Speaker
Kevin McCarthy
muscled a bill through the House
to raise the debt ceiling
and impose $4.8 trillion in spending cuts
over the next decade.
Republicans see it as an opening
salvo in talks with Democrats,
but the president says
he will not negotiate
over paying the nation's bills.
Here with me now is Senator
Bernie Sanders,
chairman
of the Health, Education, Labor
and Pensions Committee.
Good morning, Senator.
Thank you so much for joining me.
And let's
start on that sweeping GOP
bill to raise the debt ceiling.
People might not realize it,
but you have successfully cut
several bipartisan deals
during your time in Congress.
So what do you think
needs to happen to get there now?
On this debt limit fight?
Well, what
Donald, what needs to happen
are two things.
First of all,
everybody in Congress
has got to understand
the United States of America
cannot default on its debt.
And by the way,
a lot of that debt was accumulated
under the Trump administration.
You pay your bills
or else
there will be cataclysmic
economic problems
in the United States
and around the world.
Massive unemployment
and a major recession.
Number two, the president is right.
What we need is a clean debt
ceiling bill.
You pay your bills
and then you can sit down and negotiate.
What a sensible budget is.
What the Republicans are saying
in their budget proposal
is that at a time of massive
income and wealth inequality,
when the richest people are becoming
much richer
while working class
people are struggling.
What they want to do
is to cut programs for nutrition,
for education, and for health care,
throw hundreds
and hundreds of thousands of people
off the health care they need.
Our health care system today.
Is this functional enough?
It is expensive.
To beat up,
you know,
throw people off of health care.
You don't hold those people hostage to.
Yeah.
Forgive me.
Is it now time for President Biden?
To start negotiating on
where the confines are for
any spending cuts
Well, I think we can
start negotiating tomorrow.
But you cannot be holding
the American people or the world's
economy hostage.
What the Republicans have got to say
is absolutely
we are going to make sure that we pay
our debt.
Let's sit down and negotiate a budget.
It is true that House Republicans,
their bill is
only a bill that passed their their House
and it would avoid a debt and a default
excuse me this summer.
Speaker McCarthy is already hammering
Senate Democrats
for insisting on a clean debt
ceiling increase.
And so that has been
the sort of conversation, frankly,
the parties talking past
each other a bit.
Just on the Raw Politics of this.
Are you worried that voters will
start to blame Democrats?
Let me just say this.
Let me just say this
does what Donald Trump wanted
when he was president.
That's what he got.
That's what Ronald Reagan wanted
when he was president.
That's what he got.
You don't hold the country
and the world's economy hostage
over the debt ceiling.
You pay your bills.
This country now.
And what we're trying to do on
our committee
is address
the severe problems
facing the working class in this country.
And what I would hope
the Republicans understand,
there's something wrong
with a health care system
where we spend twice
as much per capita on health
care as the people of any other country.
Let's deal with that.
Not throw people off of health care.
Let's lower
the cost of prescription drugs.
Do they have the guts to take
on the pharmaceutical industry?
Let's raise
the minimum wage in this country
to a living wage.
Let's make it easier for workers
to join unions.
Let's protect senior citizens
by making sure
we can expand
Social Security
and, by the way, demand
that the wealthiest people
in this country start paying their fair.
Are you open to any spending cuts as part
of the ultimate budget deal?
Yeah.
I mean,
I think we
can move toward
cutting military
spending without spending ten times
more than the people
are than any other country on Earth.
Massive cost overruns in the Pentagon.
I'm certainly open
to open to demanding
that the largest corporations
in this country,
in the wealthiest
people start paying their fair
share of taxes.
And I'm willing
to look at any other proposals.
There's a lot of waste within government.
Let's go after it.
But don't go to war
against the working class.
Of this country.
Lower income people don't tell kids
that they can't afford to go to college
or cut back on
public education in America.
We have already too much
inequality in America.
Let's not make it worse.
You mentioned the high
cost of prescription drugs.
You just cut a bipartisan deal
with Republican Senator Bill
Cassidy on a plan
to help
lower prescription drug prices
by increasing access to generic
drugs, increasing transparency
for pharmacy management.
Your your committee
is going to consider this bill this week.
Are you confident that this will get
the 60 votes needed to pass the U.S.
Senate
I think that it will.
But we will say, look, let's be clear.
We pay by far
the highest prices in the world
for prescription drugs.
In some cases,
ten times
more than the people
of any other country.
Pharmaceutical industry
spends billions of dollars
over a period of time.
A campaign contribute
actions on lobbying.
They are very powerful.
So I would say
to my Republican colleagues
and some Democrats,
do you have the guts to finally stand up
to the pharmaceutical industry
and make sure that all of our people
can get the medicine
that they need
and not have a situation
where one out of four Americans,
a one out of four,
can't afford the medicine
that doctors prescribe?
Now, by the way,
this bill, to my mind, is only a start.
The following week,
we're going to bring the major
three of the major CEOs
of the pharmaceutical industry
into the committee.
And we are going to ask them,
among other things,
why is the price of insulin
for diabetics so high?
They've lowered it.
I want to make sure
as a result of public pressure,
they lowered insulin costs.
I want to make sure
that, in fact, translates
into lower prices
for ordinary people who need it.
And I want to see substantially lower
prescription drug prices
across the board.
Cancer drugs out there,
lifesaving drugs cost over $100,000.
Who can afford that?
Senator, President Biden
announced his campaign
officially for reelection this week.
He would be 86 years old
by the end of his second term.
You're one year
older than President Biden.
Is his age something that voters
should consider in 2024
Well, I think when
you look at a candidate
you consider a lot.
I think age is one thing.
I think experience is another thing.
I think your record
that you have established
is another thing.
But to my mind, Donna,
when you put it all together,
what you have to look at is
what does the candidate stand for?
Which side are they on?
Are they on the side
of the billionaire class
or are they
on the side of working people?
Look, it is no great secret.
I ran against Biden.
No great secret
that he and I have
strong differences of opinion.
But when we live in a nation
where you have a major political party,
the Republican Party,
we have many, not all,
but many of their leadership
doesn't even believe in democracy.
They maintain the myth
that Trump won the last election.
They're trying
to keep people from voting.
They're trying to deny women
the right to control their own bodies.
So that's a whole issue out there.
If you believe in democracy,
you want to see more people vote
not fewer people vote.
I think the choice is pretty clear
and the choice is Biden.
And second of all, what I do
believe is the Democrats
and the president
have got to be stronger
on working class issues.
They've got to make it clear
that we believe in a government
that represents all, not just the few.
Take on the greed of the insurance
companies, the drug companies
Wall Street,
all the big money and trust
and start delivering for working
class people. You do that.
I think Biden is going to win
in a landslide.
Senator Bernie Sanders,
thank you so much
for joining me this morning.
Thank you.