HERE NOW WHO DOESN’T HAVE TO SPECULATE, HE DOES KNOW SOME OF
THESE FACTS, MAYBE ALL OF THEM.
WE’LL SEE HOW MUCH HE CAN SHARE
WITH US TODAY.
FORMER CIA DIRECTOR, JOHN
BRENNAN.
BRENNAN. >> HI, CHUCK.
>> WE LEARNED THAT 12 RUSSIAN
OPERATIVES, RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE
OFFICERS DID THIS.
>> MILITARY OFFICIALS.
>> THIS IS WHAT’S AMAZING TO ME.
TO IDENTIFY THIS DOZEN FOLKS,
HOW DIFFICULT IS IT TO IDENTIFY
A RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE OFFICER?
JUST SORT OF WALK US THROUGH --
TO HAVE IDENTIFIED AT LEAST 12
OF THESE FOLKS, AND IT MAY BE
MORE, BUT THEY SEEM TO THINK
THEY HAVE THE ENTIRE GROUP OF
RUSSIANS THAT DID THIS.
>> REMEMBER IN JANUARY OF 2017
WHEN THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY
ISSUED THE ASSESSMENT, IT
IDENTIFIED THE GRU, THE RUSSIAN
GENERAL STAFF, THE RUSSIAN
MILITARY INTELLIGENCE, AS BEING
THE PERPETRATORS OF THIS ATTACK.
SO AT THAT TIME WE ALREADY KNEW
IT WAS THE GRU.
BUT I THINK THE DOJ’S INDICTMENT
TODAY IS TESTAMENT TO THE
TREMENDOUS EFFORTS AND WORK OF
THE FBI AS WELL AS THE
INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY AT LARGE
IN TERMS OF PUTTING TOGETHER THE
PIECES FORENSICALLY AS WELL AS
OTHER INTELLIGENCE THAT MIGHT BE
AVAILABLE TO IDENTIFY THE EXACT
INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE RESPONSIBLE
AND INVOLVED IN THIS ATTACK.
>> LET’S GO THROUGH SOME IN THIS
INDICTMENT, WHAT DID YOU LEARN
TODAY THAT WAS NEW TO YOU?
>> WELL, I THINK I LEARNED SOME
OF THE DETAILS, BUT I DON’T
THINK I LEARNED A LOT NEW.
AS I SAID IN THE INTELLIGENCE
COMMUNITY ASSESSMENTS, WE
ALREADY HAD MOST OF THE ESSENCE
OF THE NATURE OF THE ATTACK AND
WHO WAS INVOLVED.
BUT I THINK THE DOJ WAS TRYING
TO MAKE SURE THEY COULD PUT
THINGS OUT PUBLICLY SO THAT THEY
COULD REALLY JUST IDENTIFY THE
INDIVIDUALS INVOLVED BUT ALSO
PROTECT THOSE SOURCE AND METHODS
THAT WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO RELY
ON.
ON. >> ONE OF THE MORE DISTURBING
ASPECTS OF THIS INDICTMENT WAS
THE FACT THAT THE ATTEMPTS TO GO
TO THE ELECTION ROLLS IT LOOKS
LIKE WERE MUCH MORE
SOPHISTICATED THAN MAYBE WE
THOUGHT.
THOUGHT. IT WASN’T JUST TESTING TO SEE
WHAT THEY COULD GET.
THAT THEY WERE -- THEY WERE
GOING TO SOME -- SEEING WHAT
THEY COULD DO.
MAYBE THEY FOUND OUT THEY
COULDN’T CHANGE THE VOTE AND
MAYBE THEY THOUGHT THEY COULD.
THIS HAPPENED IN OCTOBER.
HOW QUICKLY WAS THE INTEL
COMMUNITY ALERTED THAT THIS WAS
HAPPENING?
HAPPENING? WHEN DID YOU FIND OUT THAT THIS
WAS HAPPENING?
WAS HAPPENING? WAS IT A COUPLE OF WEEKS LATER?
>> WE SAW THINGS HAPPENING IN
REALTIME BECAUSE BY OCTOBER, THE
DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY
AND JEH JOHNSON WAS ACTIVELY
WORKING WITH A LOT OF THE STATE
ELECTORAL SYSTEMS AND BOARDS AND
GOVERNORS.
GOVERNORS. >> SORT OF WATCHING, IS THAT
WHAT IT IS?
ALMOST LIKE CAMERAS WERE ON IN
ALL 50 STATES?
>> OUR SENSORS AND MONITORS WERE
HERE AND THAT’S WHERE WE
UNDERSTOOD THEY WERE GOING AFTER
VOTER REGISTRATION ROLLS.
WE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THE
TYPES OF THINGS THEY COULD DO.
THAT’S WHY I THINK SOME OF THE
PUSHBACKS AGAINST THE RUSSIANS
IN THE MONTHS, AUGUST,
SEPTEMBER, OCTOBER MIGHT HAVE
DETERRED THE RUSSIANS FROM DOING
MORE THAN WHAT THEY MIGHT HAVE
DONE.
DONE. CLEARLY THEY HAD SOME OF THE
CAPABILITY, THEY HAD A PRESENCE
AND IT WAS A QUESTION ABOUT
WHETHER OR NOT THEY WERE GOING
TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON IT.
>> WHAT MAKES THE GRU BETTER
THAN THIS THAN THE FSB?
>> WELL, I WOULDN’T SAY THAT
THEY’RE NECESSARILY BETTER.
THEY HAVE DIFFERENT TYPES OF
CAPABILITIES AS WELL AS AREAS OF
EMPHASIS.
EMPHASIS. BUT THE FSB, WHICH IS THE FBI
EQUIVALENT IN RUSSIA, THE SVR,
WHICH IS THE CIA EQUIVALENT IN
RUSSIA AND THE GRU, THOSE THREE
HAVE VERY SOPHISTICATED AND
CAPABLE CYBER EFFORTS THAT ARE
UNDER WAY TO GO AFTER SOMETIMES
DOMESTIC DISSIDENTS INSIDE OF
RUSSIA AS WELL AS EXTERNAL
EFFORTS.
EFFORTS. >> WERE ANY OF THESE RUSSIAN
OFFICERS FAMILIAR TO YOU?
>> SOME OF THE NAMES I’M AWARE
OF.
OF. >> IN THAT THEY ARE JUST REGULAR
OPERATIVES THAT YOU WOULD HAVE
RUN-INS WITH OR IT WOULD BE IN
THINGS LIKE THIS OR ESPIONAGE.
>> THE GRU IN THE LAST SIX OR
NINE MONTHS OR SO OF MY TENURE
WAS GOING THROUGH SOME
LEADERSHIP CHANGES AT THE
SENIOR-MOST LEVELS.
SENIOR-MOST LEVELS. BUT THE GRU IS VERY ACTIVE
OUTSIDE OF RUSSIA’S BORDERS.
THEY HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO DO
THINGS ABROAD, WHETHER IN
UKRAINE OR OTHER AREAS OF
EASTERN EUROPE.
EASTERN EUROPE. >> WHY -- AND MAYBE YOU’RE NOT
THE BEST PERSON TO ASK THIS, BUT
WHY DO YOU THINK THE AMERICANS
WEREN’T NAMED NOW?
WHY DO YOU THINK THEY HESITATED
ON WIKILEAKS AN HESITATED ON
ROGER STONE WHEN THE INDICTMENT
ESSENTIALLY DESCRIBES BOTH THE
INDIVIDUAL AND THE ENTITY?
>> I THINK THIS IS VERY
QUINTESSENTIAL BOB MUELLER IN
TERMS OF BEING THOROUGH AND VERY
DELIBERATE AS WELL AS VERY
STRATEGIC IN HIS APPROACH.
WHEN IN FEBRUARY THE DEPARTMENT
OF JUSTICE INDICTED THE INTERNET
RESEARCH AGENCY AND 12 RUSSIAN
CIVILIANS, THAT WAS THE FIRST
SHOE TO DROP.
THE SECOND ONE IS RUSSIAN
GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS, THESE
MILITARY GRU OFFICERS.
I THINK THE THIRD SHOE TO DROP,
AND AGAIN SPECULATING ABOUT WHO,
WOULD BE U.S. PERSONS WHO MAY
HAVE BEEN INVOLVED.
YOU NEED TO INDICT FOREIGN
OFFICIALS IN ORDER TO HAVE A
CONSPIRACY.
CONSPIRACY. >> TODAY WAS THE ESSENTIAL
CRIME.
CRIME. TODAY WAS THE INDICTMENT ON THE
ACTUAL -- HERE’S THE CRIME THAT
TOOK PLACE, STOLEN MATERIAL, AND
WHO DID IT, RIGHT?
AND SO WHAT YOU’RE SAYING IS
THAT THE AMERICAN ASPECT OF THIS
WOULD BE THE CONSPIRATORS.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. THE ONES THAT WERE WORKING WITH
THE RUSSIANS.
THE RUSSIANS. I THINK ROD ROSENSTEIN DID A
VERY GOOD JOB IN TERMS OF BEING
VERY CAREFUL IN TERMS OF WHAT HE
SAID.
SAID. BUT THIS INDICTMENT WAS IN NO
WAY DESIGNED TO IDENTIFY
AMERICAN U.S. PERSONS WHO MAY
HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS
CONSPIRACY TO INFLUENCE THE
ELECTION.
ELECTION. >> WALK ME THROUGH THE DECISION
PROCESS THAT YOU GUYS WENT
THROUGH IN 2013 WHEN EDWARD
SNOWDEN GOT ASYLUM AND YOU
PULLED THE PLUG ON A PUTIN
SUMMIT.
SUMMIT. WAS THAT THE TIT FOR TAT?
WAS THAT THE PUNISHMENT?
>> IT WAS SOMETHING THAT THE
NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WILL
GATHER TO DISCUSS WHAT IS THE
BEST WAY FORWARD ON SOMETHING AS
SERIOUS AS THAT, AS THE SNOWDEN
DEFECTION.
DEFECTION. >> THAT HAPPENED AND YOU GUYS
CONVENED A MEETING.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. AND PRESIDENT OBAMA WAS VERY
MINDFUL OF WHAT BOTH THE REALITY
AND PERCEPTION WOULD BE OF A
MEETING LIKE THAT AND ALSO
WANTED TO SEND A CLEAR SIGNAL TO
RUSSIA ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE NOT
ACCEPTABLE.
ACCEPTABLE. THAT’S WHY IT WAS VERY
APPROPRIATE FOR THE DEPARTMENT
OF JUSTICE TO ANNOUNCE THESE
PUBLICLY TODAY.
PUBLICLY TODAY. >> YOU THINK IT’S IMPORTANT TO
DO IT BEFORE THE SUMMIT?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. IT’S VERY IMPORTANT TO GIVE MR.
TRUMP A CHANCE TO BOW OUT OF THE
MEETING IN HELSINKI.
HE DECIDED NOT TO.
IF MR. TRUMP TAKES THIS
SERIOUSLY AND TREATS IT LIKE HE
SHOULD AS THE PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES, HE SHOULD GO TO
HELSINKI, MEET WITH MR. PUTIN
AND IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS TELL
HIM IT IS INCONTROVERTIBLE THAT
YOU AUTHORIZED INTERFERENCE IN
OUR PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.
THIS MUST STOP AND IF IT DOESN’T
STOP, THERE ARE GOING TO BE SOME
REALLY SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES TO
PAY.
PAY. >> WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES?
WHAT ARE THE REALISTIC
CONSEQUENCES THAT YOU THINK
WOULD CHANGE PUTIN’S BEHAVIOR?
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK A
CONSEQUENCE WOULD BE FOR MR.
TRUMP TO CHANGE HIS FAWNING
ATTITUDE TOWARD MR. PUTIN AND TO
BASICALLY CALL THE RUSSIANS OUT
ON A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT
THEY’RE DOING, NOT JUST IN THE
CYBER WORLD BUT ALSO ON THEIR
INSIDIOUS EFFORTS TO TRY TO
INFLUENCE EVENTS AND POLITICS IN
MANY COUNTRIES, WHETHER IT BE ON
THE BREXIT VOTE OR OTHER VOTES
INSIDE OF EUROPE.
BUT I DO THINK IT’S IMPORTANT
FOR MR. TRUMP TO BE ABLE TO LAY
DOWN TO MR. PUTIN EXACTLY WHAT
THOSE FACTS ARE.
NOW, THIS IS A VERY DANGEROUS
TIME.
TIME. REMEMBER, WE HAVE INDICTED NOW
12 RUSSIAN MILITARY OFFICIALS
FOR TRYING TO INTERFERE IN THE
ELECTION AND INFLUENCE THE
OUTCOME.
OUTCOME. WHAT WE CAN’T DO IS NOW GO TOE
TO GO WITH RUSSIA AND BRING THIS
TO WAR.
TO WAR. WE CERTAINLY CAN’T DO THAT.
BUT WE CANNOT GIVE THEM A PASS.
THIS TAKES A VERY DEFT AND
SOPHISTICATED HANDLING IN ORDER
TO ENSURE THAT WE GET THROUGH
THIS VERY CHALLENGING TIME
WITHOUT SPARKING SOME TYPE OF
MAJOR CONFRONTATION BETWEEN
MOSCOW AND WASHINGTON.
>> VERY QUICKLY, YOU HEARD US
TALKING ABOUT THE PANAMA PAPERS.
HE HAS ALWAYS BELIEVED -- THE
PANAMA PAPERS EMBARRASSED HIM
BECAUSE IT EXPOSED HIM AS AN
OLIGARCH.
OLIGARCH. >> YES.
>> YES. >> HE BLAMES THE UNITED STATES,
DOESN’T HE?
DOESN’T HE? >> WE DIDN’T DO IT.
>> BETWEEN THAT AND THE OLYMPICS
AND THE DOPING, THIS IS A MOTIVE
FOR PUTIN.
FOR PUTIN. >> HE LOOKS AT THINGS THROUGH A
PRISM ABOUT HOW THE UNITED
STATES AND THE CIA IN PARTICULAR
ARE DOING THINGS TO EMBARRASS
HIM AND I THINK HE’S VERY
PARANOID ABOUT THESE THINGS,
WHICH UNFORTUNATELY LEADS HIM TO
DO A NUMBER OF THINGS IN
RESPONSE.
RESPONSE. BUT THE PREDICATE IS FAULTY.