.
. >>> A TRUMP DONOR HAS BECOME THE
MOST FAMOUS AMBASSADOR TO THE
EUROPE UNION EVER, HOTEL MOEGAL
GORDON SONDLAND UNDER HEAT AS
SEVERAL WITNESSES SAY HE WAS
PLOTTING WITH TRUMP ON THE
PHONE.
PHONE. A SECOND OFFICIAL OVERHEARD
SONDLAND TALKING TO TRUMP.
ONE OF THE NEW REVELATIONS FROM
THE IMPEACHMENT HEARING.
>> IN THE PRESENCE OF MY STAFF
AT A RESTAURANT, SONDLAND CALLED
PRESIDENT TRUMP AND TOLD HIM OF
HIS MEETING IN KYIV.
THE MEMBER OF MY STAFF COULD
HEAR PRESIDENT TRUMP ON THE
PHONE ASKING AMBASSADOR SONDLAND
ABOUT THE INVESTIGATIONS.
THE MEMBER OF MY STAFF ASKED
AMBASSADOR SONDLAND WHAT TRUMP
THOUGHT ABOUT UKRAINE.
SONDLAND RESPONDED THAT
PRESIDENT TRUMP CARES MORE ABOUT
THE INVESTIGATIONS OF BIDEN
WHICH GIULIANI WAS PRESSING FOR.
>> SONDLAND HAS REVISED HIS
PRIVATE TESTIMONY ABOUT SOME OF
THESE ISSUES.
THESE ISSUES. HE CLAIMED HIS MEMORY WAS
REFRESHED BY WHAT OTHER PEOPLE
SAID WHICH MOVED HIM INTO THE
CAMP OF PEOPLE DESCRIBING
BRIBERY.
BRIBERY. HE DID FAIL TO MENTION THIS
INCRIMINATING PHONE CALL.
AS SONDLAND’S STOCK HAS FALLEN,
PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS GONE FROM
SHOUTING OUT SONDLAND’S GREAT
WORK TO SUDDENLY HAVING MEMORY
PROBLEMS.
PROBLEMS. >> OUR AMBASSADOR TO THE EUROPE
UNION, GORDON SONDLAND, THANK
YOU GORDON.
YOU GORDON. WHERE IS HE?
GREAT JOB.
GREAT JOB. GOOD.
GOOD. LET ME JUST TELL YOU, I HARDLY
KNOW THE GENTLEMAN.
THE TEXT MESSAGE I SAW FROM
AMBASSADOR SONDLAND WHO’S HIGHLY
RESPECTED WAS THERE’S NO QUID
PRO QUO.
PRO QUO. I DON’T RECALL, NOT EVEN A
LITTLE BIT.
LITTLE BIT. >> DONALD TRUMP IS SPINNING THIS
DEFENSE SO HARD HE NOW CLAIMS HE
DOESN’T REMEMBER THIS FAMOUS
PERSON.
PERSON. THE MANEUVER IS NOT VERY
BELIEVABLE HERE.
BELIEVABLE HERE. IT’S WIDELY KNOWN AS A MARIAH
CAREY MOVE WHEN THE SINGER TOOK
A QUESTION ABOUT J-LO AND
IMPLAUSIBLY CLAIMED SHE DIDN’T
KNOW HER.
KNOW HER. >> I LOVE BEYONCE.
GREAT SINGER.
GREAT SINGER. VERY SWEET.
VERY SWEET. I DON’T KNOW HER.
>> OOPS.
>> OOPS. I DON’T KNOW HER.
THAT QUIP WAS CLASSIC SHADE
WHICH WORKED BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY
CAREY KNOW WHO IS JENNIFER LOPEZ
AND IS TRUMP KNOWS WHO GORDON
SONDLAND IS WHICH MAKES THE
CLAIM LOOK WEAK.
TO PARAPHRASE J-LO, DON’T BE
FOOLED BY THE BRIBES HE GOT,
HE’S STILL, HE’S STILL GORDON
FROM THE BLOCK AND ON GORDON’S
BLOCK PEOPLE ARE NOT BUILT FOR
DEFYING TESTIFIERS.
>>> JOINING US NOW TIM EDGAR, ADVISED UNDER PRESIDENT BUSH AND
SERVED ON THE OBAMA NATIONAL
SECURITY COUNCIL AND IS WITH THE
BROWN WATSON INTERNATIONAL AND
PUBLIC AFFAIRS.
PUBLIC AFFAIRS. THANKS FOR JOINING US.
>> SURE, GREAT TO BE HERE.
>> LET’S START WITH VERY SIMPLY
THIS MARIAH CAREY DEFENSE.
DOES IT WORK TO CLAIM YOU DON’T
KNOW OR DON’T REMEMBER SOMEONE
THAT YOU DO KNOW?
>> I DON’T THINK IT WORKS AT
ALL.
ALL. IT’S PRETTY CLEAR THAT
AMBASSADOR SONDLAND WAS KEY TO
THIS WHOLE SCHEME TO TRY TO
PRESSURE UKRAINE TO START THIS
INVESTIGATION.
INVESTIGATION. AND HE’S ONLY TURNED ON HIM
SINCE HE’S CHANGED HIS STORY TO
TELL THE TRUTH.
>> WHAT HAPPENS THEN?
IF SONDLAND COMES OUT AS
EXPECTED AND CONFIRMS A LOT OF
THIS STUFF, DO YOU STILL NEED
JOHN BOLTON IN THE SENSE OF
EVIDENCE OR IS THAT PRETTY
DEVASTATING BECAUSE HE WAS THE
POINT PERSON ON SOME OF THIS?
>> I THINK IT’S HELPFUL TO HAVE
JOHN BOLTON, BUT THE EVIDENCE IS
GETTING OVERWHELMING AT THIS
POINT.
POINT. WE HAVE THE CALL ITSELF.
THAT WAS VERY SUGGESTIVE, VERY
INCRIMINATING DESPITE WHAT TRUMP
SAYS ABOUT READING THE
TRANSCRIPT.
TRANSCRIPT. I READ IT, IT’S PRETTY DAMNING.
WE HAVE A LOT OF WITNESSES
COMING OUT SAYING YES, AND
ACTUALLY IT WAS A LITTLE BIT
WORSE THAN THIS.
THERE WAS CLEAR COMMUNICATION TO
THE UKRAINIAN OFFICIALS THAT
THEY HAD TO PLAY BALL ON THIS
INVESTIGATION OR THEY WEREN’T
GOING TO GET THEIR AID TO FIGHT
THE RUSSIANS.
THE RUSSIANS. AND JUST TO POINT OUT HOW
SERIOUS THAT IS.
THIS IS A NATIONAL SECURITY
ISSUE.
ISSUE. THIS IS NOT JUST KIND OF A
POLITICAL FOOTBALL THAT WE
SHOULD BE TREATING IN THAT WAY.
>> YOU’RE SAYING WHEN THE
PRESIDENT BASICALLY SEIZES OR
STEALS MILITARY INSTRUMENTS, IN
THIS CASE MILITARY FUNDING.
>> THAT’S RIGHT.
THIS ISN’T SELLING A SENATE
SEAT.
SEAT. THIS IS SELLING $400 MILLION IN
MILITARY AID TO A COUNTRY THAT’S
AN ALLY OF THE UNITED STATES AS
IT’S FIGHTING AGAINST THE
RUSSIANS.
RUSSIANS. >> I THINK YOU’RE REFERENCING
THE SELLING OF THE SENATE SEAT
IN ILLINOIS WHICH CAME UP
EARLIER IN THE SHOW.
VIEWERS REMEMBER THAT.
WHAT YOU’RE SAYING IS THAT THING
THAT PUT THAT POWERFUL
POLITICIAN, THAT GOVERNOR IN
JAIL, HE’S STILL INCARCERATED,
YOU’RE SAYING THIS THING TRUMP
DID, THE EVIDENCE SUPPORTS IT’S
WORSE THAN THAT.
>> TO ME IT’S WORSE BECAUSE
WE’RE TALKING ABOUT NATIONAL
SECURITY.
SECURITY. WE’RE TALKING ABOUT BASICALLY
SELLING THE NATIONAL SECURITY OF
THE UNITED STATES FOR A
POLITICAL FAVOR FOR A CORRUPT
POLITICAL MOTIVE.
POLITICAL MOTIVE. AND I REALLY DON’T SEE ANYTHING
MORE SERIOUS THAN THAT WHEN YOU
COME TO THE ISSUE OF BRIBERY OR
EXTORTION, SHAKEDOWN, WHATEVER
YOU WANT TO CALL IT.
>> YEAH, AND I WANT TO
UNDERSCORE WHAT WE’RE HEARING
FROM YOU IS YOUR VIEW
OBJECTIVELY ON THE ISSUES.
YOU’VE BEEN AT THE HIGHEST
LEVELS THERE INCLUDING IN THE
BUSH NATIONAL SECURITY TEAM.
>> THAT’S RIGHT.
>> SO, IT’S STRIKING HEARING
THAT FROM YOU.
I WANT TO PLAY A LITTLE BIT OF
THE OTHER CRITICISM OF SONDLAND
FROM -- NOT SONDLAND, OF THE
CASE THUS FAR WHICH IS SOME OF
THESE WITNESSES ONLY HAVE SECOND
HAND KNOWLEDGE.
HAND KNOWLEDGE. SONDLAND WOULD APPEAR TO BE
DIFFERENT THAN THAT.
TAKE A LOOK.
>> OFFICIALS ALARMED THAT THE
PRESIDENT’S ACTIONS WAS
TYPICALLY BASED ON SECOND HAND,
THIRD HAND, AND EVEN FOURTH HAND
RUMORS.
RUMORS. >> WE’VE GOT SIX PEOPLE HAVING
FOUR CONVERSATIONS IN ONE
SENTENCE AND YOU JUST TOLD ME
THIS IS WHERE YOU GOT YOUR CLEAR
UNDERSTANDING.
UNDERSTANDING. >> WE’RE NOT IN THE COURT,
GENTLEMAN, AND IF WE WERE THE
SIXTH AMENDMENT WOULD APPLY AND
SO WOULD THE RULES OF HEARSAY
AND OPINION.
AND OPINION. MOST OF YOUR TESTIMONIES
WOULDN’T BE ADMISSIBLE
WHATSOEVER.
WHATSOEVER. >> A, WHAT IS YOUR VIEW OF THE
GENERAL OBJECTION THAT SOME
PEOPLE ARE NOT FIRST HAND
WITNESSES TO EVERYTHING THEY’RE
DESCRIBING.
DESCRIBING. AND B, HOW WILL THIS SHIFT
BECAUSE EVEN IF PEOPLE FIND THAT
PERSUASIVE, SONDLAND WAS ON THE
CALL, IN THE ROOM, ET CETERA.
>> THAT’S EXACTLY RIGHT.
WE’RE GOING TO HEAR DIRECTLY
FROM SONDLAND.
FROM SONDLAND. THOSE WITNESSES THAT OVERHEARD
THE CONVERSATION, THAT’S NOT
HEARSAY.
HEARSAY. THAT’S THEIR DIRECT RECOLLECTION
OF WHAT TRUMP SAID.
THE TRANSCRIPT OF THE CALL FROM
JULY WHICH AS I SAY IS VERY
DAMNING, THAT’S CERTAINLY NOT
HEARSAY.
HEARSAY. WHAT WE HAVE IS A HUGE NUMBER OF
WITNESSES WHO ARE ALL SAYING THE
SAME THING.
SAME THING. SOME OF THEM ARE MORE
PERIPHERAL.
PERIPHERAL. SOME OF THEM ARE MORE CENTRAL.
BUT THE QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW,
WHERE’S THE OTHER SIDE?
THERE’S NO OTHER NARRATIVE HERE.
THERE’S NO OTHER EXPLANATION FOR
HOLDING UP THE MILITARY AID
OTHER THAN THE SIMPLE ONE WE’VE
ALREADY RECEIVED.
ALREADY RECEIVED. AND IN FACT WE’VE GOTTEN FROM
MULVANEY, FROM THE CHIEF OF
STAFF, ESSENTIALLY CONFIRMATION
OF THAT SAYING YEAH, OF COURSE
WE USE FOREIGN AID FOR POLITICAL
PURPOSES, GET OVER IT.
SO, I DON’T THINK THE HEARSAY
OBJECTION MATTERS WHEN YOU’VE
GOT SO MUCH OVERWHELMING
EVIDENCE FROM PEOPLE WHERE IT’S
DIRECT EVIDENCE AND WHERE IT’S
ALL POINTING IN THE SAME
DIRECTION.
DIRECTION. >> AND TIM, FINALLY, DID YOU
EVER THINK IN LAW SCHOOL YOU
WOULD BE DISCUSSING HEARSAY
OBJECTIONS ON THE GNASHNATIONAL
>> I DIDN’T.
IT’S A TERRIBLE TIME FOR OUR
COUNTRY.
COUNTRY. WE’VE HAD REAL PROBLEMS DURING
THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION, WAR IN
IRAQ, MAJOR ISSUES.
BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS WITH THIS
WE HAVE A CORRUPT PERSONAL
POLITICAL MOTIVE AND THAT’S WHY
I THINK YOU’RE SEEING NATIONAL
SECURITY EXPERTS AND OFFICIALS,
YOU KNOW, REGARDLESS OF THEIR
POLITICAL VIEWS OR AFFILIATION
JUST REACTING WITH A CERTAIN
AMOUNT OF HORROR HERE BECAUSE
THAT IS MISUSING THE NATIONAL
SECURITY SYSTEM FOR A CORRUPT
PERSONAL POLITICAL MOTIVE.
WE HAVEN’T SEEN THAT SINCE
WATERGATE, SINCE NIXON.
AND YOU KNOW, TO SEE THAT, YOU
KNOW, SORT OF DISMISSED AS IF
IT’S NOT IMPORTANT REALLY MAKES
A LOT OF PEOPLE PRETTY STEAMED.
>> A SOBERING ACCOUNT AND I KNOW
IT COMES FROM YOUR CONCERNS AND