[Meditation bell]
So if you'd like to come up, feel free to raise your hand, and
please, come up.
Jon: Hi. Participant: Hi.
P: I'm having a little struggle
Jon: Uh-huh.
between being in a place where
awareness is infinitely vast,
and deeply silent
and seeing that the fundamental nature my mind is to be silent.
And at the same time, there is still a separation.
Jon: Uh-huh.
P: And so, it's like, when I surrender to that silent awareness,
it's very blissful and pleasant.
Jon: Uh-huh.
P: And yet, when thoughts come up and I get entangled in that,
then I really hate getting entangled in that, and I would
rather not do that. And so I struggle between the two.
And it just-- more than...
Long ago, when my practice was simply going from getting entangled in thoughts
to bringing my attention back to my practice,
Jon: Uh-huh. P: Now it's like, why do I still get entangled in thoughts when I could be here.
Jon: Right.
P: And so it's hard not to be frustrated with that.
And yet it feels like that frustration is a really useless kind of struggle.
And you mentioned earlier about, freedom is--
I forget exactly what you said, like--not rejecting anything.
Jon: That's right. Uh-huh---
P: I'd just like a little direction.
Jon: Sure. Thank you for sharing that-- I just need to get a throat lozenge.
I've just been getting over a little something and, excuse me,
This may help.
I think you made the point very clearly, which is that--
This thing [the lozenge] is a little too big. Sorry. [laughter]
They need smaller ones for talks! [laughter]
Is it kind of loud? Sorry.
[Jon and others laugh]
P: We can wait.
Jon: [It might] take awhile. [Laughter]
[laughter]
They should make smaller Ricolas.
The key is to bring awareness to wherever there's resistance.
And so what you're describing, what I'm hearing, is this--
the frustration of this dynamic that's coming up.
So, not to put attention on the dynamic--
see, that's where people usually go-- but on what I call the blind spot,
which is the fundamental "not wanting that."
P: Yeah.
Jon: If you can just step back and be the awareness that can sense
that frustration, that's where the intimacy that you're looking for will open up.
And there could be something going on here that will also shift and start to open up more.
Because people can get very blissful.
And, you know, they can have a lot of spiritual presence,
but it isn't necessarily embodied completely.
It can be more up here. Not so much in the whole, you know,
heart chakra and lower areas.
So we really want it to be a full-scale embodiment.
P: Uh-huh. Jon: So frustration is ... it's just ... that's where the practice is.
And obviously, it's not easy. It might help to have sitting together like this.
Not just sitting silently on the cushion or whatever,
but to have the mirroring, in a way,
of something that may be held back.
I don't know. Just sometimes, when people become very skilled in presence in a way,
there can be a cutoff here that can happen.
You know what I mean?
P: Uh-huh. It feels like, um ...
this "I, myself, and me," keeps getting in the way.
Jon: Uh-huh.
P: That even my attempt to bring my attention back to awareness is that. Um...
Like, if I just completely surrender into the awareness, then the "I, myself, and me" is not so involved.
Jon: I'm sorry, I couldn't hear the last thing?
P: If I completely surrender into awareness, then the "I, myself, and me" is not so involved. Jon: Uh-huh.
P: And it feels more natural and whole. Jon: Uh-huh.
P: But I can't escape that, either. Jon: Can't escape?
P: I can't escape the sense of myself wanting to make it right. Jon: Right, ok.
Jon: That's the rub. So let's let it just be here.
Jon: See, and then notice that something doesn't want it to be here. P: Uh-huh.
Jon: I mean, the conditioned ego is what it is.
It wants what it wants. It doesn't want what it doesn't want, and it struggles.
Its nature is discontent, fundamentally, right? P: Uh-huh.
Jon: I mean, it's built-in, for survival. Let's face it.
That's its function--is to survive. So it's going to do that.
But, if you're being awareness, that ...
the control of it, the identity of it, loses its sort of foreground position, if you will.
And that's really, what I'm really hearing from you is, you really want
awareness to be the foreground, and let that be background.
P: Yeah. And then I ask myself, probably even that is just
the wrong way of looking at it. Jon: You know, maybe.
But, ultimately, that is what's going to happen.
Jon: At some point the scales tip, and the default setting is awareness. P: Ah.
Jon: So you get... P: Oh good. Jon: Yeah! I know, "When?" Like, how many kalpas, right?
[P: laughs] Jon: [joking] "How many kalpas have we done?"
Jon: No, it's true, and even that sense of when, and that sense of,
you know, this is so ...
I think what's more important, is, how can I say this?
This is so great, that you're bringing this up.
So bear with me. I'm just going to riff on it a little bit.
Whenever we're saying, you know, "How long do I have to go through this?"
"When is it going to make that shift that I've heard is possible,
or some people are saying it happened?" Whatever.
Maybe what's more important, is just to trust that we're not in control of how this works. P: Ah. Uh-huh.
Jon: And if we have some awareness, let's celebrate it. P: Yeah.
Jon: And when we're back in the struggle and the suffering, whatever:
"Ok, we're back in the struggle, and we're pissed off again." Or whatever.
Like, this is not going to sound right, but I'll say it anyway. Like, who cares? P: Uh-huh.
Jon: See that's ultimately really the question: Who cares?
And that isn't what we are. P: Right.
Jon: So we more and more easily return back to the source.
P: Uh-huh.
Jon: And eventually, it's just where we are.
And then the other part sort of plays its little number,
more or less depending on one's conditioning,
and it's just not taken personally anymore. P: Uh-huh.
Jon: See, and I can feel it with you. You've done a lot of practice.
I mean, it's beautiful.
So, I would say, you know, ease up.
P: Ok. [Laughter]
Jon: Give yourself a break. It's happening.
You can just kick back. Relax, and let it happen.
And maybe there is even some, you know, sadness or...
you know, when you devote your whole life to it, or lifetimes or whatever,
you know, there can be deep emotional,
like, "Oh God, I just don't want to be doing this anymore." Right?
P: Uh-huh.
Jon: But, it's happening. It's right here. We're not-- it's beautiful.
P: Yeah. I keep trying to remind myself that it is
that awareness that knows I'm getting caught up in thought. So...
Jon: Say it again?
P: I keep telling myself that it's that awareness that knows I'm caught up in thought. Jon: Yeah.
P: And it's not going away.
P: I mean, it doesn't go away. It doesn't disappear, so, yeah.
Jon: So, just be this awareness that you really are, you know, and
and forgive the part that's caught. Just love it, and forgive it and
give it gratitude, and let it be.
Jon: Let it be "the struggler," "the wanter."
Jon: See, even as I say that, I feel your heart opens more,
like, there's some permission on some deep level that just needs to get wired up.
That's what I'm seeing here that's needed.
That's what's needed. P: Uh-huh. Ok.
Jon: Yeah, nice. P: Thank you very much. Jon: You're very welcome.