WE HAVE PART TWO OF BRET BAIER’S
BORDER PATROL CHIEF RODNEY
SCOTT.
>> Bret: THANKS, MIKE.
THIS IS PART TWO OF OUR
INTERVIEW WITH RODNEY SCOTT.
FORMER HEAD BORDER PATROL UNDER
THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND THE
BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.
THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
IT’S MY HONOR.
>> SO AFTER ALL YOUR YEARS, HOW
WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THE IMPORTANCE OF BORDER SECURITY?
IMPORTANCE OF BORDER SECURITY?
>> IT’S JUST LIKE YOUR HOME IF
YOU DO NOT KNOW WHO IS COMING
DON’T HAVE ANY SECURITY.
IF WE DON’T KNOW WHO IS COME IN
THIS COUNTRY YOU HAVE NO
HOMELAND SECURITY.
THE MOST FRUSTRATING PART FOR MY
CLEAR, THE VAST MAJORITY OF MY
CAREER WE WERE MAKING
SIGNIFICANT PROGRESS.
MAKING SMART INVESTMENTS.
GETTING BETTER AND BETTER
CONTROL OF THE BORDER.
OUR CONFIDENCE LEVEL IN BEING
ABLE TO SAY WE KNOW KNEW AND
WHAT CROSSED IT WAS NOT
100 PERCENT.
IT WAS GETTING SIGNIFICANTLY
BETTER THAN EVER BEFORE.
AND IT ALLOWED US TO MAKE
CALCULATED RISK DECISIONS ON
BEHALF OF AMERICANS.
WE KNEW HOT ORGANIZATIONS WERE
BRINGING THEM.
AND WE HAD A HIGHER CONFIDENCE
LEVEL OF WHAT TYPE OF A RISK
WOULD THEY BE IF THEY CROSSED IN
THIS AREA OR THEY ARE TRYING TO
EVADE ARREST CRIMINAL ALIENS,
INVESTING IN TECHNOLOGY SYMPTOMS
THAT USE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE
THAT HELP US WITH THAT AS WELL.
ALL OF THAT HAS BEEN SHUT DOWN
AND ALL EFFORT HAS BEEN
REFOCUSED ON EXPEDITING THE
PROCESSING SPEED MASSIVE AMOUNT
OF ILLEGAL AIM YENS COMING INTO
THE COUNTRY TODAY.
THAT SHOULD MATTER.
BECAUSE IF I CAN’T TELL YOU WHO
CROSSES THROUGH IN NOGALES OR
McALLEN OR SAN DIEGO, THEY ARE
GOING TO END UP IN YOUR
COMMUNITY.
>> Bret: SO, IN THAT CASE, IT IS
FAIRLY OPEN.
>> THE BORDER IS WIDE OPEN RIGHT
NOW.
>> Bret: WIDE OPEN?
>> THE BORDER IS WIDE OPEN RIGHT
NOW.
BORDER PATROL IS WELL BEYOND
WHAT I WOULD CALL TASK
SATURATION.
THEY ARE SO OVERWHELMED THERE
ARE HUGE SECTIONS OF U.S.
BORDER, YOU PICK THE STATE, WE
KNOW WE HAVE THOUSAND OF PEOPLE
WAITING TO COME ACROSS WHERE WE
KNOW WE HAVE LIKE HIGH LEVEL
CARTEL VIOLENCE GOING ON ON A
DAILY BASIS BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR
OF MEXICO AND THE CARTELS.
AND THEY ARE BRINGING NARCOTICS
IN.
THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF MILES OF
BORDER THERE IS NOT A SINGLE
BORDER PATROL AGENT RIGHT NOW.
WHY?
BECAUSE THEY ARE IN A SOFT SIDED
FACILITY THAT WE SET UP AT
ANOTHER 5 TO $6 MILLION A MONTH
TO BABY-SIT, TO PROCESS, AND TO
EXPEDITE THE PROCESSING OF THESE
PEOPLE.
I HAVE FOUGHT FOR IT MY WHOLE
CAREER.
YOU CAN BE PRO-BORDER SECURITY,
PRO-LAW AND ORDER AND
PRO-IMMIGRATION, IT JUST HAS TO
BE LEGAL.
YOU CAN’T HAVE UNABATED ILLEGAL
ENTRY INTO THIS COUNTRY AND HAVE
ANY REAL BELIEF THAT YOU HAVE
BORDER SECURITY.
YOU HAVE NO BORDER SECURITY, YOU
HAVE NO HOMELAND SECURITY, NO
NATIONAL SECURITY.
REMAIN IN MEXICO PROGRAM, WHAT
THAT DID IS IT ENSURED DUE
PROCESS SO THAT ANYBODY COULD
GET A CHANCE TO BASICALLY CLAIM
ASYLUM.
BUT IT TOOK AWAY THE PRIZE
BEFORE THE JUDGE MADE A
DECISION.
SO IT REALLY WEEDED OUT THE
FRAUD.
WHAT PEOPLE MISS IN THAT IS BY
WEEDING OUT THOSE THOUSANDS AND
THOUSANDS OF FRAUD CASES, PEOPLE
THAT ACTUALLY LITERALLY
LEGITIMATELY NEED ASYLUM CAN GET
IT QUICKER AND EASIER.
BECAUSE IT’S THE SAME NUMBER OF
PEOPLE PROCESSING ALL THESE
CASES.
>> Bret: SO, AGAIN, WHY CHANGE
THAT?
WASN’T THAT SOMETHING THAT WAS
WORKING?
>> I CAN’T GET INTO THE WHY AND
SPECULATE BUT I CAN TELL YOU
THAT IT WAS WORKING.
DRAMATICALLY CHANGED THE BORDER
DYNAMICS FOR US AND ELIMINATED
THE ASYLUM FRAUD.
AS SOON AS PEOPLE KNEW THEY
WEREN’T GOING TO GET RELEASED
INTO THE U.S. AND HAVE 6 TO 7
YEARS TO HIDE BEFORE THEIR COURT
DATE, THEY STOPPED APPLYING.
BECAUSE THE CASE WASN’T VALID TO
BEGIN WITH.
>> Bret: YOU FEEL IT’S IMPORTANT
TO SPEAK OUT NOW.
>> I THINK IT’S VERY IMPORTANT
TO SPEAK OUT NOW.
THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE WITHIN
DHS THAT WANT TO TELL THE STORY
WITHIN BORDER PATROL, WITHIN
ICE, WITHIN ERO.
BUT THEY ARE WITHIN THE CONFINES
OF THE STRUCTURE.
AND I DON’T THINK IT’S A
SURPRISE TO ANYBODY THAT ON
JANUARY 0TH, BASICALLY A GAG
ORDER CAME DOWN WHERE NONE OF
THOSE OFFICIALS ARE ALLOWED TO
SAY ANYTHING TO ANYBODY.
UNLESS IT’S ALL PREAPPROVED.
SO, THAT’S WHY I PUSH FOR THE
CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS.
THAT’S WHY I DIDN’T COME OUT DAY
ONE SAYING ANYTHING.
BECAUSE I THINK THAT’S THE
PROPER WAY TO DO IT.
IF THEY’RE CALLED BEFORE
CONGRESS, THEY JUST TELL THE
TRUTH.
UNDER OATH.
AS OPPOSED TO RIGHT NOW THEY
JUST CAN’T.
WHATEVER YOU THINK ABOUT BORDER
SECURITY, YOU NEED FACTUAL
INFORMATION, WHICH MEANS THE
WHOLE STORY.
HOW MANY REALLY ARE BEING
RELEASED INTO THE U.S.?
HOW MANY REALLY ARE BEING TESTED
FOR COVID?
OUT OF THAT?
HOW MANY ARE REALLY POSITIVE?
THERE IS INFORMATION THAT DHS
HAS THAT THEY ARE MAKING THE
DECISION TO NOT SHARE WITH THE
PUBLIC THAT HISTORICALLY WE
WOULD HAVE SHARED.
>> Bret: WERE YOU SURPRISED AT
SOME OF THE DECISIONS WHEN YOU
HEARD THEM AS YOU ARE STILL
BORDER CHIEF AS THEY WERE COMING
DOWN?
WERE YOU SURPRISED THAT THESE
ARE THE THINGS THAT THEY WERE
CHOOSING TO DO OR NOT DO?
>> I WOULDN’T SAY SURPRISED.
I WILL TELL YOU I KIND OF HAD A
FALSE HOPE BECAUSE I HAVE HEARD
THAT BEFORE.
HAVE YOU SEEN TRANSITIONS OF THE
ADMINISTRATION BEFORE AND YOU
SAY ONE THING AND THEN WHEN THEY
GET ALL THE FACTS AND REALLY
LOOK AT THINGS YOU WILL HESITATE
AND YOU WILL RECONSIDER.
THERE IS NO DIALOGUE NO -- THE
GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS JUST AREN’T
BEING LISTENED TO, PROVEN
SYSTEMS, PROVEN PROGRAMS ARE
BEING IGNORED.
AND I HAVE AVOID THE WHY.
I WILL JUST TELL US THAT’S
WHAT’S HAPPENING.
>> Bret: CARTE BLANCHE, IF YOU
HAD THE MAGIC WAND, AND YOU
COULD DO WHAT YOU WANTED ON THE
BORDER, TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM, OR
TRY, TO HOW WOULD YOU DO IT?
>> I WOULD REIMPLEMENT THE
STRATEGY THAT THE UNITED STATES
BORDER PATROL HAD BEEN WORKING
ON AND PERFECTING FOR 25, ALMOST
30 YEARS.
AND THAT IS JUST A SMART MIX IN
CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION AT
THE PORTS OF ENTRY.
WE DO THAT IN LOCK STEP BY THE
WAY.
YOU WILL HEAR PEOPLE SAYING
THAT’S ONLY AT THE PORT.
THAT’S NOT TRUE GOES BACK AND
FORTH.
WE HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER IN LOCK
STEP.
WITH YOU WE HAVE BEEN
SYSTEMATICALLY IMPROVING BORDER
SECURITY FOR YEARS THROUGH A
SMART DEPLOYMENT OF PERSONNEL,
TECHNOLOGY AND INFRASTRUCTURE.
WHAT WOULD I DO?
IS THAT.
SIMPLY CONTINUE TO BUILD OUT THE
BORDER WALL BUT THOSE
REQUIREMENTS WERE DEVELOPED BY
SEASONED BORDER PATROL AGENTS
BASED ON WHERE THAT
INFRASTRUCTURE COULD MAKE THE
BIGGEST DIFFERENCE AND THE
RETURN ON INVESTMENT LONG-TERM.
I WOULD CONTINUE TO INVEST IN
THE PEOPLE BUT THERE HAS GOT TO
BE COONS SEQUENCE FOR ILLEGAL
ENTRY.
YOU CANNOT LET PEOPLE JUST COME
UP WAVE A FLAG AND RELEASE THEM
INTO THE U.S. TO GET THEIR CASE
HEARD FIVE, SIX YEARS LATER.
THEY HAVE ALREADY GOT THE PRIZE.
THEY ARE ALREADY HERE.
THERE IS NO REASON FOR THAT.
>> Bret: SO YOU ARE SAYING THAT
THAT, WHILE IT WAS A TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION POLICY, IS NOT --
PEOPLE SHUNT BE ANTIPOLITICAL
ANTI-TRUMP.
IT’S POLICY THAT THE BORDER
PATROL CAME UP WITH OVER YEARS?
>> DHS PERSONNEL.
SO, THIS IS HOW IT WORKED UP TO
JANUARY 0TH.
I DIDN’T CREATE THIS BUT I WAS
PROUD TO BE PART OF IT.
PEOPLE GOT BROUGHT IN A ROOM
FROM ICE.
CIS.
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, FROM U.S.
BORDER PATROL AND THEY WERE TOLD
HEY, HOW -- WHAT CAN WE DO WITH
WHAT WE HAVE.
WE ARE STILL GOING TO WORK WITH
CONGRESS AND GET SOME OF THESE
LAWS FIXED BUT, IN THE MEANTIME,
WHAT CAN WE WORK WITH?
WHAT CAN WE DO TO SECURE THE
BORDER SO WE CAN GOAT OUT AND
TELL AMERICA WE KNOW WHO AND
WHAT IS CROSSING THAT BORDER TO
THE BEST ABILITY WE POSSIBLY
CAN?
>> Bret: WHAT’S YOUR BIGGEST
FEAR WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE
BORDER.
>> BEYOND THE BORDER NOW WHAT
I’M SEEING AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL
IS HIDING OF INFORMATION FROM
THE AMERICAN PUBLIC SO THEY
CAN’T EVEN MAKE A GOOD DECISION.
THEY CAN’T MAKE AN EDUCATED
DECISION BECAUSE THEY DON’T HAVE
THE INFORMATION.
THAT WORRIES ME.
JUST SOCIETY IN GENERAL HOW IT’S
HARDER AND HARDER TO EVEN PEOPLE
LISTENING TO ME RIGHT NOW.
YOU DON’T HAVE TO BELIEVE
ANYTHING I SAY.
ANYBODY THAT THINKS THAT AN
UNEDUCATED SMUGGLER BRINGING
COCAINE AND MARIJUANA ACROSS THE
BORDER THAT SUCCESSFULLY GETS
PASSED BORDER PATROL AGENTS IS
THE ONLY THREAT IS KIND OF
NAIVE.
THERE IS A LOT OF OTHER THREATS
AND AGAIN WE HAVE TO SIT IN A
DIFFERENT VENUE FOR THAT.
BUT I SPENT FIVE YEARS AFTER
9/11 WORKING ON ANTITERRORISM
ISSUES.
SPECIFICALLY FOR BORDER PATROL
AND CBP AND BRINGING US IN TO
THAT ARENA TO SEE WHAT THE OTHER
THREATS ARE THAT ARE OUT THERE.
AND THEY ARE REAL.
WE ARE GETTING BETTER EVERY DAY
TO SHUT ALL OF THAT OFF AND TO
PUT PEOPLE’S LIVES AT RISK IN
KANSAS OR CHICAGO OR EVERYWHERE
ELSE.
>> Bret: BECAUSE PEOPLE ON THE
BORDER THEY FEEL IT WHETHER
THEY’RE DEMOCRATS OR
REPUBLICANS.
THEY ARE PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS
ISSUE.
>> CORRECT.
>> Bret: BUT YOU ARE SAYING IT
SHOULD AFFECT EVERY STATE.
>> YEAH.
PEOPLE WATCHING THIS RIGHT NOW I
THINK SOME OF THEM AND SAY
THAT’S A BORDER PROBLEM.
THEY ARE NOT STAYING THERE.
AND THOSE 400,000 PEOPLE THAT
AVOIDED ARREST, THEY CLEARLY
DIDN’T STAY AT THE BORDER.
THEY MIGHT BE LIVING DOWN THE
STREET FROM YOU.
WHO ARE THEY?
WHAT’S THE THREAT?
I JUST CAN’T TELL YOU THAT
BECAUSE WE DIDN’T INTERACT WITH
THEM.
BUT I CAN TELL YOU WE -- THE
BORDER PATROL ARRESTED OVER
10,000 CRIMINAL ALIENS LAST YEAR
OUT OF THE PEOPLE THAT THEY CAME
IN CONTACT WITH.
THE OTHER THING THAT GETS MISSED
SOMETIMES, THAT MEANS THEY HAVE
BEEN IN THE U.S. BEFORE AND
COMMITTED A CRIME.
THERE IS NO GLOBAL DATA BASE
THAT SAYS WHAT CRIMES THESE
PEOPLE COMMITTED IN SYRIA OR
NICARAGUA OR HONDURAS.
AT ALL.
THOSE 10,000 ARE ONLY PEOPLE
THAT HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE AND
COMMITTED A CRIME.
SO WHAT ELSE -- JUST
STATISTICALLY IF YOU BUILD THAT
OUT, THERE IS SOME REAL THREATS
TO THIS COUNTRY THAT ARE GETTING
BY US RIGHT NOW THAT LITERALLY
ALL IT TAKES IS TO REIMPLEMENT
SOME OF THE PROGRAMS WE HAD IN
PLACE, THAT GOT RID OF THE
FRAUD, THAT SLOWED DOWN THE
FLOW, YOU ARE ALWAYS GOING TO
HAVE SOME PEOPLE TRYING TO SNEAK
IN ILLEGALLY.
THAT’S WHY WE HAVE A BORDER
PATROL.
THEY CAN MAKE DECISIONS OF WHERE
THEY DEPLOY MUCH MORE SMARTER
WHEN YOU ARE DEALING WITH
MANAGEABLE NUMBERS THAT BE THE
CHAOS THAT WE HAVE TODAY, WHICH
FROM THE INTEL I HAVE SEEN AND
HEARD ABOUT IS NOTHING LIKE
WHAT’S GOING TO COME TOMORROW.
IT’S GOING TO GET SO MUCH WORSE