This week's primaries once again demonstrated the strength and the
limits of former President Donald Trump's influence over the GOP
to discuss that, and much more. We turn to the analysis of Brooks
and Marcus. That's New York Times columnist David Brooks and Ruth
Marcus, deputy editorial page editor for The Washington Post. Jonathan
Capehart is away. It's so good.
To see both of you on this Friday night, but the subjects are a little
a little tough to talk about. I do want to start David with what
I interviewed the former FBI agent Frank Montoya, about a few minutes
ago. And that are this ongoing this flood of not just strong comments
but threats against the FBI, the Department of Justice since the
search of former President Trump's home How seriously should we be
taking all of this?
I think pretty seriously. I think you made a good case. You know,
I have friends who are FBI agents, and they've been over my house
for dinner and in the middle of dinner, they get a text and they
got to run. These are men and women who are who are just responsible
citizens they take protecting this country very seriously.
Uh and they are patriotic.
And I think, in the case of Donald Trump, it's a bit of projection
that the assumption that nobody is on the level that nobody's just
this. Interestingly, serving the country is maybe a trump mentality.
But it's not the mentality of a lot of people who work for the federal
government. It's not the mentality of most people working the FBI.
They're disinterested. They want to protect the country.
They want to be public servants. They're not particularly political.
And so to portray them as some sort of partisan witch hunt is just
the distortion of reality. And then it becomes dangerous when it
turns into insight. How dangerous is this? I mean the languages and
I was reading some of it a moment ago, Uh, sharing it with the audience,
some of it. It is truly over the top.
It is reprehensible. The quote that you had from the most recent
comments of President Trump calling these atrocities that we know
what atrocities are. And FBI agents conducting a search under the
auspices of a warrant approved by a federal judge are not committing
atrocities. They are actually following the rule of law. And if there's
any party that should recognize this and leap to the FBI's defense
defense of law enforcement. Generally, it's the
Publican party, which has been beating it's chest about, uh
Democrats being soft on crime and and clamoring supposedly for defunding
the police. The FBI are the folks who have been working diligently
before and after 9 11 to keep us safe from foreign terrorists, the
notion that they have somehow been transformed by this or other acts
into the enemy. The enemy that's being targeted by Donald Trump is
just it's beyond the normal gaslighting that we're used to. And it's
a
Color on people who has, David said, really put their lives on the
line, devote their careers up and their family lives to help all
of us.
Well, as we say, it's something it is something that we're watching.
It doesn't seem to be dying down or slowing down
in any way. I do want to bring us tonight to the primaries this week,
David Liz Cheney. There were so many so much focus on her contest
for reelection representing the state of Wyoming in the Congress
he lost by 40.
Points, and I want to ask you both about it. But first, here's just
a clip of just part of what she had to say in her concession speech
on Tuesday night.
I ask you tonight to join me as we leave here, let us resolve that.
We will stand together Republicans, Democrats and independents against
those who would destroy our republic. They are angry and they are
determined.
But they have not seen anything like the power of Americans United
in defense of our Constitution and committed to the cause of freedom.
So David. She's saying that and she went on to describe this this
movement that she's our organization. She's creating to try to stand
up to the former president. But I mean, what are the prospects for
that effort? I mean, how possible is it to change minds?
Well, not very, You know, it's clear she wants to run. She made a
reference to Abraham Lincoln, who served in the house and then ran
for president.
And she'd be a formidable candidate. In some ways. I think she'd
get a lot of funding. She'd get a lot of media attention. The question
should be if she ran for president is first should she Could she
get on the debate stage with Donald Trump? The Republican National
Committee would do everything possible to prevent that. On the other
hand, I don't think there's a mainstream media organization who would
hosted Republican debate.
Without this Cheney on the stage and so that that has some power,
and I assume every non trump candidate
wants around the stage. So if she got on the stage, it would have
power, at least in the national conversation. And so I do think she's
somewhat formula. I think the overall story the last couple of weeks
is that this is once again Trump's party. I really felt that month
or two ago that a lot of Republicans wanted to move on. I no longer
think that I think this is now Donald Trump's party if you want
Is the nomination. He can get it. He will get it.
And, you know, I read an interesting interview with a guy who was,
um uh, consulting with Rhonda Santis, the governor from Florida,
and he said once the FBI did the search on Mara Lago, we sort of
just stepped back.
Because it was clear there was no avenue for anybody but Donald Trump
to get the nomination. I think that's the reality right now.
So, Ruth, you agree. It's Donald Trump's party. And if it is, um
what does that say about what Liz Cheney is trying to do?
Well, it tells us that Liz Cheney is an incredibly brave and a not
uniquely brave person, but an unusually brave person if you compare
her behavior to the behavior of most of her colleagues and elective
office, But Donald Trump has a death grip on the party if you dare
to bought to cross him and then don't at least apologize on bended
knee year political career. Your career in elective offices over
Liz
Cheney understood that
She went into this race, knowing that when she did what she did she
despite being a Cheney here in Wyoming, where I am right now, and
Cheney country because I'm in one of the two counties that actually
voted for her, Um, you are going to lose. She did it anyway, because
she thought it was important to call him to account and that's why
she's flirting with this presidential run. She's not and I'm going
to quote Hillary Clinton, which I never thought I'd do in a sentence
about Liz Cheney. She's not in it to win it as
Ellery Clinton used to say she's in it to stop him to do what she
can to stop him. Is that going to be easy? Certainly on what David
describes as his arch successful march to the nomination? No, but
somebody has got to try and I have to say I am incredibly impressed
and quite honestly thankful for what Liz Cheney has done and is trying
to do David. What arguments work would work in the environment that
we're
In again in a in a Republican, are at a Republican party.
That, as you say, Donald Trump is dominating what arguments would
work against him right now.
I have not encountered that argument. You know what things I thought
was that if you had a bunch of lifelong Republicans
Saying, I'm a Republican. I'm a conservative, but I just don't think
I think Donald Trump is a menace to our democracy and the Lincoln
Project and lots of other people have put up ads and list. Cheney's
a personification of this.
And said.
I know that this guy is a menace to our democracy for X Y and Z reason
that that which at least have some credibility with Republican voters.
The evidence so far is it does not
That Republican voters like Donald Trump. They think the election
the economy was good under Donald Trump. I think it's bad. Now. Their
number one focus is defeating Joe Biden and the Democrats who they
think are out to get them and how to get Donald Trump. It's just
a very rare thing in American life in 2022.
To go against your party.
And to say the focus is someone the real threat right now is someone
in my own party? That's what Liz Cheney did, and I absolutely think
she's right. I think she's incredibly brave. I think the physical
threats against her are real, and she's facing up to those. But they're
just not a lot of Americans who are willing to get go against their
own party in 2022.
And so if there are arguments to persuade pro Trump people not to
be approached from people well, I would say they have not worked
for six or seven years.
But meantime, Ruth a number of the Senate candidates and governor
candidates, for that matter in some states around the country, Um,
that Donald Trump has endorsed are not doing well in those races,
and that was acknowledged just yesterday by the Senate Minority leader,
Mitch McConnell. Here's just a clip of what he had to say, talking
to an audience.
I'm now told We don't have the clip. I'm just the just just cite
to you part of what he said. He said he thinks there's a greater
likelihood that the House would flip to Republican than the Senate.
And he said Candidate quality has a lot to do with the outcome. And,
of course, that's being read as the Trump endorsed candidates or
the ones having difficulty. What does that say to you?
Well, it says to me that that's a potential answer to the question
that you just asked David, which is what if anything, could dissuade
Trump voters and Trump supporters from continuing their support for
him. And the only answer I can come up with. Is this to have leaders
of the party, Um if they are willing and have the fortitude to do
that to come forward and say in more precise and straightforward
language, and Mitch McConnell
Has been willing to. This guy is taking us down for the second cycle
in a row. This guy the former guy is going to deny us or after the
election has denied us control of the Senate. This guy, um is going
to imperil our ability to take back the White House. There are other
people who embody the beliefs that and personality traits even that
you found so compelling and Donald
Friend, But you could have trump without the baggage and that is,
um I am. I'm grasping at straws here, but that's the argument I would
make. I think that I took Senator McConnell's words in his political
analysis to be a kind of Mitch McConnell's version of
Hair on fire moment that he Mitch McConnell more than anything else,
wants to be majority leader McConnell again. He thought he was going
to get that last time. He didn't largely because of Donald Trump
and Donald Trump's insistence on making trouble for candidates, especially
in Georgia, and he's looking at it slipping away from his grasp again.
It very well could that can fairly be tied to Trump ist and Trump.
Backed candidates of Republicans have been able to do this successfully
in getting some of the crazier, more extreme candidates off the ballot,
and, but they're risking the potential to seize control of the Senate
now so and David, what does it say to you that that some of these
trump endorsed candidates could cost the Republicans?
Majority.
Yeah, I see it a little society differently. You know, I I admit
McConnell's absolutely right. Candidate. Quality really matters in
the Senate race, and Herschel Walker and Georgia Dr Rosen, Pennsylvania,
J. D. Vance in Ohio their way under performing
But I don't. I don't think this reflects on Donald Trump. The king
clown somehow makes makes himself electable. The junior clowns have
trouble
and so the people who are pretending to be trump ist are somehow
less persuasive. I don't think this is a sign that we should think
that Trumpism is not super powerful. I think it is. It's just some
of the juniors. The minor league clowns who are
We're just not running up to speed and I do think those races are
really in trouble. And as a result, Mitch McConnell's absolutely
right. The Democrats are much more likely to retain the Senate
keeping all those images in my head tonight and for the weekend.
David Brooks. Ruth. Marcus, we thank you both.