>>> PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS BEEN IMPEACHED, BUT ALMOST EVERY DAY
WE’RE STILL LEARNING NOW DETAILS
ABOUT HIS UKRAINE CONSPIRACY.
FRIDAY NIGHT WE LEARNED 90
MINUTES AFTER TRUMP’S INFAMOUS
UKRAINE CALL, WHITE HOUSE
OFFICIALS TOLD THE PENTAGON TO
STAY QUIET ABOUT THE FROZEN
MILITARY AID.
MILITARY AID. IN THE PAST WEEK WE ALSO LEARNED
THAT A RUDY GIULIANI ASSOCIATE
SECRETLY GOT A MILLION DOLLAR
PAYOUT FROM A PUTIN-LINKED
OLIGARCH, THAT PUTIN HIMSELF
APPARENTLY FED TRUMP THOSE BOGUS
UKRAINE IDEAS, AND THAT A KEY
WITNESS TO THE PLOT, BILL
TAYLOR, IS NOW BEING ORDERED TO
LEAVE UKRAINE.
LEAVE UKRAINE. IN OTHER WORDS, THIS IS FAR FROM
OVER.
OVER. THERE IS STILL A LOT WE DON’T
KNOW, WHICH HIGHLIGHTS THE NEED
FOR NEW WITNESSES AT TRUMP’S
SENATE TRIAL.
SENATE TRIAL. THERE ARE 41 WITNESSES AT ANDREW
JOHNSON’S TRIAL, THREE AT BILL
CLINTON’S.
CLINTON’S. >> REPUBLICAN HOUSE MANAGERS
TOLD THE SENATE THEY HAVE A
WITNESS LIST, FINALLY NAMING
NAMES.
NAMES. PRESIDENT CLINTON’S FRIEND
VERNON JORDAN, SIDNEY BLUMENTHAL
AND MONICA LEWINSKY.
>> THE SENATE LAID DOWN THE LAW
TODAY.
TODAY. HOUSE PROSECUTORS CAN PERSUADE
THE SENATE TO CALL WITNESS, BUT
ONLY A FEW, AND ONLY IF THEY CAN
ADD TO THE CASE TO CONVICT THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. >> IN FACT, REPUBLICAN SENATORS
BACK THEN FELT THEY NEEDED
WITNESS, INCLUDING SOME WHO WILL
BE VOTING ON TRUMP’S FATE.
NOW LIKE SUSAN COLLINS.
>> I NEED WITNESSES AND FURTHER
EVIDENCE TO GUIDE ME TO THE
RIGHT DESTINATION TO GET TO THE
TRUTH.
TRUTH. >> WITH ME NOW, FORMER ACTING
U.S. SOLICITOR GENERAL NEAL
KATYAL.
KATYAL. HIS NEW BOOK "IMPEACH: THE CASE
AGAINST DONALD TRUMP."
AND JUST MINUTES AGO HE
PUBLISHED A NEW OP-ED IN "THE
WASHINGTON POST" TITLED NEW
EVIDENCE FOR IMPEACHMENT OF
DONALD TRUMP KEEPS TURNING UP.
THAT’S WHY WE NEED WITNESSES.
EXPLAIN WHY WITNESSES ARE NEEDED
AT THE TRIAL, DESPITE WHAT
SOMEBODY LIKE MITCH McCONNELL
SAYS, THAT THEY ARE NOT 23450ED.
>> THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT
WAYS TO DO SO, BUT LET ME GIVE
YOU ONE MICROCOSM, AND THAT’S
WHAT "THE WASHINGTON POST" PIECE
THAT I JUST LAUNCHED A FEW
MINUTES AGO SAYS.
SO ON FRIDAY NIGHT, TRUMP HAD
TRIED TO KEEP THESE EMAILS
SECRET FROM HIS OMB EXECUTIVES,
BUT THEY CAME OUT.
BECAUSE OF PRIVATE LITIGATION,
HE TRIED TO HIDE THEM.
AND THE EMAILS SAY ONE ON JULY
25th, JUST 90 MINUTES AFTER THE
PRESIDENT HAD HIS QUID PRO QUO
PHONE CALL WITH THE PRESIDENT OF
UKRAINE SAYING, I NEED A FAVOR
FROM YOU, THOUGH, 90 MINUTES
LATER, THIS OMB, THIS OFFICE OF
MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET OFFICIAL,
A TRUMP POLITICAL APPOINTEE
ORDERS THE AID WITHHELD AND THEN
SAYS EFFECTIVELY, KEEP THIS
QUIET.
QUIET. ONLY TELL PENTAGON BUDGET
OFFICIALS.
OFFICIALS. NOW WHY DID HE WANT IT KEPT
QUIET?
QUIET? WHO IS HE KEEPING IT QUIET FROM?
THERE IS ONLY ONE REAL
EXPLANATION HERE, AND IT’S
CONGRESS, BECAUSE HE’ REQUIRED
ACTUALLY UNDER LAW, IF YOU TRY
AND NOT SPEND SOME MONEY THAT
CONGRESS IS NOT ALLOCATED, THE
ACT OF 1974 REQUIRES CONGRESS TO
BE TOLD ABOUT IT, AND THEY
WEREN’T.
WEREN’T. NOW THAT OFFICIAL, MICHAEL DUFFY
WHO WROTE THOSE EMAILS, HE HAS
BEEN ON THE WITNESS LIST FOR THE
DEMOCRATS IN THE HOUSE AND THE
SENATE.
SENATE. THE SENATE HAS ONLY NAMED FOUR
PEOPLE THEY WANT ON THEIR LIST.
HE IS ONE OF THEM.
AND THIS IS BEFORE THIS EMAIL.
NOW LOOK, CAN YOU COME UP WITH
SOME POSSIBLE EXPLANATION FOR
WHAT DUFFY SAID IN THOSE EMAILS?
IT’S REALLY HARD, WHICH IS WHY
TRUMP TRIED TO HIDE THE EMAILS
IN THE FIRST PLACE.
BUT I SUPPOSE IT’S POSSIBLE.
BUT THAT’S EXACTLY WHY DUFFY
NEEDS TO COME AND TESTIFY AND
TELL THE TRUTH TO THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE.
PEOPLE. AND WHAT DONALD TRUMP HAS DONE
IS HE HAS SAID NO, FULL GAG
ORDER.
ORDER. DUFFY AND NO ONE ELSE CAN
TESTIFY.
TESTIFY. THE MOST STRIKING THING ABOUT
THIS IS DONALD TRUMP IS BEING
IMPEACHED FOR BLOCKING
WITNESSES, AND HIS SOLUTION IS
OH, I’M GOING TO GO BLOCK
WITNESSES AGAIN IN THE SENATE.
IT IS A GRAVE ABUSE OF POWER.
>> AND HE IS CERTAINLY GETTING
SOME HELP FROM THE SENATE,
INCLUDING PEOPLE LIKE MITCH
McCONNELL.
McCONNELL. AND THERE IS A BIT OF IRONY IN
ALL OF THIS, IN THAT SENATORS
ARE EXPECTED TO SWEAR A OATH TO
DO IMPARTIAL JUSTICE, BUT MITCH
McCONNELL DOESN’T SEEM TO BE
LIVING UP TO THAT.
WHAT IS YOUR TAKE?
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO MITCH
McCONNELL WHEN HE MAKES THE
ARGUMENT THIS IS NOT A JUDICIAL
PROCESS, THIS IS A POLITICAL
PROCESS?
PROCESS? >> I MEAN, IMPEACHMENTS IN THE
CONSTITUTION, AND I CAN’T THINK
OF A MORE GRAVE RESPONSIBILITY
THAN THE SENATE WHICH IS
ALLOCATED THE SOLE POWER TOE TRY
PIECE.
PIECE. .
. A TRIAL IS AFTER ALL A LEGAL
PROCEEDING, AND IMPEACHMENT HAS
POLITICAL OVERTONES, BUT NO, YOU
CAN’T GO OUT AND JUST ANNOUNCE
YOUR VERDICT BEFORE HAVING THE
TRIAL.
TRIAL. I KNOW THAT’S WHAT McCONNELL IS
FAMILIAR WITH IN SOVIET JUSTICE,
BUT IN THIS COUNTRY, WE HAVE
REAL TRIALS WITH WITNESSES, AND
AS YOU SAID, ANDREW JOHNSON HAD
41 WITNESSES.
41 WITNESSES. CLINTON HAD 3THREE.
THE IDEA THAT YOU HAVE A TRIAL
WITH NO WITNESSES AND HAVE THE
SENATE MAJORITY LEADER
PREDETERMINE AND PREANNOUNCE HIS
RESULTS AHEAD OF TIME, THIS IS A
CONSTITUTIONAL TRAVESTY.
CONSTITUTIONAL TRAVESTY. AND MITCH McCONNELL HAS SHOWN
SEVERAL TIMES HE HAS NO
APPRECIATION FOR THE
CONSTITUTION.
CONSTITUTION. BUT I DON’T THINK THE AMERICAN
FEMALE WILL SUPPORT SUCH A
THING.
THING. >> THERE IS AN INTERESTING
THEORY THAT IS BEING FLOATED OUT
THERE BY TRUMP ALLIES AND SOME
SCHOLARS WHO ARE CLAIMING THAT
PRESIDENT TRUMP HASN’T REALLY
BEEN IMPEACHED BECAUSE THE
DOCUMENTS, THE ARTICLES
THEMSELVES HAVE NOT BEEN
TRANSMITTED TO MITCH McCONNELL’S
OFFICE.
OFFICE. WATCH THIS SOUND BITE.
>> ONE CAN MAKE A FAIRLY DECENT
ARGUMENT THAT THE PRESIDENT
WASN’T REALLY EVEN IMPEACHED.
NANCY AND THE GANG RAN OUT OF
TOWN WITHOUT EVEN NAMING
IMPEACHMENT MANAGERS AND WITHOUT
SENDING THE ARTICLES TO THE
SENATE.
SENATE. >> I’M NOT SURE SHE CAN MAKE A
LEGALLY BASED ARGUMENT, BUT HAS
TRUMP BEEN IMPEACHED OR NOT?
>> OH, HE’S CERTAINLY BEEN
IMPEACHED.
IMPEACHED. I DON’T THINK NOBODY REALLY
BELIEVES THIS.
BELIEVES THIS. CONSTITUTIONAL SCHOLARS DON’T
BELIEVE THIS WITH THE EXCEPTION
OF ONE GUY AT HARVARD WHO I
THINK IS ENAMORED A LITTLE BIT
BY HIS INTELLIGENCE.
THIS IS A CLEVER BUT ULTIMATELY
TERRIBLE ARGUMENT.
TERRIBLE ARGUMENT. IT’S AN ARGUMENT THE HOYS DIDN’T
BELIEVE.
BELIEVE. IT WOULD MEAN THE HOUSE HAS BEEN
DEBATING IN A RESOLUTION AND
TAKING WITNESSES AND HEARING
TESTIMONY FOR NO REASON AT ALL
THAT CAN’T POSSIBLY BE THE RULE
THEY VOTED TO IMPEACH THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, DONALD
TRUMP HIMSELF THINKS HE HAS BEEN
IMPEACHED BECAUSE HIS OWN
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT MADE A FILING
LAST WEEK IN FEDERAL COURT IN
THE McGANN CASE WHICH SAID THAT
CASE IS NOW MOOT BECAUSE HE HAS
BEEN IMPEACHED.
BEEN IMPEACHED. NOBODY -- I THINK NOBODY SERIOUS
REALLY BELIEVES THIS.
>> AND LET ME GET YOUR THOUGHTS
THE ROLE JOINT CHIEF JUSTICE
JOHN ROBERTS WILL PLAY IN THIS.
HE IS EXPECTED TO PRESIDE OVER
THE TRIAL.
THE TRIAL. THERE ARE SPARKS BETWEEN
PRESIDENT TRUMP GOING AFTER
CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS ON TWITTER
OVER THE PAST YEAR OR SO.
WHAT DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO PLAY?
DOES HE HAVE ANY ACTUAL POWER OR
INFLUENCE, NOT ON THE OUTCOME,
BUT AT LEAST IN THE DECORUM AND
THE PROCESS OF HOW THIS PLAYS
OUT?
OUT? >> OH, I THINK THE CHIEF JUSTICE
HAS A MASSIVE ROLE TO PLAY.
SO IMPEACHMENTS OF THE PRESIDENT
HAVE BEEN GOVERNED BY THE SAME
RULES THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND
SINCE ANDREW JOHNSON IN 1868.
AND THEY SAY THAT THE CHIEF
JUSTICE IS THE ONE TO DECIDE
OVER WHICH WITNESSES WILL
APPEAR.
APPEAR. AND SO McCONNELL HAS BEEN TRYING
TO SIGNAL THAT MAYBE HE IS GOING
TO TRY TO BREAK WITH THOSE RULES
AND TRY AND DO SOMETHING TOTALLY
DIFFERENT, SOMETHING VERY
UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
UNCONSTITUTIONAL. BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT’S GOING TO
REQUIRE I THINK A REAL
SIGNIFICANT REBUKE BY THE SENATE
OVER THE CHIEF JUSTICE.
I JUST DON’T THINK THAT’S
POSSIBLE.
POSSIBLE. AND SO I DO THINK ULTIMATELY THE
CHIEF JUSTICE IS EMPOWERED BY
THOSE 1868 RULES TO DECIDE ON
WITNESSES.
WITNESSES. AND JOIN AWHEN YOU HAVE A CIRCUM
LIKE THIS WHEN ONE OF THE TWO
CENTRAL ALLEGATIONS AGAINST THE
PRESIDENT IS HE IS OBSTRUCTING
JUSTICE BY BLOCKING WITNESSES, I
THINK IT’S UNLIKE THEY THIS
CHIEF JUSTICE, WHO IS KNOWN FOR
FAIRNESS IS GOING TO SAY OH,