IN LEADERSHIP IS UNDER SUCH
PRESSURE THAT THEY WOULD BEGIN
CONVERSATIONS ON THE TERMS THAT
KIM JONG UN HAS CONCEDED TO AT
THIS POINT.
LELAND: ASIA EXPERT INOPERATIVE
NUCLEAR SHOWDOWN NORTH KOREAN
TAKES ON THE WORLD, GORDON
CHANG, GOOD FRIEND OF THE
PROGRAM.
NICE TO SEE YOU AS ALWAYS.
THE NORTH KOREAN REGIME HAS
NOW.
>> PROBABLY THAT IS TRUE EXCEPT
AT THE END OF THE KOREAN WAR IN
1953.
RIGHT NOW WE DO KNOW THAT U.N.
SANCTIONS COMING U.S. SANCTIONS
HAVE SEVERELY CRIPPLED THE
REGIME.
THE MONEY FLOWS OR NOT THEY ARE.
HAVE SEEN, FOR INSTANCE, THAT
NUMBER 39, WHICH IS THE KIM
FAMILY SLUSH FUND IS RUNNING OUT
OF CASH.
AND SOUTH KOREANS SAY THAT THE
REGIME IN PYONGYANG IS NOT GOING
TO HAVE ANY MORE FOREIGN
CURRENCY RESERVES BY OCTOBER AT
THE CURRENT RATE OF DEFICIENT.
THAT IS A REAL INDICATION THE
SANCTIONS ARE WORKING ON THE
REASON WHY KIM JONG UN HAS COME
TO THE TABLE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE
HE WANTS THE SANCTIONS RELIEF.
TRUE AND YOU CAME TO THE TABLE
BEFORE.
LET'S DEAL WITH PERCENTAGES REAL
QUICK.
HANDICAPPING THE STUFF IS HARD.
THE CHANCE THAT NORTH KOREA
COMES OUT OF THIS AND PROMISES
TO GIVE UP THEIR NUCLEAR WEAPONS
IS WET?
>> AFTER SIX MONTHS THAT'S AN
85% CHANCE.
LELAND: 80, 85% CHANCE THEY WILL
DO IT.
WHAT IS THE CHANCE THEY WILL
FOLLOW THROUGH ON THAT PROMISE?
>> IS ACTUALLY PRETTY HIGH
ESPECIALLY PRESIDENT TRUMP
CONSISTS ON VERIFICATION.
THE ONLY WAY ANY DEAL WORK OF
NORTH KOREA IF THEY HAVE NO
CHOICE TO COMPLY.
WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN IT IN THOSE
PRIOR DEALS INCLUDING THE 1994
FRAMEWORK.
IF WE GET IT THIS TIME.
WE CAN BE SURE THEY WILL COMPLY
BECAUSE WE'VE GOT INSPECTORS
THERE.
>> WE ARE NO LONGER GOING TO
ABIDE BY THE DEAL COULD WE DID
THAT BEFORE IN 2006.
THEY DID IN 2009.
>> THE POOR TO DO THAT, WE WOULD
IMPOSE THE SANCTIONS AGAIN AND
PROBABLY IMPOSE A BLOCKADE.
ALL SORTS OF REASONS WHY I'M
SURE THAT'S WHAT HE WOULD LIKE
TO DO AND WHAT IS PLANNING TO
DO.
BUT THERE'S A LOT OF REASONS WHY
HE CAN'T DO THAT, ESPECIALLY OF
PRESIDENT TRUMP IS GOING TO USE
ALL THE ELEMENTS OF AMERICAN
POWER.
NOT ONLY AGAINST NORTH KOREANS,
LELAND: WELCOME TO TALK ABOUT
SENDING A MESSAGE TO CHINA
SPECIFICALLY.
THIS WAS IN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA
YESTERDAY OFTEN CALLED THOUSANDS
OF TONS OF AMERICAN POWER.
1000 POLLING INTO VIETNAM, WHICH
IS OFTEN NOW LOOK TO THE UNITED
STATES VIETNAM AS A
COUNTERWEIGHT TO CHINA.
THE CIA DIRECTOR HAS ASKED ON
"FOX NEWS SUNDAY" ABOUT CHINA.
THIS IS WHAT HE HAD TO SAY.
>> THIS ADMINISTRATION IS
PREPARED TO ENGAGE IN PUSHING
BACK AGAINST THE CHINESE THREAT
SO WE CAN HAVE A GOOD
RELATIONSHIP WITH CHINA AND AWAY
THE WORLD DESPERATELY NEEDS.
LELAND: CAN HAVE A GOOD
RELATIONSHIP WITH A GOOD
RELATIONSHIP WITH A COUNTRY
WHERE THEY VOTED TO GIVE THEIR
LEADER LIFELONG DICTATORSHIP?
>> THIS IS A PROBLEM BECAUSE SHE
SHOULDN'T HANG IS OFTEN COMPARED
TO NOW, BUT USING THE LANGUAGE
AND IMAGERY OF CHINA'S IMPERIAL
LEADERS WHO ACTUALLY THOUGHT
THAT THERE WAS ONLY ONE
SOVEREIGN STATE IN THE WORLD.
THAT WAS CHINA.
EVERYBODY ELSE WAS A TRIBUTARY.
THAT SETS UP AN EXISTENTIAL
CHALLENGE TO THE UNITED STATES.
XI JINPING HAS BEEN ATTACKING
DEMOCRACY ACROSS THE BOARD,
ESPECIALLY THE LAST YEAR OR SO.
IT'S VERY DIFFICULT.
THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN HAVE AN
ACCEPTABLE RELATIONSHIP WITH
THEM AS CIA OR POMPEO SAID, WE
PUSH BACK AT THEM SO THEY
REALIZE THEY ARE DEALING WITH A
DIFFERENT UNITED STATES ARE
MISSING OVER THE LAST FOUR
DECADES.
LELAND: CAN YOU PUSH BACK AT
THEM HARD AS YOU SAY AT THE SAME
TIME RELY ON THEM TO PUSH HARD
ON NORTH KOREA THAT WE WANT THEM
TO DO?
>> THE ONLY WAY TO GET THEM TO
HELP THE NORTH KOREANS TO IMPOSE
COSTS ON CHINA SO SEVERE THAT
THEY HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO
COMPLY.
LELAND: YOU SAY THAT AND WE'VE
BEEN ABOUT COSTS FOR A LONG
TIME.
WE HAVE A SANCTIONED CHINESE
BANKS AND WE HAVE AN SANCTIONED
CHINESE INDIVIDUALS.
WE HAVEN'T THREATENED TO DO THIS
THAN ARE THE MOST WE'VE DONE IS
PUT TARIFFS ON STEEL THAT THEY
EXPORT TO THE UNITED STATES,
WHICH IS A WHOPPING 2.2% OF
IMPORTED STEEL.
IT IS NOTHING.
>> AND IF HE WERE PRESIDENT
CHIANG COMING WITH THE BANK OF
CHINA UNPLUGGED FROM THE GLOBAL
FINANCIAL SYSTEM FOR DEVISING
AND OPERATING.
LELAND: WHY HAVEN'T WE DONE THAT
YET?
>> THERE'S A LOT OF STAKEHOLDERS
IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WHO
FEEL THAT WOULD ROCK THE
FINANCIAL MARKETS.
IF YOU FEEL IT POSES AN
EXISTENTIAL THREAT AS MOST
PEOPLE DO, THEN THE PRICE FOR
THAT IS UNPLUGGING CHINESE BANKS
AND UNPLEASANT CONVERSATIONS
WITH THE CHINESE LEADER.
THAT GETS US TO A MUCH BETTER
PLACE BECAUSE ALL OF THESE
THEORIES WE'VE HAD ABOUT DEALING
WITH CHINA WOULD SOUND GOOD TO
THE EAR.
IN FACT JUST HAVE NOT WORKED.
LELAND: NORTH KOREA AS AN