PRESIDENTIAL TWEETS, HE IS DRIVEN TO AND FROM WORK BY ARMED
SECURITY OFFICERS.
SECURITY OFFICERS. "THE POST" CONCLUDES, QUOTE,
THREE YEARS INTO TRUMP’S
PRESIDENCY THE LIST OF PERCEIVED
ENEMIES CONTINUES TO EXPAND.
FOR DECADES THE GOP CAST ITSELF
AS THE CHAMPION OF THE FBI, CIA,
PENTAGON AND OTHER NATIONAL
SECURITY INSTITUTIONS.
SECURITY INSTITUTIONS. BUT OVER THE PAST THREE YEARS
REPUBLICANS HAVE REPEATEDLY
TURNED ON THOSE AGENCIES
CASTING, QUOTE, UNELECTED
BUREAUCRATS AS THE TRUE VILLAINS
OF THE IMPEACHMENT SCANDAL.
JOINING ME NOW IS GREG MILLER,
NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER FOR
"THE WASHINGTON POST" AND THE
LEAD AUTHOR ON THAT PIECE I HAVE
QUOTED SO EXTENSIVELY FROM.
GOOD TO SEE YOU TONIGHT.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
YOU WROTE ABOUT WHAT HAS
HAPPENED TO SOME OF THE CAREER
OFFICIALS WHO HAVE BEEN SWEPT UP
IN THIS IMPEACHMENT.
WHAT EFFECT IS IT HAVING ON THE
CAREER CIVIL SERVANTS WHO MAKE
THE GOVERNMENT RUN?
>> I THINK IT’S HARD TO KNOW THE
FULL EXTENT OF THE DAMAGE THIS
IS CAUSING, AND IT MAY BE
SOMETHING WE DON’T REALLY COME
TO GRASP FULLY FOR ANOTHER
GENERATION OR SO.
I MEAN, RECRUITING NUMBERS FOR
THE STATE DEPARTMENT HAVE BEEN
DOWN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.
MORALE AT THE STATE DEPARTMENT
IS NEAR ALL-TIME LOWS OR AT
LEAST LOWS IN TERMS OF RECENT
HISTORICAL STANDARDS.
HISTORICAL STANDARDS. BUT, YOU KNOW, THE ENVIRONMENT
INSIDE THE GOVERNMENT RIGHT NOW
IN MANY OF THESE PLACES IS SO
TOXIC AND SO HOSTILE IN A WAY I
JUST DON’T THINK THE BROADER
PUBLIC FULLY COMPREHENDS WHAT
HAS BEEN UNLEASHED HERE.
OUR PURPOSE TO RELEASE THIS
STORY WAS TO DOCUMENT WHAT IT
WAS LIKE TO LIVE THROUGH THAT
FIRST-HAND DAY AFTER DAY AFTER
DAY.
DAY. >> RIGHT, AND HISTORY HAS SHOWN
US WHISTLE BLOWERS ALWAYS HAVE A
TOUGH TIME OR PEOPLE WHO COME
OUT AGAINST EITHER THEIR
COMPANIES OR THE GOVERNMENT
OFTEN HAVE A TOUGH TIME BEFORE
HISTORY WRITES THEM INTO THE
NOBLE CHARACTERS THAT THEY ARE.
BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT
SOMETHING YOU WROTE IN YOUR
PIECE.
PIECE. YOU SAY, QUOTE, SOME OF THE
RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE MOUNTING
COLLATERAL DAMAGE FALLS ON
CAREER OFFICIALS AND POLITICAL
APPOINTEES WHO TOOK JOBS IN THE
ADMINISTRATION DESPITE DEEP
OBJECTIONS TO THE PRESIDENT’S
VIEW.
VIEW. THESE OFFICIALS HOPED THEY COULD
STEER THE UNCONVENTIONAL
PRESIDENT WHO HAS AN AFFINITY
FOR OUGHTAUTOCRATS AND AVERSION
TOWARDS ALLIES.
TOWARDS ALLIES. THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO
JOINED THE GOVERNMENT AT THE
BEGINNING OF THIS TERM WHO
STAYED IN GOVERNMENT HAVING BEEN
CAREER PEOPLE SAYING WE CAN KEEP
THIS SHIP FROM GOING OFF COURSE.
WHEN YOU SAY THEY BEAR
RESPONSIBILITY, WHAT DO YOU
MEAN?
MEAN? >> WELL, I THINK WE FELT IT WAS
IMPORTANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE IN OUR
STORY THAT THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO
MADE DECISIONS TO WORK FOR AN
ADMINISTRATION LED BY A
PRESIDENT WHO’S VIEWS AND
CONDUCT MANY OF THEM ACTUALLY
FIND ABHORRENT.
FIND ABHORRENT. THIS IS ULTIMATE DELIMA OF THE
TRUMP LED GOVERNMENT WARE GOING
THROUGH NOW.
THROUGH NOW. WHEN THEY FIND PEOPLE TO COME ON
ANY LEVEL OF EXPERTISE SAY
RUSSIA OR CRIMEA OR VERY
CONSEQUENTIAL MATTERS OF
NATIONAL SECURITY WHO HAVE VIEWS
THAT CORRESPONDENT TO THE
PRESIDENT IT’S REALLY DIFFICULT.
SO IN CASE AFTER CASE AFTER CASE
YOU HAVE PEOPLE COMING AGREEING
TO TAKE JOBS OUT OF A SENSE OF
DUTY.
DUTY. AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE POINT
OUT IN THE STORY IS TRUMP NOW
HAS TURNED ON THESE PEOPLE.
HE’S REPEATEDLY CALLED THEM
NEVER-TRUMPERS WHEN IN FACT THEY
ARE ARE THE OPPOSITE.
THEY AGREED TO JOIN THIS
ADMINISTRATION AND TAKE JOBS
OTHERS REFUSED TO TAKE AT SOME
PERSONAL COST.
PERSONAL COST. BUT THEM BEING SO OUT OF SYNC
WITH THE PRESIDENT ON HIS POLICY
AGENDA HAS CREATED AND FED THIS
INTERNAL FRICTION THAT WE’RE
WRITING ABOUT.
WRITING ABOUT. >> YOUR DESCRIPTION OF WHAT’S
GOING ON WITH FIONA HILL MAKES
IT HARD TO UNDERSTAND HOW SHE
CONTINUES TO BE ABLE TO COME IN
AND DO HER JOB EVERY DAY.
VINDMAN SAME THING, LIEUTENANT
COLONEL VINDMAN.
COLONEL VINDMAN. ARE THEY ACTUALLY ABLE TO DO
THEIR JOBS UNDER THIS SORT OF
PRESSURE AND WITH THIS SORT OF
ISOLATION?
ISOLATION? >> I MEAN, AS I KEEP -- A MOMENT
AGO I USED THE WORD DUTY, AND I
THINK THAT IS A VERY MEANINGFUL
WORD FOR PEOPLE LIKE LIEUTENANT
COLONEL VINDMAN WHO CONTINUES TO
GO TO WORK AT THE WHITE HOUSE
EACH AND EVERY DAY AND TO DO
WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE HIS JOB.
NOW, I MEAN WHAT HAPPENS WITH
HIS WORK PRODUCT IS AN ENTIRE
OTHER QUESTION.
OTHER QUESTION. THIS IS SOMEBODY WHO’S THERE TO
HELP MANAGE POLICY ON UKRAINE.
AND HE IS THERE WRITING REPORTS
AND ANALYTIC PAPERS AND THINGS
LIKE THIS THAT DON’T GO ANYWHERE
NEAR THE PRESIDENT.
I THINK IT’S JUST ASTONISHING
HE’S BEEN IN THAT JOB FOR SUCH A
LONG TIME, NEVER SPOKEN A WORD
WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP, NEVER HAD
ANY INTERACTION WITH HIM EXCEPT
FOR THE PRESIDENT TO TAUNT HIM
AND INSULT HIM IN PUBLIC.
>> FOR YOUR PIECE YOU ALSO SPOKE
WITH STEVE BANNON, THE
PRESIDENT’S FORMER CHIEF
STRATEGIST, WHO’S CALL FRD THE,
QUOTE,
QUOTE, DECONSTRUCTION OF THE
ADMINISTRATIVE STATE.
ADMINISTRATIVE STATE. DO YOU GET THERE’S A PLAN IN THE
ADMINISTRATION TO UNDERMINE WHAT
THEY CALL THE DEEP STATE OR THE
ADMINISTRATIVE STATE?
ADMINISTRATIVE STATE? >>
>> >> YOU KNOW, THAT’S A GREAT
QUESTION AND I THINK IT PROBABLY
GOES TOO FAR SAY THERE’S AN
ACTUAL COHERENT PLAN UNDER WAY
AND IT’S BECAUSE YOU HAVE ALL
THESE DIFFERENT AGENDAS.
WE SPOKE WITH BANNON IN PART
BECAUSE WHEN HE CAME IN AS
PRESIDENT TRUMP’S PRINCIPLE
ADVISOR EARLY ON IN THE WHITE
HOUSE THIS WAS HIS DECLARED WAR
ON THE ESTABLISHMENT.
HE WANTED THE MASS REMOVALS OF
PUBLIC OFFICIALS FROM ALL RANKS
OF GOVERNMENT.
OF GOVERNMENT. PRESIDENT TRUMP NEVER REALLY HAS
A LOT OF HOSTILITY TOWARDS THE
GOVERNMENT, TOWARDS THE CIA AND
FBI, BUT HE DOESN’T THINK IN
THOSE SORT OF IDEOLOGICAL TERMS
THE WAY BANNON DOES, AND SO
BANNON ENDED UP BEING PURGED AT
ONE POINT.
ONE POINT. WHAT I THINK IS MOST STARTLING
NOW IS THE FACT THAT MUCH OF THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS NOW
EMBRACED THIS ASPECT OF TRUMPISM
WHERE IT’S NO LONGER AS IT WAS
EARLY IN THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY.
YOU HAD HIM ATTACKING THESE
INSTITUTIONS, AND THEN YOU WOULD
HAVE REPUBLICAN DEFENDERS OUT
THERE LIKE NOW DECEASED SENATOR
JOHN McCAIN.
JOHN McCAIN. I MEAN, THE ENTIRE REPUBLICAN
PARTY HAS EMBRACED THIS IDEA OF
TALKING THESE INSTITUTIONS TO