>>> I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING WITH US TODAY BECAUSE
WE'RE GOING TO BE SIGNING A DAY OF PRAYER AND THAT WILL BE ON
SUNDAY. THAT WILL BE A VERY SPECIAL DAY.
I DON'T KNOW WHEN THIS WAS DONE LAST, BUT IT HAS BEEN A LONG
TIME AGO. IS THAT A CORRECT STATEMENT?
>> THAT'S CORRECT. >> WE KNOW.
FOLLOWING HIS PROCLAMATION, MANY CHURCHES ARE LIKELY UNITED IN
PRAYER AS WE SPEAK FOR THOSE EFFECTED BY THE STORM.
THE VICTIMS OF THIS HURRICANE NEED MONEY AND HOUSING.
SEVERAL LOCAL FAITH LEADERS ANSWERED THAT CALL, OPENING UP
HOUSES OF WORSHIP, INCLUDING LOCAL MOSQUES TO SHELTER
VICTIMS. ONE HOUSTON PASTOR WADED OUT TO
CHECK SUBMERGED VEHICLES TO MAKE SURE NO ONE WAS TRAPPED INSIDE.
BUT WEALTHY MEGACHURCH PASTOR JOEL OSTEEN CAME UNDER FIRE THIS
WEEK FOR GIVING VARIOUS EXCUSES FOR KEEPING DOORS TO HIS CHURCH
WHICH COULD HOLD MORE THAN 16,000 PEOPLE CLOSED.
HE ONLY OPENED TO EVACUEES AFTER INITIALLY NOT OFFERING ANYTHING
BUT PRAYERS BY HIS TWITTER ACCOUNT.
JOINING ME, FRANK SCHAEFER, AUTHOR OF WHY I AM AN ATHEIST
WHO BELIEVES IN GOD. AND MARK BURNS, PASTOR AT
HARVEST PRAISE AND WORSHIP CENTER, MEMBER OF DONALD TRUMP'S
EVANGELICAL COUNCIL. I WANT TO START BY ASKING THE
IDEA THAT DONALD TRUMP FEELS LIKE HE INNOVATED NATIONAL DAY
OF PRAYER, THAT'S NOT TRUE I TAKE IT?
>> THAT'S NOT TRUE, IT STARTED UNDER PRESIDENT EISENHOWER WITH
BILLY GRAHAM, THAT STARTED IN
1950 OR '51. >> HAPPENS EVERY YEAR, ANNUAL
DAY OF PRAYER MAY 4th, THAT'S THE DAY THERE'S NATIONAL DAY OF
PRAYER. MY GREAT TEAM, PRESIDENT BARACK
OBAMA NAMED MEMORIAL DAY 2016 AS NATIONAL DAY OF PRAYER.
SO IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. DONALD TRUMP DIDN'T MAKE THAT
UP. ONE OF THE REASONS WE WANTED TO
TALK TO YOU, YOU WROTE A PIECE IN RESPONSE TO THE JOEL OSTEEN
KERFUFFLE IN WHICH HE DID NOT OPEN THE ASTRO DOME.
16,000 PEOPLE IT CAN FIT. UNTIL HE WAS DRAGGED ON SOCIAL
MEDIA AND IN THE MEDIA FOR NOT OPENING HIS CHURCH.
WROTE THE CHEAP PROSPERITY GOSPEL OF TRUMP AND OSTEEN.
THEIR BRANDS ARE ROOTED IN SUCCESS, NOT SCRIPTURE.
HURRICANES AND FLOODS DO NOT PROVIDING WINNING NARRATIVE
CRUCIAL TO KEEP ADHERENCE CHAINED TO PROSPERITY GOSPEL
THINKING. THAT'S WHY IT IS EASY FOR BOTH
MEN TO ISSUE PLATITUDES INSTEAD OF EMPATHY.
THEY LACK COMPASSION FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT PROSPEROUS BECAUSE
THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW THE RULES. WHY LINK DONALD TRUMP TO
PROSPERITY GOES WELL WITH OSTEEN?
>> IT IS IMPORTANT TO SAY WHAT THAT IS SO LISTENERS UNDERSTAND.
IT IS A BELIEF ROOTED IN CAPITALISM THAT USES SCRIPTURES
TO SAY YOU CAN BECOME RICH IF YOU FOLLOW GOD'S WORD BASICALLY.
THE REASON YOU ADD DONALD TRUMP TO PROSPERITY GOSPEL, MOST OF
THOSE PEOPLE ARE PROSPERITY GOSPEL PEOPLE.
PAULA WHITE, OTHER FOLLOWERS BEHIND HIM THAT ARE PROSPERITY
GOES GOSPEL. THE ONES HE CALLS FOR PRAYER ARE
PROSPERITY GOSPEL PEOPLE. IF WE REMEMBER DURING THE
ELECTION, JOEL OSTEEN SAID HE WAS A WONDERFUL MAN BUT DIDN'T
ENDORSE HIM. I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO
PUT THE TWO OF THEM TOGETHER BECAUSE THEY HAVE SIMILAR
BACKGROUNDS, BOTH INHERITED THEIR FATHER'S BUSINESSES, BOTH
OF THEM ARE THE 1%. BOTH OF THEM ACTUALLY SELL
THEMSELVES AS A WAY TO SHOW TO BE SUCCESSFUL, YOU MUST DO WHAT
I DO. I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT AT THIS
PARTICULAR TIME TO THINK ABOUT THE PEOPLE OF HOUSTON, THINK
ABOUT WHAT THEY NEED AND WHAT THEIR NEEDS ARE BECAUSE I AM A
HOUSE TONIAN, I AM WORRIED ABOUT WHAT IT DID TO THE CITY I LOVE.
I WAS APPALLED AT JOEL OSTEEN AND THE WAY DONALD TRUMP SAID
YESTERDAY NOT EMPATHETICALLY, LOOKS LIKE EVERYBODY IS JOYFUL
AND HAVING FUN. HOW ARE YOU HAVING FUN SLEEPING
ON THE COUCH AND EVERYTHING YOU OWN IS UNDERWATER.
YEAH, THIS IS ABOUT EMPATHY. >> MARK BURNS, I THINK WHAT A
LOT OF PEOPLE LOOK AT DONALD TRUMP BUT HIS EVANGELICAL CIRCLE
AROUND HIM, PAULA WHITES, JOEL OSTEENS, FRANKLIN GRAHAM,
THERE'S A SENSE THAT WHEN YOU READ THE PLAIN WORD OF JESUS, IT
IS ABOUT LOVING THE POOR, ABOUT WELCOMING THE STRANGER, ABOUT
TENDING TO THE NEEDY, THE WIDOW AND THE ORPHAN, BUT ON THE OTHER
SIDE YOU'VE GOT THESE EVANGELICALS FOR DONALD TRUMP
THAT SEEM TO BE MUCH MORE ABOUT SOFLING THE WEALTHY, CRITICIZING
PEOPLE THAT ARE POOR BEING THEIR FAULT.
HOW DO YOU SQUARE THAT AS A PASTOR THAT IS FOR DONALD TRUMP.
>> JOY, I CAN TELL YOU I AGREE WITH YOU WHOLEHEARTEDLY, JESUS
DID SPEAK ABOUT FEEDING THE POOR, JESUS DID SPEAK ABOUT
LOVING THOSE THAT ARE UNFORTUNATE AND FOR ME AGAIN I'M
NO PROSPERITY PREACHER. I HATE THAT TERM THAT'S BEEN
COINED. I PREACH THE GOSPEL OF JESUS
CHRIST, THAT INCLUDES FEEDING THE POOR, HELPING THE
DISENFRANCHISED, ALSO INCLUDES THE SAME WORD JESUS SAID.
JESUS SAID I'VE COME THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE LIFE AND HAVE IT MORE
ABUNDANTLY, THAT THERE IS PRINCIPLES OF JESUS THAT IF WE
FOLLOW THE BLESSINGS OF GOD ARE CONDITIONAL.
THE LOVE OF GOD IS UNCONDITIONAL.
THERE'S A RESPONSIBILITY FOR THOSE OF US WHO PREACH THE WHOLE
GOSPEL, MEANING INCLUDING HELL AND SIN.
>> WAIT. DID YOU JUST SAY IF YOU FOLLOW
THE WORD OF GOD, THERE ARE FINANCIAL REMUNICIPALER AGENCY
THAT COME, FINANCIAL BLEGSINGS COME FROM THAT?
>> IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO
UNDERSTAND IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT A FINANCIAL REWARD BECAUSE GOD
WANTS YOUR MIND FIRST BEFORE HE EVER BLESSES YOU WITH MONEY.
GOD WANTS YOUR HEART FIRST. HE WANTS TO MAKE SURE THOSE WHO
DO FOLLOW THE RULES AND PLANS OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, THAT YOUR
HEART BE SOLD OUT TO JESUS FIRST SO WHEN YOU ARE IN A PLACE OF
AUTHORITY, WHEN YOU ARE IN A PLACE OF BLESSING THAT YOU DON'T
JUST PUSH OTHERS DOWN, BUT YOU'RE IN POSITION TO TURN
AROUND AND HELP PEOPLE OUT. >> DO YOU THINK HE WAS RIGHT TO
KEEP IT CLOSED UNTIL HE WAS FORCED TO OPEN IT?
DO YOU THINK HE WAS WRONG TO KEEP HIS CHURCH CLOSED?
>> I THINK THE CRITICS OF JOEL OSTEEN, I AM APPALLED TIKRIT
IMCOMPETENTS OF JOEL OSTEEN. THE CRITICS OF JOEL OSTEEN
DIDN'T SHOW UP TO HELP THE FLOOD UNTIL THEY FIRST SAW WATER.
JOEL OSTEEN AND HIS FAMILY HAS BEEN IN HOUSTON, HELPING
FAMILIES FOR DECADES. THEY DIDN'T START SHOWING UP
WHEN THE WATER SHOWED UP, THEY HAVE BEEN IN THAT COMMUNITY,
HELPING PEOPLE FOR YEARS. LET ME SAY THIS.
HE DOESN'T PACK UP THAT DOME WITH 20, 30,000 PEOPLE BECAUSE
HE IS HURTING PEOPLE. HE PACKS IT OUT BECAUSE HE HAS
BEEN HELPING PEOPLE, AND THAT'S A TESTIMONY BY ITSELF THAT HE
OBVIOUSLY HAS BEEN A MAJOR PLAYER IN BLESSING THE POOR,
BLESSING THE NEEDY, HELPING PEOPLE THAT ARE DISENFRANCHISED.
YOU PUT ANY CRITIC AGAINST THE RECORD OF JOEL OSTEEN'S RECORD
IN REFERENCE TO HELPING PEOPLE, I'LL TAKE JOEL OSTEEN'S RECORD
ANY DAY. >> LET ME LET FRANK SCHAEFER
INTO THIS. YOU COME FROM THIS BACKGROUND,
THIS WORLD THAT YOUR FATHER WAS VERY MUCH INVOLVED IN IN TERMS
OF THIS SORT OF PROSPERITY MINISTRY, THIS KIND OF
EVANGELICALISM. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE JOEL
OSTEEN AFFAIR HERE? >> IT'S INTERESTING YOU BRING UP
MY DAD, THE THEOLOGIAN, FRANCIS SCHAEFER.
I GREW UP WITH MY PARENTS IN A SMALL MISSION, BACK BEFORE HE
BECAME A RELIGIOUS RIGHT LEADER, BEFORE HE GOT FAMOUS, BEFORE MOM
STARTED HANGING OUT WITH THE PRESIDENTIAL FAMILIES, THE BUSH
FAMILY, JACK KEMP, WHO WAS A VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE AND
SO FORTH. LONG BEFORE THAT, WE WERE IN A
SMALL MISSION. ONE OF MY DAD'S BIG POINTS WAS
WE DON'T ASK FOR MONEY AND PEOPLE THAT THINK GOD ONLY
BLESSES YOU IF YOU'RE GOOD OR IF YOU FOLLOW HIM OR IF YOU GIVE
MONEY TO CERTAIN MINISTRY, DAD HAD A WORD FOR THAT, THAT WAS
HER HE IS EE. THEIR BOTTOM LINE IS SUCCESS IN
THE CAPITALISTIC MATERIAL TERMS. OLD FASHIONED EVANGELICALS LIKE
MY FATHER, GOD BLESS HIM WHO I AGREE WITH MUCH OF HIS RELIGIOUS
RIGHT STUFF THESE DAYS AND MOVED BEYOND IT, HARSH CRITIC OF THE
EVANGELICAL MOVEMENT, HERE'S A GUY WITHOUT A SECRETARY.
WORKED ON THE EDGE OF HIS BED IN A ROCKING CHAIR SAYING THE MONEY
WE BRING IN HAS TO GO BACK INTO THE LORD'S WORK TO HELP PEOPLE.
JOEL OSTEEN LIVES IN A 10 TO $15 MILLION HOUSE.
HE IS ONE OF THESE CON ARTISTS LIKE SO MANY IN THE EVANGELICAL
WORLD, ALL ABOUT SEND ME MONEY, GOD WILL BLESS YOU.
WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT THEMSELVES, LOOK HOW GOD BLESSED ME, THE
TROUBLE WITH HOUSTON OR ALL CATASTROPHES, IT DOESN'T FIT IN
WITH THE OSTEEN TRUMPIAN VIEW OF LOOK AT ME, LOOK HOW SUCCESSFUL
I AM. YOU CAN BE LIKE ME IF YOU GO TO
TRUMP UNIVERSITY IN TERMS OF TRUMP'S CON GAME, IF YOU COME TO
MY CHURCH IN TERMS OF JOEL OSTEEN AND OTHER EVANGELICAL
GUYS. I AM MISSING CHURCH WITH MY
GRANDCHILDREN, I AM NOT RELIGIOUS, I AM NOT EVANGELICAL
ANY MORE, BUT OSTEEN AND THESE PEOPLE IN TERMS OF THE OLD TIME
EVANGELICAL GOSPEL ARE HERETICS. THEY PREACH OF JESUS THAT HASN'T
COME TO MINISTER TO THE POOR, DID NOT SAY BLESSED ARE THE POOR
AND THE MEEK. OSTEEN AND TRUMP COME FROM THE
CAPITALIST AMERICAN IDEA OF SUCCESS.
THEIR GOSPEL IS THE GOSPEL OF BLESSED ARE THOSE THAT TRIUMPH
OTHER OTHERS AND GET RICH. THIS IS NOT WHAT JESUS PREACHED.
I AM NO LONGER EVANGELICAL. IF MY DAD WERE HERE, HE
DISAGREES WITH A LOT OF WHAT I SAY THESE DAYS, HE IS DEAD, BUT
IF HE WAS HERE, HE WOULD BE TOTALLY ON BOARD WITH WHAT I'M
SAYING HERE, SO WOULD ANY EVANGELICAL WHO COMES OUT OF A
PAST THAT WAS ABOUT ACTUALLY MINIMUM STERG TO PEOPLE AND NOT
RAISING MONEY FROM THEM, NOT CONNING THEM I INTO THIS SUCCES
IDEA OF WHAT LIFE IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT.
>> I WISH WE HAD MORE TIME FOR THIS PANEL.
I AM GOING TO REMAIN FOR US, WE WANT YOU GUYS TO COME BACK.
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. APPRECIATE EVERYBODY.
>>> COMING UP AT THE TOP OF THE HOUR, THIS MORNING DONALD TRUMP
WAS ASKED BY REPORTERS IF HE WAS GOING TO ATTACK NORTH KOREA.
HIS RESPONSE, WE'LL SEE. ALEX WITT WILL HAVE MORE ON
THAT. >>> NEXT ON "AM JOY," THE
POTENTIAL DANGEGER