LETTER TO HIS CHOSEN HOME".
ROGER BENNETT, THANK YOU VERY
MUCH.
>>> FINALLY THIS MORNING, IN ONE
OF BILL MAHERS RECENT SO-CALLED
NEW RULES, HE ARGUED
PROGRESSIVES TEND TO NOT
RECOGNIZE THE PROGRESS BEING
MADE ON ISSUES THAT HAVE,
INDEED, SEEN MAJOR MOVEMENT,
LIKE SAME-SEX MARRIAGE.
>> PROGRESSIVE PHOBIA, THATS
THE PHRASE COINED TO DESCRIBE A
BRAIN DISORDER THAT STRIKES
LIBERALS AND MAKES THEM
INCAPABLE OF RECOGNIZING
PROGRESS.
BEFORE 2012, EVERY TIME GAY
MARRIAGE WAS PUT BEFORE VOTERS,
IT LOST.
35 TIMES IN A ROW.
NOW ITS THE LAW OF THE LAND IN
EVERY STATE.
EVEN HALF OF REPUBLICANS ARE FOR
IT.
>> THAT ISSUE, INTERESTINGLY,
AND PERHAPS UNEXPECTEDLY, HAS
OFTEN DEFIED PREDICTABLE
IDEOLOGY.
FOR INSTANCE, IN 2008,
PROPOSITION 8, A CALIFORNIA
BALLOT PROPOSITION AND A STATE
CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT,
INTENDED TO BAN SAME-SEX
MARRIAGE, WAS FUELED IN LARGE
PART BY BLACKS AND LATINOS WHO
HAD ALSO TURNED OUT IN LARGE
NUMBERS FOR BARACK OBAMA.
OBAMA HAD HIMSELF DEFINED
MARRIAGE AS, QUOTE, THE UNION
BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN, AND
FOR NEARLY TWO YEARS INTO HIS
PRESIDENCY SAID HE WASNT
PREPARED TO REVERSE HIMSELF.
IT WASNT UNTIL 2012 THAT HE
CHANGED HIS STANCE.
THREE DAYS AFTER HIS VICE
PRESIDENT, JOE BIDEN, FAMOUSLY
FORCED THE ISSUE.
>> LOOK, I AM VICE PRESIDENT OF
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
THE PRESIDENT SETS THE POLICY.
I AM ABSOLUTELY COMFORTABLE WITH
THE FACT THAT MEN MARRYING MEN,
WOMEN MARRYING WOMEN, AND
HETEROSEXUALS ARE ENTITLED TO
ALL THE CIVIL RIGHTS AND
LIBERTIES, AND QUITE FRANKLY, I
DONT SEE MUCH OF A DISTINCTION
BEYOND THAT.
>> THAT WAS AN AMAZING MOMENT,
AND LAST YEAR IT WAS THE
TRUMP-APPOINTED JUSTICE, NEIL
GORSUCH, WHO PROVIDED THE SWING
VOTE IN ONE OF THE MOST SWEEPING
LGBTQ RIGHTS RULINGS IN SUPREME
COURT HISTORY, PROTECTING GAY
AND TRANSGENDER PEOPLE FROM
WORKPLACE DISCRIMINATION.
LETS BRING IN AUTHOR AND
REPORTER SASHA EISENBERG WHO
TEACHES IN THE POLITICAL SCIENCE
DEPARTMENT AT UCLA, AND IS OUT
NOW WITH A BOOK "THE ENGAGEMENT,
AMERICAS QUARTER CENTURY
STRUGGLE OVER SAME-SEX
MARRIAGE", ALSO "NEW YORK TIMES"
REPORTER JEREMY PETERS.
>> GREAT TO HAVE YOU WITH US.
SASHA, ITS REMARKABLE HOW
QUICKLY THINGS HAVE CHANGED.
2004, OF COURSE, SAME-SEX
MARRIAGE BANS, BALLOTS WERE USED
TO HELP ELECT A REPUBLICAN
PRESIDENT IN 2004.
WE JUST TALKED ABOUT BARACK
OBAMA IN 2008 SAYING MARRIAGE IS
BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN, AND M
2012 FINALLY REVERSING HIS
COURSE.
AND YET HERE WE ARE, NINE YEARS
LATER THAT, AND DONALD TRUMPS
APPOINTEES TO THE SUPREME COURT
ARE PERHAPS WRITING SOME OF THE
MOST SWEEPING OPINIONS EVER ON
THE ISSUE OF LGBTQ RIGHTS.
>> YEAH, ITS ONE OF THE
REMARKABLE THINGS OVER THE LAST
SIX YEARS, JOE, HOW LITTLE
BACKLASH THERES BEEN TO THE
SUPREME COURTS LANDMARK RULING
IN JUNE 2015.
I CERTAINLY EXPECTED IF YOU HAD
SOMEBODY LIKE DONALD TRUMP, WHO
REALLY JUST HAS AN INSTINCT FOR
PITTING AMERICANS AGAINST ONE
ANOTHER, ANNOUNCED HIS CANDIDACY
FOR PRESIDENT THE SAME MONTH YOU
HAD A SWEEPING CIVIL RIGHTS
OPINION THAT OVERTURNED STATE
LAWS IN A VARIETY OF RED STATES,
THAT YOU WOULD SEE THE TYPE OF
BACKLASH WE SAW IN OTHER
MONUMENTAL DECISIONS AND THERE
HASNT BEEN THAT IN THE LAST SIX
YEARS.
>> JEREMY PETERS IS WITH US AND
HAS A QUESTION.
>> SASHA, GREAT REPORTING,
EXCELLENT BOOK.
I CANT WAIT TO FINISH IT.
AND I WONDERED, IN YOUR
REPORTING OF THIS LONG HISTORY
OF THE GAY MARRIAGE RIGHTS
MOVEMENT, TO WHAT EXTENT DID YOU
FIND THAT MONEY AND CAMPAIGN
DONATIONS TO INDIVIDUAL STATE
LAWMAKERS WHEN THESE LAWS WERE
BEING DEBATED ABOUT A DECADE
AGO, WAS THE REAL FACTOR, VERSUS
THE REAL HUMAN-TO-HUMAN LOBBYING
THAT WENT ON IN THESE
LEGISLATORS WHERE YOU HAD GAY
RIGHTS ACTIVISTS GOING TO STATE
SENATORS, ASSEMBLYMEN AND
SHOWING THEM GAY COUPLES AND
FAMILIES, SAYING THESE ARE
PEOPLE JUST LIKE YOU, THEY HAVE
DREAMS AND ASPIRATIONS AND LOVE
FOR ONE ANOTHER JUST LIKE YOU
HAVE FOR YOUR WIFE.
AND I KNOW THE ACTIVISTS SAID
THAT WAS VERY EFFECTIVE.
BUT I DO WONDER IF A LITTLE
GREASING OF THE PALM OF CAMPAIGN
CONTRIBUTIONS WAS ALSO A
SIGNIFICANT FACTOR.
>> ABSOLUTELY, JEREMY.
AND YOU COVERED THIS IN ALBANY.
I THINK THEY WENT HAND IN HAND.
PART OF THE ABILITY TO DO
LOBBYING WAS A
PROFESSIONALIZATION OF GAY
RIGHTS ACTIVISM STARTING IN THE
1980s AND THE GROUP OF GAY
DONORS, YOU KNOW, MILLIONAIRES
AND BILLIONAIRES WORKING IN
SECRET FOR MANY YEARS THAT
HELPED RAISE MARRIAGE TO THE TOP
OF THE GAY RIGHTS AGENDA.
ONE OF THE THINGS THEY WERE ABLE
TO DO WAS TO GO INTO STATES AND
CHANGE THE WAY THAT THEY WERE
FIGHTING THESE BALLOT MEASURES
THAT JOE MENTIONED, AND ALSO
RUNNING LOBBYING CAMPAIGNS.
AND PART OF THE SHIFT THAT YOU
SEE BEFORE 2012 WAS AN ABILITY
TO START FOCUSING ON WHY -- ON
PUTTING GAYS AND LESBIANS FRONT
AND CENTER IN THE CAMPAIGNS AND
TRYING TO COMMUNICATE TO
PERSUADABLE VOTERS BASICALLY
THAT GAYS AND LESBIANS WANT TO
MARRY FOR THE SAME REASONS THAT
STRAIGHT PEOPLE DO.
>> I WANT TO ASK YOU THIS
QUESTION.
THERES OFTEN THIS KIND OF A --
>> TITLE PROFESSOR.
>> THERES OFTEN AN ASSUMPTION
THAT THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY,
BECAUSE OF THEIR IDENTITY, ARE
PROGRESSIVE. BUT HOW DO WE THINK ABOUT THE
BUT HOW DO WE THINK ABOUT THE
WIDE IDEALOGICAL SPECTRUM THAT
DEFINE THS
DEFINES THIS COMMUTE AND HOW IT
IMPACTS THE WAY THAT GAY
MARRIAGE HAS BECOME A PART OF
THE CULTURE AT THIS MOMENT, THE
FACT THAT WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT
IT AS A DIVERSE SPACE.
>> THERE ARE ACTIVE DEBATES IN
THE MOVEMENT ABOUT WHETHER
MARRIAGE WAS EVEN DESIRABLE AND
THERE WAS A SORT OF
LIBERATIONIST WING, FEMINIST
WING OF WHAT WE CALL THE LGBT
RIGHTS MOVEMENT THAT THOUGHT
MARRIAGE WOULD BE
COUNTERPRODUCTIVE TO THE CAUSE
OF GAY LIBERATION.
IRONICALLY, THE THING THAT
UNITES THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE
AROUND MARRIAGE AS AN OBJECTIVE
IS OPPONENTS START TO TAKE IT
SERIOUSLY.
WHAT HAPPENS IN THE MID-90s AS
THE ACT BEGINS TO MOVE TO
CONGRESS IS THAT GAYS AND
LESBIANS SEE THAT THEIR
OPPONENTS HAVE MADE STOPPING
THEM FROM MARRYING A TOP ITEM ON
THEIR AGENDA, AND ALL OF A
SUDDEN PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN
OPPOSED TO MARRIAGE OR THOUGHT
IT SHOULD BE LOW PRIORITY,
REALIZE IF OUR OPPONENTS ARE
FIGHTING SO HARD TO STOP US FROM
GETTING THIS, WE NEED TO BE ON
THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BATTLE.
>> THE NEW BOOK IS "THE
ENGAGEMENT, AMERICAS QUARTER
CENTURY STRUGGLE OVER SAME-SEX