>>> HERE IS MORE FROM TODAY’S INSPECTOR GENERAL’S REPORT ON
THE PSYCHOLOGICAL AND EMOTIONAL
TRAUMA SUFFERED BY MIGRANT
CHILDREN IN TRUMP ADMINISTRATION
CUSTODY AT THE SOUTHERN BORDER.
A PROGRAM DIRECTOR AT ONE OF THE
FACILITIES TOLD THE INSPECTOR
GENERAL, THE LITTLE ONES DON’T
KNOW HOW TO EXPRESS WHAT THEY
ARE FEELING, WHAT HAS HAPPENED.
COMMUNICATION IS LIMITED AND
DIFFICULT.
DIFFICULT. THEY NEED MORE ATTENTION.
WE’RE JOINED NOW BY ONE OF THE
FEW PEOPLE WHO HAS BEEN INSIDE
THE PLACES WHERE THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION IS HOLDING
CHILDREN IN CUSTODY AT THE
SOUTHERN BORDER.
SOUTHERN BORDER. NICOLE AUSTIN-HILLERY IS A
LAWYER WHO HAS BEEN REPRESENTING
THE INTERESTS OF THESE CHILDREN
FOR YEARS.
FOR YEARS. AND SO IT IS ONLY THROUGH THE
POWERS OF THE COURT THAT SHE HAS
BEEN ALLOWED TO GAIN THIS
PRECIOUS ACCESS TO THESE
CHILDREN AND SHARE WITH US ONCE
AGAIN TONIGHT WHAT SHE HAS FOUND
IN THESE VISITS WITH THESE
CHILDREN.
CHILDREN. JOINING US NOW IS NICOLE
AUSTIN-HILLERY, THE EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR OF U.S. PROGRAMS FOR
HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING
US AGAIN TONIGHT.
AND I READ PORTIONS OF THIS
REPORT, AND THEY ARE QUOTES,
THEY’RE REAL THINGS FROM PEOPLE
WHO ARE WORKING INSIDE.
AND YET THEY ARE SO OBVIOUS AND
WE COULD HAVE ALL PREDICTED THAT
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT LITTLE
CHILDREN WOULD BE FEELING.
>> LAWRENCE, IT’S COMMON SENSE.
IF YOU TAKE A CHILD FROM HIS OR
HER PARENT, THERE’S GOING TO BE
A REACTION.
A REACTION. AND THAT REACTION IS USUALLY
GOING TO BE NEGATIVE.
WHEN YOU TAKE A CHILD TO SCHOOL
ON THE VERY FIRST DAY, FOR THE
VERY FIRST TIME, AND YOU
SEPARATE THEM FROM THEIR PARENT,
OFTENTIMES CHILDREN CRY.
WE KNOW THAT IS STANDARD.
SO WHAT DOES THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION THINK WOULD
HAPPEN IF YOU TAKE CHILDREN WHO
ARE FROM ANOTHER NATION, BRING
THEM TO A STRANGE NEW PLACE, AND
TAKE THEM AWAY INTERESTFROM THEI
PARENTS?
PARENTS? YOU WILL GET THE RESULTS THAT
THE INSPECTOR GENERAL’S REPORT
DOCUMENTED.
DOCUMENTED. YOU WILL HAVE CHILDREN THAT ARE
INCONSOLABLE, THAT CRY
UNCONTROLLABLY, THAT ARE
FRIGHTENED, AND THAT ARE IN HERE
FOR THEIR OWN LIVES, WHO HAVE NO
IDEA WHAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN TO
THEM OR WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO
THEIR PARENTS.
THEIR PARENTS. THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH WHAT I
SAW WHEN VISITING THE DETENTION
FACILITY IN CLINT.
I HAD CHILDREN THAT I SPOKE TO
WHO CRIED UNCONTROLLABLY, WITH
WHOM I COULD BARELY CARRY ON A
CONVERSATION, BECAUSE THEY WERE
AFRAID, LAWRENCE.
AFRAID, LAWRENCE. AND THEY HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS
ABOUT TO HAPPEN TO THEM AND WHAT
THEY COULD EXPECT FROM DAY TO
DAY.
DAY. >> I WANT TO GO BACK TO
SOMETHING I MENTIONED AND QUOTED
IN THE PREVIOUS SEGMENT THAT’S
ON PAGE 11 OF THE INSPECTOR
GENERAL’S REPORT.
GENERAL’S REPORT. AND THIS IS THE INSPECTOR
GENERAL NOW JUST DELIVERING WHAT
A PROGRAM DIRECTOR HAS TOLD THE
INSPECTOR GENERAL.
INSPECTOR GENERAL. AND IT IS THIS.
I’M GOING TO READ IT AGAIN.
IT’S A 7 OR 8-YEAR-OLD BOY WHO
WAS SEPARATED FROM HIS FATHER
WITHOUT ANY EXPLANATION AS TO
WHY THE SEPARATION OCCURRED.
THE CHILD WAS UNDER THE DELUSION
THAT HIS FATHER HAD BEEN KILLED
AND BELIEVED THAT HE WOULD ALSO
BE KILLED.
BE KILLED. THIS CHILD ULTIMATELY REQUIRED
EMERGENCY PSYCHIATRIC CARE TO
ADDRESS HIS MENTAL HEALTH
DISTRESS.
DISTRESS. AND NICOLE, WHAT I’M STRUCK BY
THERE IS THE WORD "DELUSION."
I’M NOT SURE WHY THAT WOULD BE A
DELUSION.
DELUSION. IT SEEMS LIKE A PERFECTLY
REASONABLE POSSIBILITY IN THAT
CHILD’S LIFE EXPERIENCE, THAT
HIS FATHER HAS BEEN KILLED, AND
A PERFECTLY REASONABLE FEAR THAT
HE COULD BE KILLED HIMSELF.
AND SO THIS STRIKES ME AS
EMOTIONAL DISTRESS, NOT MENTAL
HEALTH DISTRESS AND NOT WHAT YOU
WOULD CALL A DELUSION.
>> NO, NOT A DELUSION AT ALL.
LAWRENCE, WHEN WE TALKED TO THE
CHILDREN IN TEXAS AND WE ASKED
THEM QUESTIONS, TO TRY TO GAUGE
WHAT THEIR UNDERSTANDING WAS OF
THEIR EXPERIENCES, THESE
CHILDREN DID NOT KNOW EXACTLY
WHY THEY WERE SEPARATED FROM
THEIR PARENTS.
THEIR PARENTS. THEY OFTEN DID NOT KNOW WHERE
THEIR PARENTS WERE.
THEY DIDN’T KNOW WHEN THEY WOULD
SEE THEM AGAIN.
THEY DIDN’T KNOW WHAT HAD BECOME
OF THEIR PARENTS IN MANY
INSTANCES.
INSTANCES. SO OF COURSE IT IS QUITE
PREDICTABLE THAT YOU WOULD HAVE
CHILDREN WHO WOULD SUFFER THIS
KIND OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS.
AND THIS KIND OF EMOTIONAL
DISTRESS, WE KNOW FROM OTHER
RESEARCH THAT IT CAN LEAD TO
MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES.
LOOK, AT HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH, WE
DID REPORTS AS FAR BACK AS THE
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION’S ZERO
TOLERANCE POLICY AND WE STARTED
DOCUMENTING WHAT THE EXPERIENCES
WERE OF THE CHILDREN AND THE
EXPERIENCES OF THEIR FAMILIES,
BECAUSE WE CAN’T STOP JUST WITH
THE CHILDREN, LAWRENCE.
WE HAVE TO ALSO LOOK AT WHAT’S
HAPPENING TO THE FAMILIES.
OUR RESEARCHERS SHOWED IN THEIR
REPORTS THAT THE FAST IN TOTAL
WERE SUFFERING FROM THE SAME
KINDS OF EXPERIENCES.
SO IT HAS A TRICKLE-DOWN EFFECT.
IT IMPACTS THE PARENTS AND IT
IMPACTS THE CHILDREN.
>> AND, YOU KNOW, EVERY WORD OF
THIS REPORT I READ, IT FEELS ODD
TO READ IT BECAUSE IT JUST SEEMS
TO OBVIOUS.
TO OBVIOUS. FOR EXAMPLE, A PROGRAM DIRECTOR,
QUOTE, SAYING WE NEED MORE
PSYCHIATRISTS,
PSYCHIATRISTS, NEURODEVELOPMENTAL
NEURODEVELOPMENTAL PSYCHIATRISTS, AND
PSYCHIATRISTS, AND PSYCHOLOGISTS.
PSYCHOLOGISTS. WELL, OF COURSE THEY DO.
>> EXACTLY.
>> EXACTLY. AND THE PROBLEM HERE IS THAT
WHILE IT’S VERY GOOD THAT THIS
REPORT HAS BEEN MADE PUBLIC
TODAY AND THAT WE’RE HAVING THIS
CONVERSATION, THE NEXT QUESTION
IS, WHAT NOW?
IT’S ONE THING TO EXPOSE WHAT’S
GOING ON.
GOING ON. IT’S ANOTHER THING FOR THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION TO THEN SAY,
OKAY, WE HAVE THIS DATA, IT’S
BEEN DOCUMENTED, AND NOW HERE IS
WHAT WE’RE GOING TO DO NEXT.
WE HAVEN’T HEARD THAT, LAWRENCE.
WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY’RE
GOING TO DO WITH THIS
INFORMATION.
INFORMATION. AND FRANKLY WE REALLY DON’T HAVE
A GREAT EXPECTATION THAT THEY
ARE GOING TO ACT ON IT.
WE HAVE SEEN WHEN THEY’VE
RECEIVED OTHER TYPES OF
INFORMATION, WHEN MYSELF AND
OTHER COLLEAGUES AND OTHER
ADVOCATES REPORTED ON WHAT WE
SAW IN CLINT AND IN HOMESTEAD
AND IN OTHER FACILITIES, WE
REALLY DIDN’T SEE A DIFFERENCE
IN TERMS OF THE PROTOCOLS AND
WHAT THE ADMINISTRATION WAS
DOING TO CREATE CHANGE AND MAKE
SURE THAT THE OUTCOMES WERE
DIFFERENT.
DIFFERENT. THAT’S WHAT WE NOW NEED TO BE
PUTTING PRESSURE ON THE
ADMINISTRATION ABOUT.
ADMINISTRATION ABOUT. NOW YOU HAVE THE INFORMATION.
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO
ENSURE THAT THE OUTCOME IS NOW
DIFFERENT AND THOUGHT THESE
CHILDREN RECEIVE THE CARE THAT
THEY NEED SO THEY WILL NOT
SUFFER FROM THESE SAME MENTAL
HEALTH ISSUES THAT THE OIG’S
REPORT HAS DOCUMENTED.
>> EXACTLY.
>> EXACTLY. AND THE PROFILE IN COURAGE AND
DELIVERING THIS REPORT TO US
TODAY IS JOANNE M. CHIETTI,
ACTING INSPECTOR GENERAL OF THE
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN
SERVICES.
SERVICES. SHE WAS NOT APPOINTED BY
PRESIDENT TRUMP AND MIGHT NOT BE
LONG IN THAT JOB IF IT’S UP TO
PRESIDENT TRUMP.
PRESIDENT TRUMP. THIS KIND OF WORK IS CRUCIALLY
IMPORTANT.
IMPORTANT. WE’RE SO LUCKY THAT SOMEONE TOOK
ON THIS DUTY IN THE DEPARTMENT