much.
We'll stay on top of this
story, to be sure.