>>> NOW TO A MOVE TAKEN
YESTERDAY BY HOWARD UNIVERSITY
THAT POSES A BIG CAUSE FOR
CONCERN FOR OUR NEXT GUEST.
THE UNIVERSITY ANNOUNCED IT IS
SHUTTING DOWN ITS CLASSIC
STUDIES DEPARTMENT AS PART OF,
QUOTE, PRIORITIZATION EFFORTS.
IT IS CURRENTLY THE ONLY
HISTORICALLY BLACK COLLEGE OR
UNIVERSITY WITH SUCH A
DEPARTMENT.
IN RESPONSE, HARVARD
UNIVERSITYS CORNEL WEST AND
AUTHOR AND EDUCATOR, JEREMY
TAIT,TAIT
TATE, CO-WROTE AN OPINION PIECE
FOR "THE WASHINGTON POST"
WRITING, HOWARD UNIVERSITYS
REMOVAL OF CLASSICS A SPIRITUAL
CATASTROPHE.
QUOTE, ACADEMIAS CONTINUAL
CAMPAIGN TO DISREGARD OR NEGLECT
THE CLASSICS IS A SIGN OF
SPIRITUAL DECAY, MORAL DECLINE,
AND A DEEP INTELLECTUAL
NARROWNESS RUNNING AMOK IN
AMERICAN CULTURE.
THOSE WHO COMMIT THIS TERRIBLE
ACT TREAT WESTERN CIVILIZATION
AS EITHER IRRELEVANT AND NOT
WORTHY OF PRIORITIZATION OR AS
HARMFUL AND WORTHY ONLY OF
CONDEMNATION.
TO END THIS SPIRITUAL
CATASTROPHE, WE MUST RESTORE
TRUE EDUCATION, MOBILIZING ALL
OF THE INTELLECTUAL AND MORAL
RESOURCES WE CAN TO CREATE HUMAN
BEINGS OF COURAGE, VISION, AND
SIFBL
CIVIC VIRTUE.
THIS CLASSICAL APPROACH IS
UNITED TO THE BLACK EXPERIENCE.
IT RECOGNIZES THAT THE END AND
AIM OF EDUCATION IS REALLY THE
ANTHEM OF BLACK PEOPLE, WHICH IS
TO LIFT EVERY VOICE.
THAT MEANS TO FIND YOUR VOICE,
NOT AN ECHO OR AN IMITATION OF
OTHERS, BUT YOU CANT FIND YOUR
VOICE WITHOUT BEING GROUNDED IN
TRADITION, GROUNDED IN LEGACIES,
GROUNDED IN HERITAGES, ENGAGING
WITH THE CLASSICS, AND WITH OUR
CIVILIZATIONAL HERITAGE IS THE
MEANS TO FINDING OUR TRUE VOICE.
IT IS HOW WE BECOME OUR FULL
SELVES, SPIRITUALLY FREE AND
MORALLY GREAT.
AND JEREMY TATE JOINS UH NOW,S N
ALONG WITH PROFESSOR AT
PRINCETON UNIVERSITY, EDDIE
GLAUDE JR.
THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING WITH US
THIS MORNING.
>> JEREMY, THIS IS ACTUALLY
SOMETHING -- EDDIE AND I HAVE
BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR SOME
TIME.
HOW YOU BALANCE -- THE BEST OF
THINGS AND ALSO THE MOST
DAMAGING OF LEGACIES.
IM CURIOUS.
HAVE YOU AND CORNEL WEST BEEN
TALKING ABOUT THIS ISSUE FOR
SOME TIME.
>> THIS ALL STARTED, WE HAD DR.
WEST ON OUR PODCAST, THE ANCHOR
PODCAST, AND REALLY STIRRED UP A
CONVERSATION THAT PEOPLE WHO MAY
NOT SEE EYE-TO-EYE POLITICALLY
SEE A TON OF VALUE TO THIS
TRADITION.
AND THERES AN ATTACK RIGHT NOW
AGAINST THIS TRADITION, SCHOOLS
CANCELING CLASSICS LIKE THE
ODYSSEY.
WHAT WAS REALLY AMAZING TO ME
WAS THE WAY STUDENTS AT HOWARD
UNIVERSITY WHEN WORD BROKE THAT
THE CLASSICS DEPARTMENT WAS
GOING TO BE ELIMINATED, THEY
REALLIED ONY ED
RALLIED ON TWITTER AND OTHER
SOCIAL PLATFORMS TO MAKE SURE
THIS WOULDNT HAPPEN.
>> AND THERES A LINE HERE.
STUDENTS MUST BE CHALLENGED.
CAN THEY CONFRONT THE FACT THAT
HUMAN EXISTENCE IS NOT EASILY
DIVIDED INTO GOOD AND EVIL, BUT
FILLED WITH COMPLEXITY, NUANCE
AND AMBIGUITY.
TALK ABOUT THAT AND HOW THAT
QUESTION DOESNT JUST HANG OVER
HOWARD UNIVERSITY, BUT HANGS
OVER ALL AMERICAN UNIVERSITIES.
>> YOU KNOW, THERES A CRISIS
RIGHT NOW JOE, I BELIEVE IN
MAINSTREAM AMERICAN EDUCATION.
THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS I WAS A
TEACHER IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL, I
WAS ASK STUDENTS ON THE FIRST
DAY OF CLASS, WHY ARE WE HERE,
WHATS THE POINT.
AND THEY WOULD SAY ALMOST IN
UNISON, TO GET A BETTER JOB.
AND THIS IS JUST KIND OF BLAND
UTILITARIANISM, WHICH HAS TAKEN
OVER MAINSTREAM AMERICAN
EDUCATION.
I WOULD WRITE ON THE BOARD THEN
WHAT PLATO SAID, THAT THE OBJECT
OF EDUCATION IS ACTUALLY TO
TEACH US TO LOVE WHAT IS
BEAUTIFUL.
THAT WHOLE CONCEPT IS FOREIGN TO
MOST STUDENTS GOING THROUGH OUR
K-12 SYSTEM.
ITS ALL ABOUT CREDENTIALING,
ITS ALL ABOUT COLLEGE AND
CAREER READINESS, ITS ALL ABOUT
GETTING A BETTER JOB.
WE HAVE LOST THE HEART AND SOUL
OF EDUCATION, WHICH IS
FUNDAMENTALLY ABOUT WHAT IT
MEANS TO BE HUMAN.
>> OUR FRIEND, CORNEL WEST,
COULDNT BE ON TODAY, BUT EDDIE
GLAUDE, WHO IS A DEAR FRIEND OF
CORNELLS, IS ON.
EDDIE, THIS OP-ED WOULD LIKELY
SURPRISE SOME READERS OF "THE
WASHINGTON POST," SEEING CORNEL
WEST WRITING THIS.
I TAKE IT IT DOESNT SURPRISE
YOU.
>> NOT AT ALL.
NOT AT ALL.
THERES A SENSE IN WHICH CORNEL
WEST, I DONT WANT TO SPEAK FOR
MY DEAR FRIEND, JOE, IS DEEPLY
COMMITTED TO THE DEPTH AND POWER
OF TRADITIONS.
HE READS HIS T.S. ELIOT.
HE KNOWS HIS MATTHEW ARNOLD.
HE UNDERSTANDS, AS HE INVOKED, I
COULD HEAR HIS LANGUAGE IN THE
OP-ED, AS HE INVOKED THE
PHILOSOPHER HANS GOTMER ABOUT
THE IMPORTANCE OF TRADITION
SHAPING US.
THIS IS A SENSE IN WHICH HE
WANTS TO EMPHASIZE THIS NOTION
OF EDUCATION AS CHARACTER
FORMATION.
THIS IS AN ECHO OF DUBOIS
RESPONSE TO BOOKER T. WASHINGTON
AND HIS INSISTENCE ON VOCATIONAL
EDUCATION, AND DUBOIS SAYING,
NO, WE NEED TO EDUCATE THE
FULLNESS OF BHOWHO WE ARE, SO WE
CAN IMAGINE OURSELVES IN THE
MOST EXPANSIVE OF TERMS.
BUT I SEE A TENSION IN THE
OP-ED, I READ IT OVER AND OVER
AGAIN.
THE TENSION IS THIS, AS THE
FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE ACADEMY
OF RELIGION, IVE SEEN THE
CLOSURE OF RELIGION DEPARTMENTS.
AS THE CHAIR OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN
STUDIES, IVE SEEN THE DEFUNDING
OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDIES
DEPARTMENTS, WOMENS STUDIES
DEPARTMENTS, LATINO STUDIES
DEPARTMENTS AND THE LIKE.
WHAT WE SEE IS THIS
PRIORITIZATION HAS EVERYTHING TO
DO WITH AN ALL-OUT ASSAULT ON
THE HUMANITIES.
WHAT IS IT ABOUT THIS LANGUAGE
OF THE CLASSICS AND WESTERN
CIVILIZATION THAT ATTRACTS YOUR
ATTENTION AND DR. WESTS
ATTENTION, BECAUSE IT MAY VERY
WELL BE THAT CLASSICS IS JUST
SIMPLY A PART OF THIS ASSAULT ON
THE HUMANITIES, IF THAT MAKES
SENSE.
>> THE TIME I SPENT IN TEACHERS
ROOMS DURING LUNCH DEBATING
CURRICULUM AND WHAT BOOKS WE
SHOULD BE PUTTING IN FRONT OF
OUR STUDENTS SHOULD BE A
WELL-INTENTIONED AIM HAS ENDED
UP THAT STUDENTS DONT GET MUCH
OF ANY TRADITION AT ALL.
I THINK ITS BEEN SUCH A CONCERN
TO NOT OFFEND STUDENTS IN ANY
WAY ABOUT PUSHING ANY WESTERN
EUROPEAN CULTURES OVER OTHERS.
THIS IS WHY I LAUNCHED THE CLT
AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO THE SAT AND
ACT.
COLLEGE BOARD IS THE MAIN DRIVER
IN THE AMERICAN EDUCATION, BUT
THERES NO SUBSTANCE, NO SOUL.
THERES AN OLDER, RICHER VERSION
OF EDUCATION THAT WAS ALL ABOUT
PASSING DOWN THE BEST OF WHAT
HAS BEEN THOUGHT AND SAID HAS
BEEN ALMOST ENTIRELY LOST.
THERES NO SUBSTANCE OR SOUL TO
IT ANYMORE.
SO I BELIEVE AND I THINK DR.
WEST HAS BEEN A GREAT MEGAPHONE
FOR SAYING, WE CANT CANCEL THE
CLASSICS.
WE CANT CANCEL HOMER AND THE
ODYSSEY, THESE TEXTS THAT HAVE
BEEN FUNDAMENTAL TO SHAPING SOME
OF THE BEST IDEAS IN WESTERN
CIVILIZATION.
>> EDDIE, LETS BRING IT UP A
COUPLE OF HUNDRED OF YEARS FROM
HOMER AND OK RA TOOEZSOCRATES AN
LITTLE BIT ABOUT "TO KILL A
MOCKINGBIRD" AND "THE ADVENTURES
OF HUCKLEBERRY FINN," BOOKS THAT
HAVE BEEN PULLED OUT OF SCHOOL
BECAUSE IT MAKES KIDS
UNCOMFORTABLE.
THERE ARE WORDS THAT DO MAKE A
LOT OF MY DAUGHTERS CLASSMATES
UNCOMFORTABLE.
HOW DO WE HANDLE THAT, GRAPPLE
WITH THAT, THAT THERE ARE WORDS
IN THE BOOK THAT WERE WRITTEN
150 YEARS AGO THAT DO MAKE US
UNCOMFORTABLE IN 2021, BUT THE
STORY AT THE CORE OF THOSE BOOKS
SOMETHING THATS WORTH READING?
>> YEAH, WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND
THAT.
WE HAVE TO CONFRONT THE
COMPLEXITY OF HUMAN BEINGS, OF
THE HUMAN JOURNEY.
IT MAKES NO SENSE TO REDACT THE
N-WORD OUT OF TWAIN.
THAT WOULD BE SILLY TO ME.
IT MAKES NO SENSE TO KIND OF TRY
TO BURY THE REALITY OF WHO WE
ARE.
JOE AND I AND WILLIE, YOU AND I
HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS --
AND MIKA, WEVE BEEN TALKING
ABOUT THIS FOR A WHILE.
WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE
COMPLEXITY OF WHO WE ARE.
WE CANT HIDE OUR UGLINESS.
WE HAVE TO CONFRONT IT.
WE HAVE TO CONFRONT IT HONESTLY.
AND TO DO SO DOESNT MEAN THAT
WE HAVE TO LIFT UP SOME
IDEALIZED VERSION OF WESTERN
CIVILIZATION.
I KNOW IT WAS IN YOUR SUBTITLE
OF SAVING FREEDOM, BUT OFTEN
TIMES WESTERN CIVILIZATION HAS
BEEN A EUPHEMISM FOR WHITE
CIVILIZATION.
BUT WE HAVE TO CONFRONT WHO WE
ARE.
THAT DOESNT MEAN STICKING YOUR
HEAD IN THE SAND WHEN WE
CONFRONT SOME OF THE UGLINESS
WHAT WEVE DONE.
THAT UGLINESS WILL OPEN UP
IMAGINING OURSELVES DIFFERENTLY.
>> 100%.
>> WESTERN CIVILIZATION IN THE
PAST HAS BEEN DEFINED BY WHITE
CIVILIZATION.
BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I
LOVE ABOUT THIS OP-ED IS IT
EXPLAINS, IT IS EXPANSIVE.
WERE ALL A PART OF IT.
AND YOU KNOW, WHAT I ALSO --
EDDIE, SOMETHING THAT WEVE BEEN
TALKING ABOUT FOR YEARS NOW,
LOOKING AT THE FOUNDING FATHERS,
LOOKING AT WASHINGTON, LOOKING
AT JEFFERSON, LOOKING AT
MADISON, LOOKING AT THESE PEOPLE
WHO WERE SLAVE OWNERS, WHO DID
THINGS, ABHORRENT BY TODAYS
STANDARDS, I WOULD SAY ABHORRENT
BY ANY DAYS STANDARDS.
YOU TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO
BALANCE THAT WITH WHERE WE ARE
TODAY AND REALIZE THAT KING,
WHAT DID KING DO?
HE USED THE WORDS OF THOMAS
JEFFERSON JUST LIKE FRED RIG
DOUGLAS USED THE WORDS OF THOMAS
JEFFERSON AND MORE PEOPLE HAVE
USED THE WORDS OF THOMAS
JEFFERSON AS BOTH A SWORD AND AS
A SHIELD FOR FREEDOM.
AND THOSE WORDS PROBABLY
LIBERATED MORE PEOPLE GLOBALLY
THAN ANY OTHER WORDS EVER
PRODUCED AT ANY POLITICAL
DOCUMENT AND YET HE WAS A SLAVE
OWNER, HE WROTE ABHORRENT THINGS
IN HIS LIFE AND HE DID ABHORRENT
THINGS IF HIS LIFE AND THE
CHALLENGE IS HOW DO WE USE THOSE
WORDS, HOW DO WE USE THOSE IDEAS
LIKE MARTIN LUTHER KING DID IN
HIS LETTER FROM BIRMINGHAM JAIL
TO LIBERATE EVEN MORE PEOPLE.
>> YOU KNOW, JOE, HOW DO WE COME
TO POSSESS OUR INHERITANCE AS
OUR OWN.
NOT TO HAVE IT STUFFED DOWN OUR
THROATS, BUT TO ASSESS IT AND
UNDERSTAND IT AND POSSESS IT AS
MINE.
HOW DO I POSSESS WALT WHITMAN,
AND HE THOUGHT I DIDNT HAVE THE
CAPACITY TO BE A CITIZEN.
HOW DO I UNDERSTAND HIS INSIGHT
AND HISFAILURES, AND HOW DO WE T
POSSESSION OF OUR INHERITANCE AS
OUR OWN.
YOU CANT READ TONY MORRIS, A
CLASSICS DEPARTMENT, WITHOUT
UNDERSTANDING HOW IMPORTANT THE
CLASSICS WERE TO HER LITERARY
IMAGINATION.
THIS IS WHETHER THIS IS
RIPITITIES OR CONFLICT IN