Umu: Everyone, welcome to this very very very special interview,
I have been wanting to interview this songwriter for the longest time now,
so it is my absolute pleasure to introduce Ms. Rodnae "Chikk" Bell!
Chikk: I love the full name! Let's get into it!
Oh my goodness, you might know me for some of my K-pop works,
I have toplined, saying written for some of my favorite artists, actually,
they've become some of my favorites, so,
NCT's Kick It, NCT's Favorite; Monster, Overdose by EXO,
Girl's Generation Mr.Mr., SHINee, BoA, Taeyeon,
I mean, the list goes on and on.
Umu: First of all I would love for us to go back in time,
go back to your very first writing session in Korea,
how did it happen, what was your knowledge level at that time about K-pop?
Chikk: So at this point, living in the states, living in California,
my publisher at the time, who I absolutely adore and love,
Harvey Mason Jr., I was in the studio with him
and we had just started working together, it was a very very very new relationship,
and he's like: "Do you want to go to South Korea?"
And I'm like: "What the heck is in South Korea?"
And he's like: "K-pop!"
I'm like: "What is K-pop?"
I literally had never heard of it.
He's like: "It's Korean pop music."
I'm like: "What would I do there? Do you want me to just come with you to hang out?"
And he's like: "No, I want you to write it."
And he had to like really express to me where it came from and the R&B factors and the pop factors,
and I was like, "I don't know."
And he was like: "Well they provide our food"
I'm like, "Oh, you should have led with that, I'm going."
"I'm going, if they're gonna feed us, you should have just said that!"
"We could have skipped all of this!"
So I ended up going out there 2013 on my first camp with Harvey Mason Jr. of the Underdogs,
Me, Mike Daley, J.Que Smith, Brittany Burton,
this was all of our first times, we were one of the first international camps to go over to SM,
we were the beginning of it.
Umu: And back in 2013, I know, I interviewed a pair of writers who said that
SM sat them down to introduce them to K-pop and to their artists in 2013,
since you were all newer to K-pop, did SM ever explain, "This is what the K-pop community or genre is like"?
Chikk: Absolutely, they sat us down, with food, by the way,
this was very very important for me, (Umu: Okay, that is very important.)
with food at the conference room around a table and there is a TV in front of us,
and on that TV they are giving us this like pitch,
so pictures, videos, concepts, where they've been, where they wanna go,
I mean, I was actually so blown away by it cuz I was like,
"Wow, I don't get these kind of pitches in the US."
So it was very new for me but shortly I realized, it's because the genre is so full of graphics
and color and special moments that they really wanted us to understand this before we created their music.
Umu: And like, the color popped off in Mr.Mr.
so let's talk about that writing session.
When you got into the room, your first writing session, Mr.Mr.
Did you know you were writing this for SNSD?
Chikk: At this time I wasn't as rebellious as I am now,
now I never read leads, I'm like, "What is a lead? I don't- I'm just gonna write what I want!"
But at the time I was very obedient, and they did tell us they wanted something for Girls' Generation,
so we actually wrote a song called 'Green Light' which later ended up being like an album cut,
like, we, actually it was called 'Beep Beep'.
...and then did a couple of more,
and then one day, I just remember us being exhausted
and me and Brittany were in the room and it was like,
"Oh, I think we're not gonna get anything today."
I was like, "Well, let me just, let me go try to put a pass down."
Harvey came in the room, he was like: "I'll just, I'll vocal produce you",
sat down at the computer, and when Harvey gets on the computer it's special,
but he's like, "Let's just see what comes out, if nothing comes out we can all go back to the hotel."
I go on in there, I mean the very first take,
and this is not normal, so I can say this, I'm not boasting, it's not always on the first take,
the entire chorus came out in one take.
It was wild, Harvey like jumps up, I can see him through the little window, right,
and he jumps up like, "That's it, that's it!"
And I was like, "That's it" and we end up finishing the song.
Umu: And so that was your mentality, like,
"I'm wanting to create something that is just immediately catchy, immediately strong."
Was that something that was recommended on the lead sheet
or just something that popped into your head as you were listening to the instrumental?
Chikk: No, it was the instrumental for me.
It was the track, I mean, ♪Who do you think you are♪
like it just needed that, like it was like, "Oh, this is, like, right!" You know what I mean?
Like it just, it was the track that inspired it, that track was just crazy.
Umu: Absolutely crazy, I can't imagine just like listening to it for the first time and just
having everything come to you so naturally.
Which then, I guess, leads sort of to the next question.
Which part of Mr.Mr. was written first and what was the inspiration for it?
Was it the chorus or did someone come up with the verse or something else first?
Chikk: Nope, it was the chorus.
The chorus lead everything, yeah, that "Mr. Mr." just lead us into everything else.
We didn't actually finish the song in Korea, so we got all the way up to the bridge,
and at that time it was more or less like, "If you like it we'll finish it."
Now, we just kind of finish songs now, but back then it was like, "if you like it,"
"but let's move on to the next one so we can get as many as possible."
The bridges usually came after they decided "Yes, we want to take the song."
So that's how it was back in the day.
So we got back to the States, Harvey calls me and like, "They want Mr.Mr."
and then I did the bridge, in the States, that's how the song was completely finished.
Umu: Do you remember, as the song developed,
did the A&Rs come in to say, "Hey, add more voice layers in the chorus?"
Or, "Can you add more riffs here?"
Chikk: No.
There was no real vocal change, no...
It might have been production change, I can't really speak,
but I don't even think Mike did that much to the production either,
it was pretty s- this was a pretty solid first demo,
we're keeping everything including the bridge I did in the states,
but it was keeping my voice on it, so my voice is still on it in the chorus,
so I can actually say that I am the tenth member.
Umu: Let's go Chikk! 10th member [of] SNSD!
I, what I love about the chorus is not only the melody
but how it's like the sung melody and then they have "Dadadadada",
you know, like, they had some sort of vocal reply, was that also written in the first session?
Chikk: Yes, that was in our first session.
I can honestly say, like this is so crazy, but I was created for K-pop.
Like, I wrote in the States for many years, and I had cuts, no album cuts on big artists,
on smaller artists, but the big artists would cut it, but it wouldn't come out,
so Iggy Azalea, Jordin Sparks at the time, like Jennifer Hudson, like these other artists,
but they wouldn't come out on the album, they would just cut the song.
When I went to Korea I left with two Number 1s in my first trip,
and every time I went back, and so I just honestly felt like I could hear things,
like little moments in songs first, and I didn't even know what was happening,
but I was - the sound was coming out naturally.
When you wrote those kind of interjections throughout the song and the harmonies,
would that have been something that you would put in a song if you were writing for a western artist?
Or is that particularly specifically so that, like SNSD with the number of members that they had,
could all have a part?
Chikk: It wasn't that which is actually such a great question, you said it so well,
because that is something that we do as writers now, think about how many members,
but back then I didn't understand that just yet.
You gotta remember, I'm at the beginning.
So actually, what my thought process was, was, I wanted to be entertaining.
So for me, when I do my raps and I'm toplining,
I am really thinking concerts, I am thinking the tour, I am thinking them on stage, like, I am thinking dance.
I am not really thinking how many members, so at the time it was like, let's color it!
But then I'm like, "Oh wait, now there is enough parts for members"
So that was something I caught on to after, personally.
Umu: And speaking of vocals, the key changes?!
Was that in the first demo?
Chikk: Yeah, it was in the first demo.
And let me tell you, The Underdogs are just, they're a different type of, you know,
if you know, Damon Thomas is known for his key changes, he's known for his bridges, right?
and all the Chris Browns, and the old school 90s R&B, like, they are known for this,
so that moment for me was like, "I feel like I'm in church right now!"
So that was on the original.
Fans, ever since the song was released, were like:
"Is this song specifically inspired by Beyoncé's 'Love On Top'?"
"Is this the Korean 'Love On Top'?"
But perhaps it just comes straight from the producer himself,
maybe that's just his style.
Or maybe was there a little Beyoncé influence in there?
Chikk: I don't- I would have to ask Mike, right? We would have to ask The Underdogs.
If that was an inspiration, it wasn't when we wrote it,
but listen, that's such a huge compliment, I will take it!
Umu: Yes!
When the song was first released with the music video,
do you remember how you felt watching that music video for the first time?
Chikk: Huh, ha.
I... I remember being in like total shock, like first of all, that's my voice.
Second of all, these visuals.
Third of all, this dancing, like I was, I hadn't seen it before, so it was such a shock for me.
Um, but actually at the time, because I didn't sign a very-
so this is the personal, you want the personal, you want the vulnerable, you want the-?
Okay, we're going a little deep.
I actually didn't sign a very big advance,
and as you know, you don't see money for 9 to 12 months after a song is released.
So Mr.Mr. was my very first cut, like, pretty much ever,
and I didn't have money.
So I was actually delivering groceries when I found out that I had a number 1 song out in the world,
and it was hard because I was like, "wait-"
But obviously, once the money started coming in, it all balanced,
but I was actually delivering groceries when I see that it was actually like top 20 songs on Time Magazine's 2014.
Yeah, I was delivering groceries,
and so for me it was like that little glimmer of hope, that light, like keep going, keep going!
You might not be here, you might be delivering groceries today,
but one day you might wake up and have the highest selling girl group in K-pop history,
as I do today, so that's cool!
So do not give up! Do not give up.
Umu: For sure.
So as you released this first song you were excited as you saw the music, the dance,
saw that it hit all the charts,
but the main reaction was like,
"Wait, am I getting what I deserve?"
"Because I put all my work, my voice is there?"
Chikk: Absolutely, so young, so green, not knowing, and actually I didn't get paid initially for my vocals, I didn't,
and when I asked to get paid for it because I just felt like that should have probably happened,
I had to fight for it.
Now, today, it's a given, it's a given.
I have actually had writers reach out to me like,
"Thank you for fighting for us years ago because now, today, I actually get something."
And I think that those messages from the newer K-pop writers
have really made those nights where I cried and I asked God "Why would you have it like this?"
It's made it all worth it because now they pay when the vocals are on there,
now they're giving something to the songwriters,
but I had to fight for years.
I was threatened that I would never work in the K-pop business again
because I would ask for what was fair,
and I just, I continued on, and I'm really glad that I did.
Umu: Yes, I know a bunch of songwriters right now are tuning in to watching this,
so I know they are saying "Thank you, Chikk" in the comments, in the DMs, like, all the thank is coming your way.
And I can't help but wonder,
we talked about the business side of pop production that you learned through releasing Mr.Mr.
But was there also anything about the writing process
that you learned at this first writing session
that has continued on in future writing sessions?
Chikk: Absolutely, to trust yourself.
I think because I was in the US for so long, I'm not getting cuts,
It's not that I didn't think I was good, it was just kinda, I think I got complacent.
So when I go over to South Korea, they're going crazy for these melodies,
it sparked a fire in me that made me wanna go harder
so I really started to study minor chords, I really started to dive into harmonies,
and I believe some of the songs that I have done after Mr.Mr. and so on that I have done well,
I adopted a mentality of "I wanna find something that's never been done"
That is how I approach every song.
What sound haven't we heard? What melody haven't we sang?
Like, I am looking for the innovative, on the other edge,
and that first camp pulled that out of me and I have been like that for the last ten years.
Umu: Oh my goodness, I can't help but think that you helped develop the SM sound because of that.
The music that you have written, the majority of it we have reacted to on our channel,
and our musicians are very picky with what they listen to, right?
They're like, "Where are the harmonies, where are those unique chords, what is innovative?"
Cuz they love listening to things that surprise them, right?
And so we always love your toplines because you put so much of your soul,
so much research into making something so fun to listen to, as you were explaining, like,
"I wanna make sure Mr.Mr. is so fun"
and so you have successfully done that, may I just say.
The prechorus, do you remember who the prechorus ended up being written by?
Chikk: I'm pretty sure it was me, it was just me and Brittany on the song, me, Brittany Burt-
yeah, so we all did it together.
Umu: The flip into head voice *sings prechorus melody*,
I'm like thinking like how did you come up with that so quickly?
It's kind of a difficult vocal technique!
Chikk: But you know what's crazy, you know what, if I can call recall this exactly like the real moment,
but Kenzie was on this camp, so the first time we all met Kenzie as well,
and she wasn't in the Mr.Mr. group,
but two or three days before her and I had wrote Overdose.
Which, we didn't know any of these, this was all the same camp,
but we didn't know any of these were singles, I didn't know anything.
Kenzie went *Overdose chorus melody*
and it was the first time I have actually written a melody like this, I was like, this is so crazy,
so she actually pulled out:
"Do not be afraid to go against the grain of notes and what the norm is."
And something she always said, which, she said it to me and Harvey, and she said:
"You can't be predictable."
And I just, at that point, I like -
So this first camp was so important to what became my writing style,
but we do, we're not predictable over here,
so even when I'm teaching and coaching at my K-pop, so I'm like,
"No, you gotta do something that they don't think is coming."
And I remember when did that pre-hook, that was the heart,
like, no, let's do something that is so against the grain of what it should be.
Umu: Oh my gosh, there is endless amount of knowledge to be learned from you,
from the past, is it ten years now, of K-pop writing experience that you have had,
so I need to ask:
Where can people find you on social media, where can people learn from you?
Can you tell us where to find you?
Chikk: Absolutely, so we have Chikk's K-pop academy
where I am teaching upcoming producers and songwriters
how to create K-pop, and the innovative style, Chikk style,
we're just trying to create a whole bunch of other people
who I have really talked into what makes them special
to add to this genre of music,
so, Chikk's K-pop Academy on Instagram,
and then my page as an artist, as a coach, as a bestie, as a singer,
The Chikk Experience, c h i k k, @thechikkexperience,
and yeah, I just, I don't know, I love giving back, I love talking, and this is- and singing, obviously.
Umu: Let's go!
Well, we're obviously going to have to have you again,
you have written so many iconic songs that I'd absolutely love to ask you about
and I am sure our viewers want to know more from you so if our viewers could do me a favor,
comment in the comment section which song do you want me to ask "Kenzie" about next,
is it EXO's Overdose, Monster; any NCT song, SHINee's Don't Call Me,
which one should we tackle next, and we'll hopefully see "Kenzie" soon,
Umu: don't forget to follow her on- Chikk: You're calling me "Kenzie".
Umu: OH MY-
[It was at this moment that she knew, she f#%ked up]
Umu: OH MY GOD!
Chikk: I'll take it though!!!
I will be the Black Kenzie!
Umu: Let's please help me in welcoming her back to the channel
and encouraging her to get her own channel, right?
Chikk: Absolutely!
Come over to the Chikk Experience YouTube!
Umu: Let's go!
Chikk: And I just, I have to say, thank you so much to ReacttotheK,
you guys, talk about innovative,
you might not be doing toplines but you guys are definitely leading the way
when it comes to classy, special, important information on how K-pop records are created,
so thank you for your work, all of you guys, thank you so much.
Umu: Thank you for being down to talk about it, right, like, I could have-
I might have these curiosities but I wouldn't be able to actually make the content itself
if people like you weren't so down to share your experiences, so, right back at you.
Chikk: So great to be here, thank you so much for having me!
Umu: Of course, we'll see you in the next video!
Chikk: Okay.