ARE LEARNING EVERY DAY IN BOOKS
LIKE "NOT MY IDEA."
THEYRE RIGHT AND THEYRE VERY
STRONGLY PUSHING BACK.
>> EDDIE, THIS IS INTERESTING
AND ITS SOMETHING PEOPLE WONT
SAY WHEN THEYRE ON THE
TELEVISION SET, THEY WONT SAY
AT POLITE DINNER PARTIES.
IM NOT SURE WHY THEY WHISPER IT
OR TEXT IT OR E-MAIL IT TO ME,
BUT LIBERAL MEMBERS OF THE
MAINSTREAM MEDIA, DEMOCRATS THAT
ARE HUGE CONTRIBUTORS TO THE
DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND EVEN PEOPLE
THAT WORK FOR DEMOCRATS, IVE
HEARD OVER THE PAST THREE OR
FOUR YEARS, IVE GOT TO GET MY
KID OUT OF THIS PRIVATE SCHOOL.
THEYRE TEACHING MY 7-YEAR-OLD
BOY THAT BECAUSE HES WHITE
HES, YOU KNOW, A RACIST, HES
PART OF THE PROBLEM, ET CETERA,
ET CETERA.
I DONT KNOW IF YOUVE HEARD THE
SAME THING.
IVE HEARD THE SAME THING.
AND, AGAIN, ITS ANECDOTAL BUT
IT SURE DOES SEEM TO MATCH WITH
MORE AND MORE STORIES THAT ARE
GOING OUT THERE.
HOW DO WE SORT THROUGH ALL OF
THIS AND MAKE SURE THAT WE DONT
THROW OUT TEACHING ABOUT SLAVERY
AND TEACHING ABOUT RACISM OVER
THE PAST 400 YEARS, THAT WE
DONT THROW THAT OUT WITH A WAR
AGAINST CRITICAL RACE THEORY AND
ITS EXTREMES?
>> WERE GOING TO MAKE MISTAKES.
THERE ARE GOING TO BE EXTREMES,
THERE ARE GOING TO BE MOMENTS OF
OVERREACH, I GRANT THAT.
BUT PART OF WHAT WE HAVE TO DO
IN THIS MOMENT, JOE, AND WE TALK
ABOUT THIS, IS TO CONFRONT THE
UGLINESS OF WHO WE ARE.
AND PART OF WHAT I HEAR IN THESE
SORTS OF ARGUMENTS IS THIS SENSE
IN WHICH THAT CONFRONTATION MUST
BE WON WHERE WERE COMFORTABLE.
WHERE WE FEEL GOOD ABOUT WHO WE
ARE AFTER WE CONFRONT IT.
IM SCOOTING UP IN MY CHAIR,
JOE, BECAUSE IM GETTING UPSET.
BECAUSE WERE SEEING RIGHT NOW
IN REALTIME A REASSERTION OF THE
LIE.
THE VERY THING THAT KEEPS US
FROM BECOMING A DIFFERENT
AMERICA BECAUSE WE DONT WANT TO
ACCEPT WHO WE ARE, WHAT WEVE
DONE.
>> BUT REASSERTION, THOUGH, OF
WHAT?
I CAN BELIEVE IN TWO AMERICAS.
I CAN BELIEVE THAT 1776 AND 1619
CAN BE MERGED TOGETHER, THAT YOU
CAN BELIEVE TWO THINGS AT ONCE.
I COULD DISAGREE WITH CRITICAL
RACE THEORY, BUT STILL BELIEVE
WHAT YOU AND I HAVE TALKED
ABOUT, THAT WE HAVE A LONG WAY
TO GO TO BEING A JUST COUNTRY
THE WAY THAT THE FOUNDING
DOCUMENTS SAID WE WERE GOING TO
BE.
DO I HAVE TO CHOOSE ONE OR THE
OTHER?
>> NO, NO, NO, NO.
PART OF WHAT IM THINKING, ONCE
YOU CONCEDE THE INITIAL CLAIM
THAT AMERICA IN SOME WAYS COMES
INTO BEING IN LIGHT OF THIS
EXTRAORDINARILY PAINFUL REALITY,
THE CONTRADICTION THAT IS AT THE
HEART OF OUR BEGINNINGS, ONCE
YOU CONCEDE THAT, THE WAY IN
WHICH YOU BEGIN TO THINK ABOUT
AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM SHIFTS,
RIGHT?
BECAUSE ITS NOT THIS IDEA THAT
WE ARE WHOLLY INNOCENT, THAT WE
ARE ABSOLVED OF OUR SINS, THAT
SOMEHOW RECOGNIZING WHO WE ARE
CONDEMNS US TO HELL, THAT WE ARE
BEING BLUDGEONED BY OUR SINS AND
MADE TO FEEL GUILTY.
THATS NOT WHAT WERE SAYING AT
ALL.
BUT YOU HAVE TO CONFRONT IT TO
RELEASE US TO A DIFFERENT
FUTURE.
I WANT TO SAY QUICKLY, THIS SORT
OF ARGUMENT IS HAPPENING RIGHT
NOW, AND I WANT US TO LINK IT TO
JANUARY 6th.
I WANT US TO LINK IT TO THE
ATTACK ON VOTING RIGHTS.
THIS IS, IN EFFECT, IN MY VIEW,
JOE, AN ATTEMPT TO ARREST
SUBSTANTIVE CHANGE IN THE
COUNTRY, AND WE GIVE THESE FOLK
THE CREDIT THAT THEYRE MAKING
THE ARGUMENTS IN GOOD FAITH, AND
I DONT THINK THEY ARE.
ILL SAY IT TO CHRISTOPHER RIGHT
TO HIS FACE.
I DONT THINK THIS IS A GOOD
FAITH ARGUMENT, PERIOD.
>> I THINK THIS IS WHY ITS GOOD
WERE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION,
AND IM GOING TO ASK YOU TWO IF
WE CAN CONTINUE HAVING THIS
CONVERSATION, IF THATS OKAY, IN
THE DAYS AND WEEKS AHEAD.
MY CONCERN, JUST BLUNTLY, EDDIE,
IS THAT THE OVERREACH OFTEN
DRIVES NATURAL ALLIES AWAY.
I HAVE SEEN OVERREACH IN SOME
ARGUMENTS IN MY OPINION.
A LOT OF PEOPLE MIGHT NOT LIKE
ME SAYING THAT.
IVE SEEN SOME OVERREACH ON BOTH
SIDES.
THATS NOT WHAT-ABOUTISM, ITS
THE TRUTH.
AND THATS WHY I WANT US TO KEEP
THIS CONVERSATION GOING AND WORK
THROUGH IT.
CHRISTOPHER, YOU CAN BE AGAINST
CRITICAL RACE THEORY BEING
TAUGHT IN SCHOOL AND STILL
BELIEVE THAT WEVE HAD
SLAVERY -- HAVE BLACK AMERICANS
BEEN OPPRESSED ONE WAY OR
ANOTHER FOR 400 YEARS?
THAT WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO,
THAT WE ARE A NATION THAT HAD
SLAVERY AS ITS ORIGINAL SIN.
ARE THOSE TWO THOUGHTS NOT --
CAN THEY NOT EXIST SIDE BY SIDE?
DO YOU NOT BELIEVE THAT AMERICA
HAS THE SIN OF RACISM AND HAS
FOR 400 YEARS AND WE NEED TO
KEEP WORKING TO GET PAST THAT?
>> OF COURSE, YEAH.
I THINK YOU WOULD BE
HARD-PRESSED TO FIND ANYONE IN
THE COUNTRY WHO DOESNT BELIEVE
THAT.
I THINK THATS OBVIOUS, BUT
AGAIN, THATS JUST THE PREMISE OF CRITICAL RALS THEERCE THEORY.
OF CRITICAL RALS THEERCE THEORY.
THE PREMISE IS THAT WE SHOULD ABANDON FREE SPEECH, THAT WE
ABANDON FREE SPEECH, THAT WE
SHOULD ABANDON THAT IS SOMETHING
WE SHOULD OBJECT.
THE NEA SAYS WE SHOULD REJECT IT
AS A SOURCE OF CAPITALISM, WE
SHOULD REJECT THE IDEA THAT
HUMAN BEINGS ARE THE MOST
IMPORTANT THING IN OUR LIVES.
THEYVE TAKEN THE MOST RADICAL
HARD LEFT IDEALOGIES, NOW
THEYRE INSTITUTING THEM AND
PROMOTING THEM IN ALL 50 STATES.
IM MAKING A GOOD FAITH
DISAGREEMENT WITH MY FOLKS AND
COUNTERPARTS ON THE LEFT, BUT
YOU HAVE TO WAKE UP.
THIS IS NOT JUST CONSERVATIVES
AND REPUBLICANS.
IN FACT, THEYRE CENTER LEFT
LIBERALS IN PLACES LIKE SAN
FRANCISCO AND NEW YORK CITY, AND
ALSO RACIAL MINORITIES,
PARTICULARLY AMERICANS WHO HAVE
BATTLED THIS IN SCHOOLS ALL OVER
THE COUNTRY.
THATS NOT THE DIVISION HERE.
ITS SIMPLY GROUPS OF PEOPLE WHO
DISAGREE ON THIS PHILOSOPHY.
>> EDDIE, WE HAVE TO GO, BUT I
WANT TO GIVE YOU THE LAST WORD.
IM SURE YOU CAN SUM THIS ENTIRE
DEBATE UP IN 15 SECONDS IN GOOD
FAITH.
>> IN ORDER FOR US TO IMAGINE
OURSELVES DIFFERENTLY, WERE
GOING TO HAVE TO CONFRONT
HONESTLY WHO WE ARE, WHAT WEVE
DONE, AND THATS GOING TO
REQUIRE DISCOMFORT.
WERE GOING TO MAKE SOME
MISTAKES ON THE WAY, BUT WE HAVE
TO DO IT, WE HAVE TO GROW UP,
JOE, WE HAVE TO GROW UP AS A
NATION.
>> SO CAN I ASK YOU GUYS TO COME
BACK NEXT WEEK AND CONTINUE THIS
DISCUSSION?
WELL GO LONGER AND ILL GET
INTO MORE SPECIFICS.
THIS IS JUST SORT OF A GENERAL
INTRODUCTION TO A LOT OF PEOPLE
WHO ARE ASKING A LOT OF
QUESTIONS ON THE LEFT AND THE
RIGHT ABOUT THIS ISSUE.
SOUND GOOD?
>> SOUNDS GOOD.
>> ANY TIME.
>> AND JOE, YOU KNOW THE
CONVERSATIONS WE HAD EARLIER IN
THE SHOW ABOUT JANUARY 6th, AS
EDDIE BROUGHT UP AND THE OP-ED
WE READ ABOUT CHINA AND THE
IMPORTANCE OF TRUTH, I THINK