A PENNSYLVANIA, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA LAW PROFESSOR HAS
BEEN PUNISHED FOR HER STATEMENTS ABOUT BLACK STUDENTS.
SHE SAID,
SHE ORIGINALLY PENNED AN OP-ED WHICH THROUGH SOME CONTROVERSY.
SHE WENT ON A, SHE'S GOT TO DO A TALK SHOW TO CLARIFY HER
REMARKS.
HERE'S WHAT SHE SAID.
I DO NOT THINK I'VE EVER SEEN A BLACK STUDENT GRADUATE IN THE
TOP QUARTER OF THE CLASS AND RARELY, RARELY IN THE TOP HALF.
I CAN THINK OF ONE OR TWO STUDENTS WHO HAVE SCORED IN THE
TOP HALF IN MY REQUIRED FIRST-YEAR COURSE.
WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO ABOUT THAT?
YOU ARE PUTTING IN FRONT OF THIS PERSON A REAL UPHILL BATTLE AND
IF THEY WERE BETTER MATCHED, IT MIGHT BE A BETTER ENVIRONMENT
FOR THEM.
THAT IS THE MISMATCH HYPOTHESIS OF COURSE.
WE'RE NOT
SAYING THEY SHOULDN'T GO TO COLLEGE.
WE'RE NOT SAYING THAT.
SOME OF THEM SHOULDN'T.
DO YOU HAVE A RACIAL DIVERSITY MANDATE FOR LAW
REVIEW APPOINTEES AT PENN?
YES.
YOU ARE TELLING ME THAT STUDENTS OF COLOR WHO HAVE
SERVED ON LAW REVIEW ARE PRETTY MUCH IN THE BOTTOM HALF OF
THEIR LAW CLASSES AT PENN?
FROM WHAT I KNOW, I HAVEN'T IN THE SURVEY.
I HAVEN'T DONE A
SYSTEMATIC STUDY.
I AM TALKING ABOUT WHO GETS THE HONORS.
I
HAVE A BIG CLASS OF 89, 95 STUDENTS EVERY YEAR SO I SEE A
BIG CHUNK OF STUDENTS EVERY YEAR, SO I AM GOING ON THAT
BECAUSE A LOT OF THIS DATA IS OF COURSE A CLOSELY GUARDED
SECRET, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE.
SO WHAT WAS THE FALLOUT OF THAT, ACCORDING TO WASHINGTON
POST:
SHE WILL NO LONGER BE TEACHING REQUIRED COURSES FOR ALL
STUDENTS TO TAKE.
IT KIND OF CONFUSES ME BECAUSE WHAT SHE SAID MIGHT
SUCK, BUT FIRST OF ALL, WERE STATS, BECAUSE I THINK SHE
PROVIDED SOME STATS IN THE STORY, THEY WERE TRYING TO
FIGURE OUT
WHETHER THEY WERE CORRECT OR NOT.
IF SHE'S JUST PROVIDING
STATS, ARE WE SHOOTING THE MESSENGER?
THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION BECAUSE IN THE BEGINNING I ASKED
THE SAME THING.
I REMEMBER READING THIS HEADLINE YESTERDAY
GOING
IT TOTALLY DEPENDS.
IT DEPENDS ON IF SHE IS SAYING I THINK THAT
AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDENTS ARE NOT FINISHING IN THE TOP HALF OF
THE CLASS AND I THINK WE SHOULD FIND WAYS TO FIX THAT.
HERE IS
SOME OF THE ISSUES AND HERE IT MAY BE MORE HELP WE CAN GET, NOT
JUST NECESSARILY FOR AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDENTS BUT
FOR STUDENTS WHO CAME FROM A POOR SOCIOECONOMIC BACKGROUND TO
HAVE SOME CATCHING UP TO DO TO THE KIDS WENT TO PRIVATE
SCHOOLS, ETC.
SO I WAS REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO READING TO
SEE WHICH ONE IT IS, BUT GINA, IN HER CASE IT DOES NOT SEEM
THAT IS THE DIRECTION SHE WENT.
LET ME EXPLAIN WHY.
FIRST LESSON OF THE IRONY.
SHE IS STILL GOING TO TEACH CLASSES
IN
HER AREA OF EXPERTISE WHICH IS SOCIAL WELFARE LAW AND POLICY.
I AM NOT SURE, NOW THAT I'VE READ INTO HER BACKGROUND I'M NOT
SURE SHE CARES A LOT ABOUT THAT.
IF SHE DOES, SHE IS A CURIOUS WAY
OF SHOWING IT.
BY THE WAY, ANOTHER COMMENT THAT COULD START
OUT AS AN INTERESTING TOPIC, ESPECIALLY ON THE CAMPUS TO HAVE
A DISCUSSION AROUND, SHE SAID ALL CULTURES ARE NOT EQUAL.
I
ACTUALLY AGREE WITH THAT AND WE TALKED ABOUT IT A LOT ON THE
SHOW BUT IF YOU MEAN ACTUAL CULTURES AND PORTIONS OF
CULTURES AS OPPOSED TO RACES AND TO BE FAIR TO HER, AND WE WILL
SEE IF YOU THINK THIS IS FAIR OF NOT BECAUSE I'M JUST GOING TO
QUOTE HER.
SHE SAYS THERE'S PROBLEMS WITH SOME CULTURES OF
WORKING-CLASS WHITES, RAP CULTURE OF INNER CITY BLACKS,
AND ANTI-ASSIMULATION IDEAS AMONG HAS HISPANIC IMMIGRANTS
THAT ARE DESTRUCTION TO AMERICAN TOMOGRAPHY.
SO IT SEEMS LIKE
SHE HAS AN ISSUE WITH POOR PEOPLE OVERALL AND IN FACT, SHE
SAYS THAT WE SHOULD RETURN TO THE 1950S POSTURE OF CELEBRATING
BOURGEOIS CULTURE.
SHE SAID THAT OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
BOURGEOIS CULTURE IS GREAT.
OKAY, BUT CAN WE GIVE EVERYONE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REACH IT?
THAT'S A DIFFERENT CONVERSATION BUT SHE DID NOT LEAVE IT AT
THAT.
SHE ALSO TALKED ABOUT HOW ACADEMICS THE MEDIA AND
HOLLYWOOD HAVE TO RELINQUISH MULTICULTURAL GRIEVANCE
POLEMICS, SO MEANING MINORITIES THAT ARE COMPLAINING SHOULD
BASICALLY SHUT UP ABOUT IT AND SHE WENT ON TO SAY THAT, "EVERY
ONE WANTS TO GO TO COUNTRIES RULED BY WHITE EUROPEANS," AND,
"I
DON'T SHRINK FROM THE WORD SUPERIOR."
WHEN YOU SAY THAT
YOU ARE FOR SUPREMACY YOU CANNOT BLAME PEOPLE FOR SAYING
THAT YOU ARE FOR SUPREMACY.
THERE IS A DIFFERENT WORD THAT
TOO, IT IS CALLED RACIST.
LOOK, RACIST IS A SUPER LOADED WORD.
I WISH YOU WERE A MORE NUANCED INTELLECTUAL THAT COULD
ENGAGE AN INTERESTING CONVERSATION RATHER THAN
WHITE PEOPLE ARE AWESOME, DON'T YOU WANT TO GO TO THEIR
COUNTRIES AND THEY'RE SUPERIOR TO YOU.
AND THERE ARE MORE NUANCED ACADEMICS WHO ARE APPOINTED TO
THESE
AND ONE OF US WAS A BLACK PROFESSOR AT YALE NAMED RICHARD
BROOKS WHO CALLED IT A REAL AND SERIOUS PROBLEM BUT HE ALSO
CALLED IN EDUCATORS TO BE INVOLVED IN FINDING THE SOLUTION
AND I THINK THAT IS PART OF WHAT YOU WERE SAYING, WHEN YOU HAVE A
TEACHER LIKE THIS WHO IS MAKING THESE KINDS OF COMMENTS, RACIAL
BIAS AND GRADING COMES TO MIND AND HE CALLS INTO QUESTION HER
INTEGRITY AS A PROFESSOR, WHETHER SHE CAN FULLY DO THAT
FAIRLY.
ALSO SOCIOECONOMIC SITUATIONS THAT MIGHT PUT
MINORITY STUDENTS AT A DISADVANTAGE, AND WE KNOW THAT
THE DEBT, IT AFFECTS MINORITY STUDENTS DIFFERENTLY THAN IT
AFFECTS WHITE STUDENTS AND ALSO THERE IS THE SOCIAL CAPITAL AND
THE MINORITY STUDENTS NOT HAVING ROLE MODELS IN THEIR LIVES WHO
CAN WALK THEM THROUGH SOME OF THE CHALLENGES OF LAW SCHOOL AND
SHOW THEM WHAT THE IMAGE OF A SUCCESSFUL LAWYER, SOMEONE WHO
WORKS IN THE LEGAL PROFESSION LOOKS LIKE, SO I THINK, IT IS
JUST A WAY OF OVERSIMPLIFYING, WHICH IS WHAT PEOPLE LIKE HER,
PROVOCATIVORS ON THE RIGHT LIKE TO DO.
SOMEONE ONLINE CALLED HER THE ANN COULTER OF THE ACADEMIC
WORLD WHICH I THOUGHT WAS PRETTY APPROPRIATE.
YEAH, LATER ON IN THE INTERVIEW SHE DOES GO THROUGH
THE KINDS OF SITUATIONS AND SCHOOLS THAT SHE WOULD ENDORSE
AND SHE ENDORSES ONE THING THAT GETS CLOSER TO CHANGING
OUTCOMES TO MAKE PEOPLE MORE EQUAL AND IT IS NO EXCUSES
SCHOOLS WHICH IS LIKE.
I WOULDN'T DO WELL THERE.
I'VE JUST BEEN READING UP ON THIS AND I
HAVE NOT BEEN TO ANY OF THESE SCHOOLS BUT I DID FIND AN OP-ED
FROM SOMEONE AT THE EDUCATION SCHOOL AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
PENNSYLVANIA THAT SAID THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR NO EXCUSE SCHOOLS
AND IT IS THE KIND OF SCHOOLS WHERE KIDS HAVE A LANYARD AROUND
THEIR NECK WITH A CARD ON IT SO THAT TEACHERS WHO THINK THAT
THOSE KIDS ARE ACTING POORLY CAN GO UP AND JUST WRITE A
DEMERIT ON YOUR CARD.
IT SAYS THAT FROM THE TIME THE KIDS WAKE
UP TO WHEN THEY GO TO SLEEP THEIR BEHAVIOR IS BEING JUDGED
AND THE
CRITICISM FROM THIS PERSON AT THE EDUCATION INSTITUTE FOR THE
EDUCATION DEPARTMENT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA SAID
IT IMMEDIATELY TREATS KID AT THOSE SCHOOLS AS LESS THAN.
AS
CRIMINALS.
THEY'RE INMATES.
THEY ARE INMATES FROM THE MOMENT THEY
WAKE UP TO THE MOMENT THEY GO TO SLEEP AND PEOPLE LIKE AMY WAX
WOULD SAY, IT GIVES THEM STRUCTURE AND YOU JUST SEE
EVERYWHERE SHE STARTS TALKING ABOUT A
STRUCTURE.
STRUCTURE BECAUSE THEY ARE BLACK, BECAUSE THEY ARE
LATINO, BECAUSE, AND SHE SAYS THIS EXPLICITLY, THEY WON'T
ASSIMILATE TO AMERICAN CULTURE AND THEIR FAMILIES ARE BROKEN.
THESE ARE ASSUMPTIONS THAT SHE MAKES IN SOMETHING THAT THE DEAN
OF STUDENTS HIMSELF EVEN BROUGHT UP IF
WE GO TO GRAPHIC 35.
HE
SAID:
I WANT TO SAY WHETHER THE THING THAT IS FACTUAL.
TO
GINA'S POINT, SHE DISPUTED FACTS AND HAD AN
INTERESTING CONVERSATION AROUND IT, THAT IS FULL, PRODUCTIVE,
INTERESTING BUT SHE DID NOT EVEN GET HER FACTS RIGHT.
WHEN SHE SAID
IN THAT LITTLE SNIPPET THAT WE SAW THAT THERE IS A DIVERSITY
REQUIREMENT FOR PENN LAW REVIEW, THE DEAN CAME OUT AND SAID NO,
THERE ISN'T.
SHE JUST MADE THAT UP.
ONLY THE PEOPLE WHO SCORE
AT THE TOP MAKE IT INTO THE LAW REVIEW, SO IT IS JUST NOT TRUE.
IT IS AN HOUR LONG INTERVIEW WHICH IS FASCINATING, YOU SHOULD
WATCH IT IF YOU LIKE MASOCHISM.
ANYWAY, SHE GOES INTO THIS
PREVALENCE OF IDENTITY POLITICS AND A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE
MENTIONED THAT IN THE RECENT ELECTION, IDENTITY POLITICS IS A
HOT BUTTON ISSUE BUT SHE THINKS THAT IDENTITY POLITICS
FETISHIZES
RESOURCES AND WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO WHY, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
TALKING ABOUT THE IDENTITY POLITICS SHE IS MENTIONING, THEY
ARE JUST IDENTIFYING PROBLEMS.
SHE DOES NOT WANT TO IDENTIFY
THE ACTUAL PROBLEMS AND THE CAUSES AND HOW TO FIX THEM, SHE
JUST ALWAYS SEEMS TO FUNNEL THINGS BACK INTO THIS, DON'T ASK
WHAT WE CAN DO TO HELP YOU, HELP YOURSELF.
USED IN SO MANY WAYS BY WHITE SUPREMACISTS EVERYWHERE.
DO YOU BELIEVE, JUST TO SORT OF KEEP THIS SUPER
ACCOUNTABLE AND AS BEN HAS CALLED ME BEFORE, WILLFULLY
OBTUSE WHICH I APPRECIATED.
DO YOU BELIEVE SHE IS A WHITE SUPREMACIST?
YES, BY THE DEFINITION OF IT.
BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN ON THE NEWS MANY TIMES AND
IMMIGRANTS DO GO TO GERMANY AND DENMARK.
THEY'RE ACADEMICS.
THAT IS AN ACADEMIC THING AND I KNOW
ACADEMICS, TEACHERS, PROFESSORS WHO BEEN DOING IT FOR 50 YEARS
WHO ARE LIKE, WELL, HERE ARE THE STATISTICS AND SOME OF THEM JUST
LEAVE THEM AS STATISTICS.
THE OTHERS JUST PULL EVERYTHING
TOWARD THIS THEORY THEY'VE BEEN WORKING ON FOR YEARS, THIS BOOK
THEY'VE BEEN WRITING FOR 40 YEARS AND THAT IS THE LENS
THROUGH WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN TAUGHT TO SEE EVERYTHING AND IT
IS A WORK IN THE PREVIOUS THREE WE TALKED ABOUT.
PEOPLE IN ARKANSAS PULLED SO THE LENS WHERE THEY TYPICALLY
SEE THINGS AND IT IS A SHAME IN ACADEMICS BECAUSE IN
ACADEMICS AND YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE LOOKING AT THE FACTS,
AND LETTING THAT DRIVE THE DISCUSSION.
I WANT TO MAKE A COUPLE OF POINTS ABOUT WHAT YOU SAID
BECAUSE IT IS AN INTERESTING POINT THAT SHE IS LIKE, PEOPLE
ARE GOING TO WHITE EUROPEAN COUNTRIES, BUT THAT IS AN
ECONOMIC ISSUE.
FOR EXAMPLE, THERE ARE A LOT OF IMMIGRANTS
WHO COME TO TURKEY.
I USE TURKEY HAS AN EXAMPLE FROM TIME
TO TIME BECAUSE I'M A TURKISH AMERICAN.
WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THAT?
OH.
THERE IMMIGRANTS IN THE MIDDLE EAST.
THEY THINK TERSE OF THE SUPERIOR RACE, I'M SURE
TURKS THINK THAT.
THAT IS NOT WHY THEY COME.
TURKEY IS SLIGHTLY
BETTER OFF ECONOMICALLY THAN THE COUNTRIES THEY CAME FROM AND
THEY CAN MAKE IT TO TURKEY AND THEY'RE LIKE, OKAY, GREAT.
AND
THAT IS WHERE THEY COME.
IT DOES NOT HAVE TO DO WITH RACE,
ETC.
LOOK, IF YOU GO REALLY BACK IN HISTORY AS TO WHY THE
EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ARE BETTER OFF ECONOMICALLY AND SO IS
JAPAN, FOR EXAMPLE.
IT IS PARTLY BECAUSE OF THE RAIDING
CULTURE.
THEY RAIDED THE SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE, NOT
RELATED TO RACE, SO DID JAPAN AND SO DID THE MONGOLS.
THEY WERE
KNOWN FOR RAIDING AND FOR THE MOMENT BEING, THE MONGOLS WERE
INCREDIBLY RICH WHEN THEY TOOK OVER THOSE AREAS.
THAT IS PART
OF WHY PEOPLE IMMIGRATE TO THERE AND IS SHE A WHITE SUPREMACIST?
CONSERVATIVES MAKE US CALL THEM RACIST FROM TIME TO TIME BY
BEING SO RACIST.
THOSE ARE LOADED TERMS AND WHITE
SUPREMACY, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE GET TURNED OFF.
THEY HEAR THAT
WORD AND THEY WANT TO RUN FOR THE HILLS BUT IN HER CASE SHE
LITERALLY SAID WE ARE SUPERIOR.
YOU COULD SAY HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT?
SHE DID NOT MEAN WHITE PEOPLE, SHE MEANT RICH PEOPLE.
OKAY,
FINE, BUT I DO NOT KNOW THAT THAT MAKES IT THAT MUCH BETTER
DESIGNED SOME WAYS IT MIGHT MAKE IT WORSE BECAUSE SHE JUST HAS
DISDAIN FOR ANYONE WHO ISN'T ALREADY WEALTHY AND IT IS
SICKENING.
WHEN SHE LOOKS AT A WHITE KID FROM THE HOLLOWS OF
WELL WEST VIRGINIA AND SHE THINKS YEAH, I AM SUPERIOR.
RAY?
THOSE TERMS ARE TOUGH, JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE SO LOADED RIGHT
NOW, SO I DON'T KNOW THAT I'M GOING TO GO THERE BUT I AM GOING
TO SAY THAT HER CREDIBILITY IS ABSOLUTELY CALLED INTO QUESTION
AT THIS POINT.
IF YOU ARE A BLACK STUDENT IN HER CLASS, HOW
CAN YOU TRUST THAT SHE IS GOING TO TREAT YOU FAIRLY?
I THINK THE
UNIVERSITY ACTUALLY HANDLED IT PRETTY WELL AND I THINK THAT
THEY DID WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE.
I DO NOT KNOW THE SHE
SHOULD BE BANNED FROM CAMPUS FOR SHARING THESE VERY CONTROVERSIAL
VIEWS BECAUSE I THINK THAT PLAYS INTO THE PLAYBOOK THAT THESE
PEOPLE ON THE FAR RIGHT WANTS, THAT IS SECOND WITH A 1.
AND BEYOND THAT, SHE IS TENURED AND TENURED IS TENURED
AND WE HAVE TO STICK WITH THAT FOR IMPORTANT REASONS BUT
LASTING TO CHALLENGE HER FACTS IN HER VIEW OF THE WORLD, HAS
ANYONE EVER TRACKED HOW HERITAGE, NOT HERITAGE,
LEGACY STUDENTS DO IN THESE COLLEGES?
BECAUSE THEY ARE FILLED TO THE RIM WITH LEDGES LEGACY STUDENT.
THEY ARE THEIR PARENTS WENT TO THE SCHOOL SO I READ A STUDY
RECENTLY THE 40% OF HARVARD STUDENTS ARE LEGACY STUDENTS.
THAT IS ACTUALLY THE BIGGEST AFFIRMATIVE ACTION THERE IS IN
THE REASON THEY DO THIS FOR MONEY.
THE BIGGEST INDICATOR OF
WHETHER YOU WILL DONATE TO SCHOOLS OF TWO GENERATIONS OF
YOUR FAMILY GONE TO THE SCHOOL SO IT IS ALL ABOUT FINANCIAL
MOTIVATIONS.
I WOULD BE REALLY SURPRISED IF YOU TRACK LEGACY
STUDENTS, IF THEY DIDN'T WAY UNDERPERFORM BECAUSE THEY DID
NOT EARN THEIR WAY INTO THE SCHOOL LIKE THE OTHER 60% OF
HARVARD THE NOBODY EVER TRACKED THAT BECAUSE THE ASSUMPTION IS
RICH PEOPLE ARE GREAT, POOR PEOPLE HAVE SOMETHING WRONG WITH
THEIR CULTURE.