>>> WELCOME BACK. WE ARE EXPECTING TO HEAR FROM
MITCH McCONNELL MOMENTARILY, BUT
LET ME BRING IN CHUCK ROSENBERG.
JOINING ME ALSO IS KEN DELAINEIA
ALONG WITH PETE WILLIAMS.
KEN, LET ME START WITH YOU ON
THE WHOLE BACK AND FORTH ABOUT
THE ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL HERE
IN MATT WHITAKER.
WHAT IS THE ULTIMATE FALLOUT
INSIDE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
WHEN THEY NOW KNOW YOU HAVE
ETHICS OFFICIALS WHO SAID, WELL,
YOU KNOW, IF YOU WERE TO PRESS
US, WE WOULD HAVE RECOMMENDED
RECUSAL, BUT IT’S ULTIMATELY UP
TO YOU.
TO YOU. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN GOING
FORWARD?
FORWARD? >> OH, I THINK IT’S VERY
SIGNIFICANT, CHUCK, BECAUSE, YOU
KNOW, PROSECUTORS TAKE THE
APPEARANCE OF IMPARTIALITY, THE
APPEARANCE OF IMPROPRIETY
EXTREMELY SERIOUSLY.
EXTREMELY SERIOUSLY. THAT’S WHAT YOU HAD HERE.
YOU DIDN’T HAVE A LEGAL REASON
THAT HE HAD TO RECUSE.
YOU HAD A BUNCH OF CRITICISM OF
A PENDING INVESTIGATION.
HE ESSENTIALLY PRE-JUDGED THE
MUELLER INVESTIGATION.
MUELLER INVESTIGATION. NOW HE’S SUPERVISING IT.
AND THE ETHICS OFFICIAL IN THE
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SAID, YOU
KNOW WHAT?
KNOW WHAT? THIS IS A CLOSE CALL, BUT ON
BALANCE, I THINK HE SHOULD STEP
ASIDE.
ASIDE. AND HE SAID, THANKS FOR YOUR
ADVICE, BUT I’M DISREGARDING IT.
NOW, YOU KNOW, HE’S TOLD
ASSOCIATES THAT HE UNDERSTANDS
THAT HE’S UNDER A MICROSCOPE
WITH THIS INVESTIGATION.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. >> EVERY MOVE HE MAKES IS GOING
TO BE LEARNED BY THE HILL.
AND I THINK THAT’S ONE OF THE
REASONS WHY IF YOU NOTICE, HE’S
LEFT ROD ROSENSTEIN ESSENTIALLY
IN CHARGE OF THE SORT OF DAY TO
DAY MANAGEMENT OR SUPERVISORY
ROLE OF THE MUELLER
INVESTIGATION.
INVESTIGATION. BUT HE STILL HAS AUTHORITY OVER
MAJOR DECISIONS LIKE WHETHER TO
SUBPOENA THE PRESIDENT.
AND THE QUESTION IS WILL WE KNOW
IF HE’S BLOCKING ANY OF THOSE
DECISIONS.
DECISIONS. >> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. >> OR WHAT DECISIONS HE’S MAKING
THERE.
THERE. >> CHUCK ROSENBERG, CONSIDERING
THAT THE ETHICS OFFICIALS
CONCLUDED THAT OUT OF AN
ABUNDANCE OF CAUTION,
MR. WHITAKER SHOULD PROBABLY
RECUSE HIMSELF, WHAT WOULD THEY
SAY ABOUT BILL BARR IF HE’S
CONFIRMED TO BE ATTORNEY
GENERAL, CONSIDERING HE WROTE
ESSENTIALLY A LEGAL ANALYSIS FOR
THE PRESIDENT AND HIS LEGAL TEAM
ABOUT THE MUELLER PROBE?
>> YOU KNOW, CHUCK, VERY GOOD
QUESTION.
QUESTION. I MEAN THAT MIGHT COME OUT THE
SAME WAY.
SAME WAY. HERE’S WHAT I MEAN.
WHAT BILL BARR WROTE IS
SOMETHING THAT I STRONGLY
DISAGREE WITH, BUT IT’S NOT
CRAZY.
CRAZY. I MEAN IT’S A VERY ROBUST VIEW
OF THE ARTICLE 2 AUTHORITIES OF
THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE.
SERIOUS, SOBER PEOPLE HOLD THAT
VIEW.
VIEW. I DON’T SHARE IT, BUT I
UNDERSTAND IT.
UNDERSTAND IT. SO THAT SAID, IT MIGHT BE A
SIMILAR SITUATION WHERE THE
ETHICS OFFICIALS SAY TO ATTORNEY
GENERAL BARR, YOU KNOW, THERE’S
NO MANDATORY RECUSAL.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. >> YOU’RE NOT REQUIRED TO STEP
DOWN.
DOWN. BUT SIMILAR TO MATT WHITAKER,
THERE IS AN APPEARANCE ISSUE.
BY THE WAY, GOING BACK TO MATT
WHITAKER AND WHAT KEN SAID, KEN
IS SPOT-ON.
IS SPOT-ON. HIS ANALYSIS IS EXACTLY RIGHT.
YOU DON’T WANT TO GET CLOSE TO
THE LINE WHEN YOU’RE A
PROSECUTOR.
PROSECUTOR. YOU DON’T WANT TO EVEN BE ABLE
TO SEE THE LINE.
SO IF SOMEONE SUGGESTS TO YOU
THAT THERE’S AN APPEARANCE
PROBLEM, THE SMART THING -- THE
PRUDENT THING TO DO IS TO RECUSE
YOURSELF.
YOURSELF. IT’S NOT THAT HARD.
>> CHUCK, LET ME ASK THIS.
I ASKED YOU ABOUT BILL BARR’S
LEGAL ANALYSIS.
LEGAL ANALYSIS. WHAT IF THAT’S COUPLED WITH THE
FACT THAT HE ALSO MET THE
PRESIDENT AND ESSENTIALLY
INTERVIEWED WITH HIM TO BE HIS
LEAD PERSONAL LAWYER IN THE
MUELLER?
MUELLER? ARE THOSE TWO -- NOW THAT YOU
PUT THOSE TWO FACTS TOGETHER, DO
YOU THINK WOULD THAT STILL LEAD
TO THE SAME DECISION, OR DO YOU
THINK THEY WOULD BE OFFICIALLY
MAKING THE RECOMMENDATION THAT
YOU NEED TO RECUSE?
>> YEAH, SO YOU’RE MUCH CLOSER
TO A MANDATORY RECUSAL WHEN
YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT EITHER A
FINANCIAL OR A PERSONAL OR A
POLITICAL RELATIONSHIP.
POLITICAL RELATIONSHIP. IF BILL BARR WAS INTERVIEWED TO
BE TRUMP’S LAWYER, FOR INSTANCE,
I DON’T KNOW THAT TO BE TRUE,
BUT BEAR WITH ME ON THE
HYPOTHETICAL.
HYPOTHETICAL. >> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. >> AND LEARN THEEDED THINGS FROM
PRESIDENT THAT HE WOULD ONLY
HAVE LEARNED AS A PRECURSOR TO
AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT RELATIONSHIP,
I THINK YOU’RE MUCH, MUCH CLOSER
TO A SITUATION WHERE YOU MIGHT
HAVE TO STEP DOWN.
BUT, AGAIN, YOU’RE STILL GOING
TO HAVE AN APPEARANCE QUESTION.
AND WE’RE NOT TALKING ABOUT SOME
TRIAL ATTORNEY IN THE BOWELS OF
THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.
WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES.
BILL BARR IS A VERY PRINCIPLED
MAN.
MAN. I TRULY BELIEVE THAT.
BUT I THINK THERE ARE SOME VERY
SERIOUS QUESTIONS YOU’RE GOING
TO HAVE TO ASK HIM AT A SENATE
CONFIRMATION HEARING, AND I
WORRY DEEPLY ABOUT THE
APPEARANCE OF A CONFLICT.
>> KEN, LET’S MOVE TO YOURS AND
PETE’S SCOOP FROM LAST NIGHT
HAVING TO DO WITH THE MUELLER
REPORT.
REPORT. IT APPEARS TO BE COMING SOONER
RATHER THAN LATER.
WHAT SHOULD THAT TELL US ABOUT
THE REMAINING HANDFUL OF PEOPLE
THAT HAVE NEVER INTERVIEWED WITH
HIM AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN RUMORED
TO BE POTENTIAL TARGETS?
ROGER STONE, DONALD TRUMP JR. IN
PARTICULAR, PERHAPS EVEN A JARED
KUSHNER.
KUSHNER. >> WELL, JARED KUSHNER DID HAVE
A SEVEN-HOUR INTERVIEW.
HI ALMOST FORGOTTEN THAT WHEN I
WAS REVIEWING THE BIDDING HERE.
BUT IT DOESN’T TELL US ANYTHING
DEFINITIVE, BUT MOST LEGAL
EXPERTS WOULD SAY IF YOU LOOK
LIKE YOU COULD BE AN IMPORTANT
WITNESS IN A CASE BUT YOU
HAVEN’T BEEN INTERVIEWED, YOU
MIGHT BE A TARGET.
AND, YOU KNOW, JUST BECAUSE
ROBERT MUELLER, AS WE’VE
REPORTED, IS EXPECTED TO FILE A
REPORT TO THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
BY MID-FEBRUARY DOESN’T MEAN
HE’S NOT ALSO GOING TO FILE A
SERIES OF INDICTMENTS.
WE JUST DON’T KNOW.
IN FACT, I WAS SURPRISED FRANKLY
WHEN WE LEARNED OR WERE TOLD,
AND IT’S NOT JUST LAWYERS IN THE
CASE.
CASE. JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS
HAVE BEEN TOLD TO BE READY FOR
MUELLER TO FILE HIS REPORT IN
FEBRUARY.
FEBRUARY. DON’T FORGET, HE DOES IT
CONFIDENTIALLY TO THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL, WHO THEN DECIDES WHAT
TO DO WITH IT.
AND IT DOESN’T MEAN NECESSARILY
THAT’S THE END OF ALL THE
INVESTIGATIONS.
INVESTIGATIONS. IN FACT, THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT
OF NEW YORK APPEARS TO BE
PROCEEDING ON A DIFFERENT TRACK.
YOU HAVE THE NEW YORK ATTORNEY
GENERAL.
GENERAL. THERE MAY BE LOOSE ENDS OF THE
MUELLER INVESTIGATION.
MUELLER INVESTIGATION. IN ACCOUNT FLA, MIKE FLYNN WON’T
BE SENTENCED FOR AT LEAST THREE
MONTHS.
MONTHS. BUT IT DOES APPEAR WE’RE
REACHING SOME SORT OF END GAME
ON THE CENTRAL QUESTIONS OF THIS
INVESTIGATION, RUSSIA COLLUSION
AND OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
>> CHUCK, ADD YOUR EXPERTISE AS
A FORMER PROSECUTOR HERE.
IF WE KNOW THE REPORT IS COMING
BASICALLY IN ABOUT 50 TO 60
DAYS, HOW WOULD YOU BE FEELING
IF YOU WERE DONALD TRUMP JR.
KNOWING THAT FACT NOW?
>> WELL, I’M NOT SURE I WOULD BE
VERY HAPPY TO BE DONALD TRUMP
JR. UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE,
CHUCK.
CHUCK. BUT, YOU KNOW, GOING AFTER KEN
IS PRETTY EASY BECAUSE I HAVE TO
AGREE JUST WITH THE SMART THINGS
HE SAID.
HE SAID. THERE ARE TEN TACKLES OF THIS
CASE IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE
COUNTRY.
COUNTRY. SO THE MERE FACT THAT MUELLER
MAY WRITE A REPORT OR A PART OF
A REPORT OR A CHAPTER OF THE
REPORT DOESN’T MEAN THERE ISN’T
MORE PROSECUTING AND
INVESTIGATING TO COME.
I THINK THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF
GEORGIA HAS A PIECE.
THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW
YORK CLEARLY HAS A BIG PIECE.
AND BY THE WAY, DON’T FORGET
ABOUT STATE PROSECUTORS,
INCLUDING THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK.
AND SO MY GUESS IS THAT BEING
DONALD TRUMP JR. OR SOMEBODY WHO
IS PART OF THE TRUMP FOUNDATION
OR THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION IS NOT
A VERY COMFORTABLE PLACE TO BE