CONSIDERING THAT THE PENTAGON
SAYS THAT AS OF TODAY RUSSIAN
FORCES HAVE FULLY WITHDRAWN
FROM CHERNIHIV.
SO NOW THAT THE RUSSIAN TROOPS
ARE GONE, THE PRESS CAN FINALLY
GET A CLOSER LOOK.
BUT NO MATTER WITH THE WESTERN
PRESS FINDS, RUSSIAN PRICES
LIKELY READY TO SAY THAT WHAT
WE SEE WAS EITHER STAGED, OR
CARRIED OUT BY AN EXTREMIST
NAZI FACTION WITHIN UKRAINE.
SO HOW DOES THE WEST HELP
TACKLE THIS PROBLEM?
ESPECIALLY IF RUSSIA CAN JUST
CREATE ITS OWN REALITY OUT OF
WHOLE CLOTH AND TELL THEIR
PEOPLE WHATEVER THEY WANT?
JOINING US NOW IS A RUSSIAN
AMERICAN JOURNALIST WHO WORKED
AT THE RUSSIAN STATE RUN NEWS
AGENCY FROM 2009 TO 2012.
SHE ALSO BRINGS A UNIQUE
INSIGHT INTO WHAT IS GOING ON
INSIDE RUSSIA.
HER MOTHER IS CURRENTLY A
MEMBER OF THE DUMA, THE RUSSIAN
PARLIAMENT.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US
TONIGHT.
TALK TO ME ABOUT THIS.
DO YOU THINK THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE
ARE GOING TO BUY THE IDEA THAT
NEO-NAZI UKRAINIANS ARE TRYING
TO ENACT SOME SORT OF ANTI
RUSSIAN HOLOCAUST?
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
OF COURSE NOT ALL RUSSIAN
PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BUY THIS,
ARE BUYING IT, YOU DO SEE A
SMALL LITTLE MOMENT OF PEOPLE
STILL TRYING TO PROTEST IN THE
QUIETEST, MOST BRAVE WAYS THAT
THEY CAN CONSIDERING HOW
DANGEROUS IT IS TO DO THERE.
IN THAT SOCIETY RIGHT NOW, WE
SEE PEOPLE PUTTING CROSSES OUT
THERE IN ORDER TO HONOR THE
PEOPLE THAT WERE MASSACRED IN
BUCHA.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU HAVE
TO REALIZE THAT THERE IS AN
INFORMATIONAL VACUUM IN RUSSIA
RIGHT NOW THAT THE ONLY REAL
NEWS THAT MOST RUSSIANS ARE
SEEING, EXCEPT FOR THOSE WHO GO
OUT OF THEIR WAY TO GET A VPN
WHO ARE SEEKING OUT THAT
INFORMATION IS COMING FROM THE
OFFICIAL CHANNELS ON TV, ON
RADIO.
THOSE ARE THE CHANNELS THAT ARE
SPREADING THESE STORIES THAT
YOU ARE SHOWING.
THAT ARE TERRIFYING, AND ALSO
BAFFLING, AND HOW OUTRAGEOUS
AND ATLANTA IS THE LIES ARE
GETTING.
YET THESE ARE COMING FROM THE
OFFICIAL CHANNELS FROM THE
GOVERNMENT.
SO, A LOT OF RUSSIAN PEOPLE
WILL BELIEVE THEM, AND WILL BUY
INTO THEM.
THE OTHER THING IS, THE MORE
AND MORE YOU HEAR SOMETHING
REPEATED NO MATTER HOW UNTRUE
IT IS, YOU MIGHT START TO BUY
IT.
>> YEAH.
SO HELP ME UNDERSTAND THIS.
CERTAINLY IN AMERICA, WE KNOW
NO MATTER WHAT TYPE OF NEWS YOU
CONSUME, OR WHERE IT IS ON THE
POLITICAL SPECTRUM, YOU ARE
AWARE THAT THERE IS NEWS FROM
SOMEWHERE ELSE ON THE POLITICAL
SPECTRUM.
I AM ASSUMING THAT THAT IS
SIMILAR IN RUSSIA.
SO HOW ARE RUSSIAN PEOPLE BEING
SOLD ON THE IDEA THAT THERE WAS
AN INDEPENDENT PRESS THAT JUST
UP AND VANISHED?
>> I THINK EVERYTHING THAT YOU
ARE SEEING HERE HAS BEEN PART
OF A YEARS-LONG EFFORT.
WITHIN RUSSIA, BY PUTIN'S
REGIME, TO KIND OF NORMALIZE
AND PRIME THE RUSSIAN PUBLIC
FOR WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.
IT STARTS WITH JUST THIS THE
STALLED SHIP FOR WORLD WAR II,
PATRIOTISM, AND BRAVERY IN
RUSSIA.
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN
NURTURED.
THERE HAVE BEEN SOME VICTORY
DAY PARADES, ONE IS COMING UP
ON MAY 9TH IN RUSSIA, THAT HAS
SPAWNED THE COLLECTIVE MEMORY
OF WHAT IT WAS THAT THE SOVIET
PEOPLE DID DURING WORLD WAR II
TO FIGHT BACK NAZIS.
DON'T FORGET, 27 MILLION SOVIET
UNION RESIDENTS, OR PEOPLE,
WERE ESTIMATED TO HAVE DIED
DURING THAT CONFLICT.
MY GRANDPARENTS TOOK PART IN
IT.
EVERY RUSSIAN HAS SOME RELATIVE,
FAMILY MEMBER THAT THEY CAN
RELATE TO THERE.
IT IS A REAL MANIPULATION OF
THIS KIND OF COLLECTIVE MEMORY
TO USE THAT AND THEN START
BUILDING THIS NARRATIVE OF
NAZISM WITHIN THE UKRAINIAN
GOVERNMENT.
SO IT IS JUST THESE KIND OF
SLOW DROPS OF INFORMATION, OF
RESENTMENT AGAINST THE WEST,
THAT I THINK HAVE PRIMED PEOPLE
DISLOYALLY START NORMALIZING,
ACCEPTING THE DEHUMANIZING, AND
INCREASINGLY RADICAL
INFORMATION THAT THEY ARE
STARTING TO GET THERE.
I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU
NECESSARILY BREAK THROUGH IT.
AS I MENTIONED, THERE ARE STILL
PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE THIS.
PERHAPS IT IS A SCARY
ENVIRONMENT FOR THEM TO TALK
ABOUT IT.
BUT THEY ARE USING THE PIANOS,
THEY ARE ACCESSING OTHER
INFORMATION.
SO MANY YOUNG PEOPLE THAT HAVE
GROWN UP IN RUSSIA WITH ACCESS
TO THE INTERNET, WITH ACCESS TO
AN INDEPENDENT MEDIA, I DON'T
THINK THAT THEY ARE JUST GOING
TO FORGET THAT THAT EXISTED.
BUT HOW TO CREATE A POLITICAL
ENVIRONMENT WHERE PUTIN'S
REGIME CAN STILL BE STOPPED IN
THAT WAY, BY THOSE PEOPLE, I
THINK THAT IS A BIGGER QUESTION.
>> IT IS A BIG QUESTION.
WE THANK YOU FOR HELPING US AT