For decades,
live presidential debates
have been a campaign highlight.
Every TV network carries them.
Both nominees make their case
to the American people.
But this year,
that tradition is up in the air
as news organizations scramble
to make sure they happen again.
The question is just is the question
left?
Would you shut up?
That moment
four years ago, one of the 145 times
Donald Trump interrupted
during the first debate of 2020.
I think
the country would be better served
if we allowed both people
to speak with fewer interruptions.
I'm appealing to you, sir, to do that.
Well, and him, too.
Well, frankly,
you've been doing more interrupting.
That's a stark departure from the decorum
of the first televised
debate ever in 1960.
The things that Senator Kennedy has said
many of us can agree with, I think Mr.
Nixon is an effective
leader of his party.
Yet, despite the unseemly face offs
in the last cycle,
the worst president in America
has ever had.
Five major TV networks, including CNN,
have drafted a letter
urging both men to do it again,
saying there is simply no substitute
for the candidates
debating with each other on the trail.
Trump is demanding a rematch.
I'm calling on Crooked Joe
to debate any time, any place.
But Biden has been noncommittal.
It depends on his behavior.
They have given
Trump's behavior back in the 2020 debate,
which I remember
very vividly, and his penchant
for telling untruths.
How do you feel about the news
media pushing for debate?
Listen, I mean, they have to. Right?
This is a tradition
for news organizations to want to debate.
There are lots of eyeballs
that go into it.
But I think
we are trying to like draft normal
political forums and abnormal times
in an abnormal candidate.
Trump is a liar
and he's a conspiracy theorist as well.
And I think,
you know, news organizations
should consider maybe
maybe there shouldn't be debates
at this point,
given who Donald Trump is as a candidate.
Jonah, what do you think of that argument
that the networks,
by pushing for the debates,
are trying to normalize,
at least in one case, a candidate
who is anything but normal?
I understand.
They argue
it's not like it,
but it's not like he's
not able
to inject
conspiracy theories and craziness
into the public discourse.
He's the Republican nominee.
He's the former president on stage.
He has lots of venues
to be able to do that.
Look, I agree
there's no substitute
for presidential debates in the same way.
There's no substitute for a fight
between a monkey and a hawk.
I mean, it's like
there's nothing like it.
It doesn't necessarily mean
it actually
adds a lot to civic discourse
or understanding.
But it's the job of political journalists
to be in effect.
As David Broder said, fight promoters.
And this is that's just good box office.
So it doesn't surprise me
that the media wants it.
It's good box office,
but it is the time when most voters
actually tune in.
I mean, you see the numbers.
People really do.
And 80 million, 70, 80 million.
What gets those numbers
other than the Super Bowl anymore?
And this is the one.
Yeah,
but this is the one moment
where people really
are going to be focusing on
what these two people are saying.
And yes, is Trump wrangle proof?
Clearly not.
I mean, look what happened to Chris.
I mean, it's hard, you know,
but it is important that he
actually sit and debate.
I totally agree.
We should we
should be pushing for the debates
and the idea that,
like the news
media has to weigh in
to protect the American public
from what Donald Trump has to say
is what I think is coming up.
Wait, wait.
Nobody's saying
that we shouldn't air
the debates if they happen.
But, you know,
I guess to take David Broder's line
and it's a good line,
should we be promoter?
Should we be egging them on
and putting pressure on both sides,
The media should be for the debates,
like a clash between
the candidates is good.
More transparency,
more visibility
for the candidates is good.
And you got the debate host
people like us will have hours
to dissect all of the lies they tell. But
let me pick up here that idea
that like it's dangerous
for the public to hear
what Trump is clearly doing,
everything he can
to taunt Biden into a debate.
Here he is
on the campaign trail brazenly.
You can see
we have an empty podium
right here to my right.
You know what that is?
As for Joe Biden,
I'm trying to get him to debate.
So this is a different question.
Should Biden debate Trump?
So, okay,
it's pretty rich,
first of all, that Trump
is now talking about this
since he didn't debate anyone
during the primaries,
he avoided all of the primary debates.
So that is, I think, pretty pretty rich.
But I do think I do think
President Biden should debate
former President Trump.
I think it's what the country needs.
I do think it's good
that the media is pressing for this.
It is not normalizing.
I think there are certain
things that need to happen.
People are going to go to vote
for these people.
And I think
listening to them on the stage is me.
Ask Eliana about that.
This is a man, Donald Trump,
who faces four
criminal and charges cases.
This is a man who interfered
with a peaceful transfer of power.
I'm not talking about the media now.
I'm talking about Biden.
Why should the president
of the United States
engage and lend a platform
to Donald Trump?
Well, it's up to him.
I agree. It's a breath of fresh air.
You think he should or not?
President Biden can decide
whether he wants to debate.
Look, President Biden
benefited from debating
President Trump the last time.
So if I were him,
he doesn't call me for advice that often.
But if I were him, I would debate.
President Trump came in
way too hot the last time
when he debated Biden.
He didn't do that.
Well, if I were Biden,
I would not be afraid
of a debate with Trump. I would.
You know,
he usually is
older and more doddering
this time around, but like,
I didn't invite him the last time.
Trump did not do well.
I would say no.
If you're Biden, don't do it.
It sort of put.
I mean, the reason that Trump
didn't do it last time
because he didn't want to sort of elevate
of the candidates who were on the stage,
I would say Biden can nominate Biden.
Let me just say you, Bay,
and partly it's
because in a debate format,
you can't fact check lies
in the way that you could say
for an interview
if it's a one on one interview.
There are all sorts of ways
that you can do this,
like sort of back
to back townhalls or something
that hurt Trump last time.
It was his affect
and his like
manner that I think he came out
having damaged himself.
Like, I don't I don't really think.
BIDEN
We're in a different time
in terms of Trump's
lies, in terms
of the danger of Trump lies
in terms of the conspiracy theories
like 2020 was post
you know, he was pre January six
and it was pre big lie
and this is the era that we're in. So
let me ask you this.
I'm so sorry.
But Nia, let me just ask you this.
I mean,
Trump comes on to the onto the podium.
And do you think he's actually
going to be persuading people?
I mean, enough of this
has been injected into the bloodstream
that the people
that believe it, believe it,
and the people who don't.
I don't think that him coming out
talking about,
oh, no one will Biden debate Trump?
And two,
if he doesn't,
how damaging will it be to him to duck?
I think
it all depends on
how far ahead in the polls Biden gets.
If he's pretty far in the polls,
he won't.
If it's if it's got to be a Hail
Mary, he will.
I think Biden has more to gain
and more to lose.
There's just a higher risk
premium for him
given people's uneasiness about his age.
But on those lying stuff,
I just don't know.
It's not like Trump
doesn't get out lies anyway,
so you might as well
let the American people hear him
and adjudicate this.