- Hey, you guys, welcome to today's video.
I'm so excited because Jamie Ivey is here.
- Hi, Rachel.
- [Rachel] Jamie, thanks for being here.
- So glad to be here.
- Okay so if you're not familiar with her,
you're probably living under a rock
because her podcast, it's like always in the top what?
One, two slots?
- You're nice, thank you.
- It's always there, and you always have great guests.
- Thank you, I enjoy it.
- Okay, so you're in Texas.
- Yes, Austin.
- Austin with babies, kids, well, they're not babies,
they're kids, I say babies.
I mean, they're still your babies.
- They're big, like my son is about to
get his driver's license, so that's where we are.
So I have 16, 15, 14, 12.
New world, you're gonna love it.
- I think so because they can dress themselves.
- They can dress themselves, they can feed themselves,
they can put themselves to bed.
They can survive without you basically.
- It's a good feeling. It's a good feeling for sure.
But you have such, I think through your podcast
and through all the content you do,
you just always bring such light to things in our world.
And so one of the things that I love
is that you talk about creating a life that you love
where you are.
So tell me a little bit about your story,
kinda how you got there.
- Yeah, I think that I've experienced
what a lot of people have experienced
as especially a woman, a woman who's married,
and a woman who has children.
So if you're one of those, then you might understand
what I'm about to say is there are these
seasons in my life where I was at home with kids,
and I remember just thinking like, is this it?
Like, is this what I'm gonna be doing?
And the truth of the matter is, yes, that was it.
And it took me a while to truly believe that that was it,
and it mattered, and it was still good.
And so I had to learn that the hard way.
A lot of tears, a lot of wishing for someone else's life
instead of looking at the life that God had me in
right at that moment.
But I've had to really focus in and learn and think,
okay, how am I gonna be faithful and fruitful
right where I am?
And so that's kind of what I've been learning.
- I love it, so good because, and the seasonal,
that word is so huge because it changes so often,
and your desires change, your heart changes,
your stage of life changes, your kids are changing,
I mean there is, there's so much,
and it can be really hard not to compare yourself,
like you said, to everyone else.
And I talk about comparison, we talk about it so much
here on the show because it's such a huge part
of the money factor that people end up in such debt
to keep up a lifestyle that they think everyone has, right?
But the heart issue is huge,
so you talk a lot about that as well.
And not to play that comparison game.
- And I think when we're comparing each other
quote unquote seasons like we're gonna use,
but they don't look different.
I mean, if we're gonna just talk about seasons in general,
fall in Texas looks a little different
than fall in the northeast, you know what I mean?
And so same season, same time of year,
very different atmosphere.
And so I think the trouble also comes
when you're looking at someone who either
you think you're supposed to be in that season
or life is supposed to look like that and it doesn't,
then you start to think
there must be something wrong with me.
And then you start to compare,
their life seems better because they're where
they're supposed to be, and mine must not be as good.
And I think that's a lie that we have to combat
as women, especially, to look around and, I mean,
to cheer each other on, to be for each other,
but to also look around and go,
what she's doing is not exactly where I have to be
at this moment.
- There's so much truth in that because
it is so exhausting because I've done it.
- [Jamie] Oh, me too.
- And you see someone else doing something,
you're like, oh man, look at their gifting,
and then when you try to do that,
you're like, that's not how God created me.
He did not create me like that, and thank God.
And that's when I feel like you have to almost
be selfish in a healthy way of looking at yourself.
To be like, okay, what are the gifts,
what do I have to offer, what is it in my life
that God's calling me to in this season?
So, finding happiness where you're at is so key to so much.
Now when it comes to the money part,
I see people all the time, I mean,
they change their whole life.
Like, when they find contentment,
they're willing to sacrifice to get out of debt.
They're willing to do things in their life
to change it completely, and it's such the opposite
of like the American dream, like when you go back.
So do you ever see that?
I know you don't speak about money all the time.
- No, but it's true.
- When you interact with people, I'm just curious,
when people find happiness where they're at,
do you see their spending habits change?
- Well, I think that they would for sure.
I've seen it in myself, and I see that
when I'm not constantly yearning to be
somebody that I'm not, because sometimes that takes money
to be somebody that you're not.
I need a new car, I need new clothes,
I need all of these things because that's what she's doing,
so I need that.
So I've found that when I'm more content with who I am,
and how God's gifted me, then I'm like,
I don't have to have that to be successful
even though she has it.
And the truth is, I don't even know how she has it.
Maybe she makes a lot of money, you know what I mean?
And so that's fine if she has it.
So it's this line of like, I don't care if you have that,
but if I'm desiring that just so I can be like you,
I think that that really affects our money,
and so not doing that is going to help you save more money.
- Yes, and that's like the difference between,
I heard, jealousy and envy.
Jealousy is like, oh, I want what you have.
Envy is I want what you have,
and I don't want you to have it.
- That, like, hurts me.
- Yeah, that envious spirit, it's a good checkpoint
to think through when you see people having stuff.
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So what other ways do you feel like
really climbing out of that comparison trap?
Because again, I talk about it on like the money side,
and how to find that contentment in your heart,
but I think the life, your life and comparing others,
I mean, it's still so huge.
- One thing that's been really helpful for me
is that I found is that when I am really for somebody,
and I'm cheering them on,
it's really hard for me to be jealous of them.
When I think professionally and I see someone who,
their career is just taking off,
and they are killing it,
when I can be a friend to them and be
genuinely excited for them,
that kills the jealousy in my heart
because I cannot be for someone, cheering for them,
and want their life, and be jealous for them
at the same time; they can't coexist.
- Yeah, and I think for women, too,
that whole statement, what you just said,
I mean, that's within parenting,
that's within marriage, like you're saying,
or if you're single, career, all of it, like it is.
But there's a level of security that you have to feel
within yourself to even be able to do that.
Because you wrote a new book called You Be You,
which I want to talk about,
but what work did you do to find that security
in who you are and that identity?
Which is huge, because you have to get that first,
then, to be able to overflow and say,
yep, I can cheer you on because I really really am
genuinely content and believe that
I am where I'm supposed to be for a reason.
- Yes, so I kinda go thrown into this world
of podcast scene and speaking and writing.
A lot of my friends were already doing that,
and so there was a lot of insecurity
that I brought to the table because
I didn't know what to do.
And I found out really quickly that I can't be them.
Because I would try, and I would get off the stage
and feel like a failure, a fake, a fraud,
and I had to come to the conclusion that
if anybody wants me to do anything,
if they wanna listen to my podcast,
if they wanna watch me on YouTube,
if they wanna read my books,
they actually want me.
And so I had to put to death a lot of ideas
of what I should be like because my other friends
were successful in what they were doing.
That concept and idea, I wish that happened overnight,
but that was a battle over years
of me trying to figure out what is my voice,
where can I use it to be the best?
And you know what, Rachel?
I look back and I didn't get a voice
when I started having a public platform.
Like, I've had the same voice my whole life.
I was implementing it on my children in the home,
I used to teach fifth grade Sunday School,
I was implementing those.
I was a teacher, I volunteered at the county jail.
So voices don't just happen for people on stages,
or people with microphones.
- That's right, yep.
- Everybody has a voice and has influence
right where they are, and I think the sooner
we can figure that out, the sooner we can
really trust God and be satisfied
with where He's put us.
- That is such truth because I've even said
just recently, probably over the last two years,
I've realized just within my work,
because, and I think this is a unique place to be,
for me too, right?
For years starting this, I was like,
okay, what do people want because they expect Dave Ramsey.
That's my dad, right, and I'm like,
so you kinda craft and figure out,
well, he does this and this, yeah, yeah, yeah,
and then over time I'm like, no, no, no,
I'm not a bald 60-year-old man.
That is not me. That is not my personality.
Like there's parts of him that are great, I love it.
But that's no.
So it was weird comparing myself to a man.
- And your dad.
- Yes, yes.
But then going through that journey, and it is,
it's a journey, and then realizing,
it probably hit me about two or three years ago
where I was like, I leave work energized.
Because I realized I don't have to work to be someone else
and there is such life in that.
And like you're saying, it's not that you have to do that,
if you have a camera in your face all the time,
but if you live your life,
even as a stay-at-home mom,
when you go to playdates with kids,
if you're leaving there exhausted
because you're trying to be someone else,
it's not good for them, and it's not good for you.
So You Be You is so-
- I'm gonna give you a practical example.
You know when people, they have meal calendars,
like they have a baby or whatever.
I used to always sign up for them because
here's what I thought, I am a woman,
I don't know why that made me think
I had to sign up for it.
I'm a Christian, so maybe I should serve people.
My husband's a pastor, so you know,
I'd be like, okay, I'll bring a meal.
I would be anxious because I don't cook.
- Jamie, we're the same person.
I give gift cards away. I'm like,
you go get you some delivery dudes,
you takeout whatever you want, I'll pay for it.
- So I don't cook, but I would sign up
and then I'd be in the kitchen,
and my husband would come home,
and he's the one that cooks,
and so he'd come home and be like, what are you doing?
I'm like, they had a baby and I'm taking them a meal.
And he's like, what are you doing?
I'm like, I don't know, can you please help me?
And then he's mad because he's having to cook meal
for somebody else.
I'm anxious, and then I show up at their house
with this meal that no one should eat,
and I am a wreck.
And so I had to learn, literally,
I will never be that woman at your church
who brings you a homemade meal.
It's just not what I do.
There's other things I can do.
I can send you a gift card,
I can pray for you, I can do lots of other things,
I can't do that.
And it's small things like that that I think
that seems insignificant,
but it was actually really major for me
to realize that I don't have to fill in
what I think I'm supposed to do
because I'm a woman, Christian, pastor's wife.
I just don't have to do that because
it's not what I'm good at.
- Did you have people in your life that
helped you along the way in that?
Because I think that's a big,
I mean, not just the meal thing,
but that undercurrent I think, specifically, as a woman,
you get in these sectors of culture
and those demands and those labels are so heavy on you,
and so I know I have a few girlfriends,
and I feel like we just have great relationship,
they know everything, I know everything about them,
and we can kind of just level with each other,
and we have the same value system, which helps.
But for the woman that's listening
that may not have that, how do you recommend
her kind of walking out of that?
Because, man, those labels and the expectation
of what you should be is so heavy.
- It's so heavy.
I think one of the things is trying to
maybe sit down and do this little
pros and cons type thing, like,
what are the things I think I should be,
and then what are actual nonnegotiables?
Like, I have to be a nice person, you know what I mean?
- I need to be kind.
But kindness doesn't equal a casserole.
That's what I had to figure out.
People will say being kind equals this, this, and this.
And I had to come to the realization of
being kind equals I'm kind in the ways
that best serve me, and that's been so good for me.
To be like, I'm not gonna choose to live in guilt or shame.
My husband helps me with that,
is that he's not putting these
here's what you should be doing,
he's like, I know, I see your gifts, live in them.
And so that has been helpful for me,
and then just those girlfriends too
that can know when I'm trying to be me,
or when I'm trying to become someone else,
and they're like, I'm not having any of that.
You need to not do that because, I don't know,
that doesn't even sound like you, Jamie,
what are you doing?
And so having those girlfriends to come alongside
has been really helpful.
- Yes, but the community and so finding that.
Like if you need that in your life,
it's so so important.
We're not created to walk alone,
and when you're tackling subjects like this,
that is a lot, it's a lot.
But man, having those people to speak into your life
is so massive.
Okay, so part of your book is called On Becoming You.
And I love this because you say,
who am I becoming, instead of being consumed with
what I am doing.
So what you're doing is one thing,
and it's celebrated so much in our culture today,
like what you're doing, oh you're doing this,
and this, and this, but who am I becoming,
is the inner work.
So kinda talk me through that.
- That kinda came, that chapter was birthed,
I was having a conversation with a friend
and she was, in my eyes, she was killing it.
She was writing great material for our church,
she was involved in a bunch of different ministries.
I mean, I would look at her and think,
you are just doing exactly
what you're supposed to be doing.
And she quit, and I was like, what happened?
And she said, I looked in the mirror,
and I didn't like who I was becoming.
And I said, what do you mean?
She goes, I was just working, working, working.
I was just doing so many good things
that I wasn't becoming a better follower of Jesus.
I wasn't becoming more in love with Him.
And that stuck with me, and it made me think,
okay, what about my life?
Am I just concerned with what I'm doing?
Because we can get to the end of our life,
I mean, we all know this,
you can get to the end, you're on your deathbed,
and you have a lot of accolades,
you have accomplished a lot,
you have done a lot, people would look at you and go,
that is a successful woman.
But what if deep in your heart you realize,
I'm miserable, I'm unhappy,
I don't have real close relationships
because all I did was either work or parent
or be a wife, whatever, fill in the blank.
I don't have close relationships.
I don't love Jesus any more than I did when I was 40.
I mean, that scares me.
I do not want to get there.
And so I think something that I've had to do,
and that I talk about in my book,
is to focus more on what is happening on the inside.
Because people just see the outside.
Like, honestly, I can see all the amazing things
Rachel Cruze is doing.
But who you're becoming, that is between you and the Lord.
And honestly, I also think that is what's gonna
rise up when we get into tough situations.
Doing is great. You love your job. I love my job.
But when all of our jobs get canceled-
- Who are you? - [Jamie] Who are you?
- Yes, amen, sister.
- And so I'm learning, I'm fighting that
because it's hard, it's really hard.
- And your identity, whether, and again,
we're in unique careers because it's public facing,
but that identity can be in every, room mom,
I mean seriously, like, it is such a big thing.
And I've always said that about, gosh,
about so much of my life.
My career is probably the number one in my head
when I say this because it's the most probably out there,
and that's a healthy checkpoint, and it is.
And it's just like, man, there's such power
in the character and what is going on in you.
So you be you.
- You be you!
- Right, Jamie?
Okay, your new book, You Be You, I love the title,
I read that, I was like, yes, it's so good!
Okay, where can we go pick it up?
- [Jamie] Anywhere you buy books.
Jamieivey.com is my webpage,
you can find everything there.
And I hang out on Instagram a lot, so I like Instagram.
But you can get it wherever you get books.
- Yeah, and your podcast?
- Podcast, The Happy Hour With Jamie Ivey,
super fun, I'm glad you listen.
- I do, I love it.
- It's so fun, I love it so much.
- Well, you're doing incredible work.
Jamie, thanks for being here, and I'm so excited
for the new book. - Thanks Rachel.