IN, POSING A THREAT TO THE
COUNTRY’S GOVERNING SYSTEM.
JOINING ME NOW IS RETIRED
FOUR-STAR GENERAL JACK KEANE,
FOX NEWS SENIOR STRATEGIC
ANALYST.
GENERAL, GREAT TO SEE YOU.
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
FIRST, A GENERAL QUESTION ABOUT,
I GUESS, THE THE MORALE, FOR
HACK OF A BETTER WORD IN THE
MILITARY.
HOW HAS THE MILITARY BEEN
AFFECTED BY THAT WITHDRAWAL?
>> WELL, I THINK FOR THOSE WHO
SERVED, CERTAINLY,ST KIND OF
LIKE A GUT PUNCH X IT’S
SOMETHING THAT’S GOING TO STICK
WITH THEM FOR YEARS TO COME.
I MEAN, I WENT THROUGH AS AN
AIRBORNE INFANTRY COMMANDER IN
VIETNAM BECAUSE OF HOW THAT WAR
ENDED.
I’VE NEVER LET GO OF IT.
IT STILL BOTHERS ME TO DAY GIVEN
THE SACRIFICE WE WERE MAKING AND
MY TEAMMATES, ETC.
AND CERTAINLY THE SUFFERING OF
THE PEOPLE AS A RESULT OF IT.
I THINK THERE IS A DISTINCT
DIFFERENCE HERE THOUGH, AND IT’S
AN IMPORTANT ONE.
OUR TROOPS FOR THE 20 THE YEARS
IN AFGHANISTAN WE SENT THEM
THERE TO TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT
THE UNITED STATES WAS NOT GOING
TO BE ATTACKED BY al-QAEDA
AGAIN.
AND OUR TROOPS THERE FOR THOSE
20 YEARS, REGARDLESS OF ALL THE
POLICY DECISIONS THAT WERE
MISGUIDED, WHAT OUR TROOPS DID
IS PROTECTED THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
FOR THOSE 20 YEARS.
DAVID: YES.
>> AND WE’VE GOT TO FEEL GOOD
ABOUT THAT.
DAVID: YES.
>> AND OUR TROOPS SHOULD FEEL
GOOD ABOUT IT.
I UNDERSTAND HOW THEY FEEL.
I MEAN, HUMILIATION, FRUSTRATION
AND EMBARRASSMENT OF HOW THIS
HAPPENS LEAVES A LOUSY TASTE IN
THEIR MOUTH.
AND I UNDERSTAND IT.
AND I’M NOT TRYING TO REMOVE
THAT.
BUT WITH I AM TRYING TO TELL
THEM THAT, LISTEN, THEY DID WHAT
WAS CAN ASKED OF THEM, AND WE
KEPT AMERICA SAFE.
DAVE:ED YOU KNOW, MY MARINE SON
WAS THERE FOR A YEAR.
I ASKED HIM, HE FELT HERBAL
ABOUT WAY WITHDRAWAL HAPPENED.
IT DID STICK IN HIS CRAW, BUT AT
THE SAME TIME, HE SAID, YOU
KNOW, WHEN WE WERE THERE, WE
WERE HELPING THE INNOCENT, AND
WE WERE PUNISHING GUILTY.
WE WERE TRYING TO KILL AS
MEVILLE PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE AND
TRY THE -- MANY EVIL PEOPLE AS
POSSIBLE.
I FEEL GOOD ABOUT DOING THAT.
SO I THINK THAT’S YOUR POINT.
THERE’S IS STILL A LOT TO FEEL
GOOD ABOUT WHAT WE DID.
BUT THERE WAS A MESSAGE NOT ONLY
TO OUR MILITARY, BUT ALSO TO OUR
ENEMIES.
WHAT DO YOU THINK THE MESSAGE IS
TO OUR ENEMIES?
AND IS THERE A LONGSTANDING, ARE
WE GOING TO SUFFER PROBLEMS FROM
THAT FOR A LONG TIME TO COME?
>> OH, I THINK WE WILL.
AND I DON’T SAY THAT LIGHTLY.
I CERTAIN ARE HI DON’T WANT THAT
TO HAPPEN.
BUT I THINK THE EVIDENCE IS
PRETTY CLEAR, THE UNITED STATES
IS DIMINISHED AS A RESULT OF
THAT.
OUR JUDGMENT, OUR CONFIDENCE
WERE BROUGHT INTO QUESTION AND
ALSO OUR VALUES.
BECAUSE WE WALKED AWAY FROM
HUNDREDS OF AMERICAN CITIZENS
AND AFGHAN PARTNERS WHO WE LEFT
BEHIND, AND WE WITH JUST WALKED
AWAY FROM OUR ALLY WHO WE FOUGHT
SIDE BY SIDE WITH FOR 20 YEARS.
IF WE SURRENDERED THE COUNTRY TO
OUR ADVERSARIES, AND NOW THEY’RE
PROTECTING THE al-QAEDA, THE
VERY REASON WE WENT THERE IN THE
PARIS PLACE.
SO, YEAH, I MEAN, THIS LINGERS
ON.
OUR ENEMIES ARE EMBOLDENED BY
IT.
RUSSIA, UKRAINE, CHINA, TAIWAN,
THE IRANIANS AGGRESSIVE IN THE
MIDDLE EAST.
THAT’S NOT ACCIDENTAL.
DAVID: YEAH.
>> THAT’S AS A RESULT OF WHAT
THEY SEE AS AMERICAN WEAKNESS
AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE
ADVANTAGE OF THEM.
DAVID E DAVID AND SO MUCH OF IT
WAS PREVENTABLE.
WE JUST HAD OVER THE WEEKEND
FORMER CENTCOM COMMANDER FRANK
McKENZIE SPEAKING WITH OUR
JENNIFER GRIFFIN.
I JUST WANT TO PLAY A LITTLE BIT
OF WHAT HE SAID ABOUT THE WAY IT
ALL TOOK PLACE A YEAR AGO.
ROLL TAPE.
>> I ADVISED AGAINST
WITHDRAWING.
MY RECOMMENDATION AND MY
OPINION, AND IT REMAINS SO
TODAY, WAS WE HAD THE
OPPORTUNITY TO REMAIN IN THE
COUNTRY WITH A SMALL FORCE.
WE BELIEVE THAT KABUL WOULD PALL
IF WE PULL OUT OUR TROOPS, IT
WAS JUST A QUESTION OF WHEN
KABUL WOULD FALL.
AND WE HAD BEEN SAYING THAT A
REALLY SINCE THE FALL OF THE
YEAR BEFORE.
DAVID: SO BIDEN WAS GETTING
ADVICE, AND HE WASN’T TAKING IT.
>> YEAH.
MOST DEFINITELY.
I MEAN, WE DIDN’T HAVE A PERFECT
SITUATION IN AFGHANISTAN.
AND I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND WHY
SOME PEOPLE WANTED TO LEE.
TO LEAVE.
BUT WE HAD AN ACCEPTABLE
SITUATION.
IT WAS A STALEMATE.
THE THAT’LL BAN -- THE TALIBAN
COULD NOT DEFEAT THE GOVERNMENT
AND SECURITY FORCE, NOR COULD
THE AFGHAN GOVERNMENT AND
SECURITY FORCE DEFEAT TALIBAN.
AND AS A RESULT OF THAT, WE WERE
ABLE TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT THE
al-QAEDA AND ISIS WOULD NOT
RISE THE ON A THREAT AGAINST THE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
SO WE WERE ACCOMPLISHING OUR
MISSION IN A STALEMATED
SITUATION.
AND THAT’S WHAT McKENZIE’S
TALKING ABOUT HE WANTED TO
MAINTAIN THAT.
EVEN OUR ALLIES, THE NATO FORCES
WHO WERE THERE, THEY HAD 6,000
TROOPS THE THERE, WE HAD 2,500.
THEY WANTED TO STAY BECAUSE THEY
SAW ANYTIME IN THEIR NATIONAL
INTEREST TO PROTECT THEIR OWN
PEOPLE BY STAYING IN AFGHANISTAN
BECAUSE OF THAT THREAT.
CERTAINLY THE MILITARY, THE
INTELLIGENCE ADVISERS AND
FOREIGN POLICY ADVISERS ALL TOLD
THE PRESIDENT DON’T DO THIS,
BECAUSE THE TALIBAN CAN TAKE
OVER, AND THEN WE’RE DEALING
WITH THE VERY SITUATION WE HAD
FROM THE BEGINNING.
NOW, THE TALIBAN, I MEAN, THE
al-QAEDA IS NOT THE al-QAEDA
OF 9/11, THAT’S FOR SURE,
BECAUSE WE WERE THERE MAKING
CERTAIN THAT DIDN’T HAPPEN.
BUT THE POTENTIAL FOR THEM TO
GROW AND THRIVE URN THE
PROTECTION OF -- UNDER THE
PROTECTION OF THE TALIBAN,
THAT’S REAL.
DAVID AIRED YEAH.
>> AND THAT IS THE CONCERN THAT
EVERYBODY HAS.
DAVID: AND EVEN THOUGH WE GOT
ZAWAHIRI, IT DOES SEEM LIKE THE
TERROR NETWORKS ARE INCREASING
THERE.
VERY QUICKLY, GENERAL, WE DON’T
HAVE ANY -- MUCH TIME LEFT, BUT
MIKHAIL GORBACHEV DIED TODAY.
YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT HIS ROLE IN
SOCIETY AND HIS ROLE IN THE END
OF COLD WAR.
>> WELL, I THINK HE WAS A
VISIONARY WHO CAME TO GRIPS IN
VERY PRAGMATICALLY WITH THE FACT
THAT THE COMMUNIST SYSTEM WAS
FAILING, IT WAS CRUMBLING.
THE ECONOMIC SYSTEM THAT WAS
SUPPORTING IT COULD NO LOCKER
THRIVE, AND -- LONGER THRIVE,
AND HE SAW NO FUTURE IN IT
WHATSOEVER.
SO HE TRIED TO OPEN UP HIS
SOCIETY WITH GLASNOST AND
PERESTROIKA AND CUT A DEAL WITH
REAGAN TO DO SOMETHING BETTER
FOR HIS PEOPLE.
AND THE SOVIET UNION DID
COLLAPSE.
I DON’T THINK THAT WAS HIS
INTENT, BUT IT DID COLLAPSE.
DAVID: YEAH.
>> YOU KNOW, AS A RESULT OF IT.
DAVID: ALTHOUGH --
>> TEN YEARS LATER WE GOT PUTIN.
DAVID: YEAH.
I TEND TO THINK HE GETS MORE
CREDIT THAN HE DESERVES BECAUSE
YOU HAD THAT TRIUMVIRATE OF POPE
JOHN PAUL II, RONALD REAGAN AND
MAGGIE THATCHER.
THAT TRIUMVIRATE WAS, I THINK,
THE REAL PIVOTAL FORCE IN ENDING
THE COLD WAR WITH, DON’T YOU?
>> OH, YEAH.
AND ALSO GEORGE H.W. BUSH IN
TERMS OF HOW HE WAS HANDLING --
DAVID: YEAH, THAT’S TRUE.
>> -- THE COLLAPSE OF THE SOVIET
UNION AS WELL AND TO MAKE
CERTAIN THAT WE WEREN’T RUBBING
THEIR NOSES IN ALL OF THIS --
DAVID: GOOD POINT.
>> -- AND MAKING THE SITUATION
WORSE, YOU KNOW, IN OUR VICTORY.
WE HAD VERY SIGNIFICANT LEADERS
ON WORLD STAGE AT THAT FINAL,
AND THE AMERICAN LEADERSHIP --
AT THAT TIME, AND THE AMERICAN
LEADERSHIP WAS OUT FRONT,
CERTAINLY, IN DOING ALL THIS AND
DESERVES A HUGE AMOUNT OF
CREDIT.
DAVID: YEAH.
YEAH.
MAKES YOU REALIZE HOW FAR WE’VE
COME NOTES INLY IN THE RIGHT
DIRECTION SINCE THEN.