>>> WELCOME BACK. THE PANEL IS HERE.
JOSHUA JOHNSON, HOST OF 1A ON
NPR, DANIELLE OF THE AMERICAN
ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE, NBC NEWS
NATIONAL POLITICAL
NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, AND PETER BAKER
OF "THE NEW YORK TIMES."
THERE’S TWO WAYS TO LOOK AT
THESE SHUTDOWN PROPOSALS.
ONE IS IT’S GOING NOWHERE.
THE OTHER IS MARK WARNER SAID
THERE, OKAY, I’M WILLING TO
ACCEPT THE PRESIDENT AS THE
STARTING POINT.
STARTING POINT. HE MADE AN INCH TOWARDS THE
DEMOCRATS.
DEMOCRATS. DEMOCRATS MADE AN INCH.
IT’S NOT HALF FULL, BUT THERE’S
CONDENSATION.
CONDENSATION. >> FOR 29 DAYS, ALL WE HAD WAS
GIVE ME THE MONEY OR DON’T GIVE
ME THE MONEY.
IT WAS ONE THING ON THE TABLE.
NEITHER SIDE WAS BUDGING.
NOW WE’RE PUTTING OTHER THINGS
ON THE TABLE.
WE’RE EXPANDING THE PROBLEM SO
THERE, IN FACT, CAN BE MULTIPLE
ASPECTS TO GIVE EACH SIDE
SOMETHING THEY CAN LIVE WITH.
YOU CAN SEE THE MAKINGS OF A
DEAL HERE.
DEAL HERE. YOU’RE RIGHT.
YOU’RE RIGHT. AT THE MOMENT, IT DOESN’T SEEM
LIKE IT’S LIKELY TO HAPPEN IN
THE NEXT 24, 48 HOURS.
THEY’RE STILL STUCK ON I’M NOT
GOING TO NEGOTIATE ON THAT, I’M
NOT GOING TO NEGOTIATE ON THIS.
IF THE PRESIDENT WANTED A DEAL,
I’M NOT SURE COMING OUT ON
TELEVISION TO MAKE THE FIRST
PROPOSAL IS THE WAY TO DO IT.
I’M NOT SURE REJECTING IT BEFORE
IT WAS MADE IS THE WAY TO DO IT.
YOU CAN SEE THE BEGINNINGS OF
NEGOTIATIONS.
NEGOTIATIONS. WE’RE NOW IN A PLACE WHERE
PEOPLE ARE BEGINNING TO MOVE.
>> SO HERE’S WHAT HAPPENED.
BASICALLY, JARED KUSHNER AND
MIKE PENCE WERE UP ON THE HILL
THIS WEEK.
THIS WEEK. THEY MET WITH MITCH McCONNELL.
THEY LEFT, MITCH McCONNELL
PICKED UP THE PHONE AND CALLED
THE PRESIDENT AND SAID, MR.
PRESIDENT, NANCY PELOSI IS NOT
GOING TO BUNCH.DGE.
YOU’VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING TO
SHAKE THIS UP.
JUST PUT SOMETHING ON THE TABLE.
THIS IS WHOLLY A PROPOSAL FROM
THE WHITE HOUSE.
THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
EVEN THOUGH WE SAW SOME MOVEMENT
IN TERMS OF THE WALL ITSELF, THE
PRESIDENT CONCEDING FOR THE
FIRST TIME THIS IS NOT A
CONTIGUOUS WALL, ALSO GIVING A
LITTLE BIT ON DACA, IT IS NOT
ANYWHERE CLOSE TO WHAT THE
DEMOCRATS WOULD WANT IN TERMS OF
THE MONEY BEING DIRECTED TOWARDS
THE INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDED AT
PORTDS OF
PORTDS OF PORTD
PORTD PORTS OF ENTRY, DRONES, MORE
PEOPLE AT THE BORDER.
THERE IS STUFF IN THERE ON
INCREASED BORDER SECURITY THAT’S
NOT WALL, BUT THEY’RE STILL FAR
APART ON THE SPECIFICS.
HERE’S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.
YOU HEARD MARK WARNER SAY THIS.
ACCORDING TO THE DEMOCRATS I’VE
TALKED TO, THEY REALLY ARE GOING
TO STAY UNITED WHEN IT COMES TO
THE PRINCIPLE OF THIS
NEGOTIATION TAKING PLACE WHEN
THE GOVERNMENT IS OPEN AND NOT
CLOSED.
CLOSED. >> INTERESTING.
>> INTERESTING. WELL, CLOSE, NO?
YOU DON’T SEE PROGRESS?
>> DON’T LOOK AT ME.
AND LET’S BE CLEAR.
NO ONE IN THIS ROOM KNOWS WHEN
THE SHUTDOWN IS GOING TO END.
LET’S KNOCK THAT RIGHT OUT.
THERE’S NO CLEAR PATH.
I THINK PART OF THE REASON IS
BECAUSE THIS IS NO LONGER PURELY
PRAGMATIC OR PRACTICAL POLITICS.
THIS IS A MORAL ISSUE.
I THINK THE SHUTDOWN IS KIND OF
A SYMPTOM OF SOMETHING LARGER.
THE WALL IS A CAMPAIGN PROMISE
THE PRESIDENT MADE TO PLAY ON
SOMETHING VERY DEEPLY HELD THAT
HIS POLITICAL BASE FEELS.
IF YOU WANT TO LOOK FOR AN IMAGE
THAT SPEAKS TO THIS, IT’S
PROBABLY THOSE PROTESTERS WHO
WERE ON THE STEPS OF THE LINCOLN
MEMORIAL, THE NATIVE AMERICAN
MAN BEATING THE DRUM, NATHAN
PHILLIPS, AND THOSE KIDS AND THE
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN HATS
THAT WERE KIND OF SMIRKING AT
HIM AND LOOKING DOWN THEIR NOSES
AT HIM.
AT HIM. THAT’S THE REAL EMBLEM OF THIS.
THIS IS ABOUT XENOPHOBIA.
FOR MANY AMERICANS, THIS IS
ABOUT RACE.
ABOUT RACE. THIS IS ABOUT RHETORIC THAT’S
REACHED A POINT WHERE IT’S
GROUND THE GOVERNMENT TO A HALT.
NANCY PELOSI SAID A WALL IS AN
IMMORALITY.
IMMORALITY. HOW DO YOU MAKE A POLITICAL
SOLUTION TO A MORAL QUANDARY?
IT SEEMS LIKE THE ENTIRE
POLITICAL ESTABLISHMENT HAS
PAINTED ITSELF INTO A PLACE
WHERE THE PRACTICAL NATURE OF
POLITICS COULD SOLVE THIS.
FOR MANY AMERICAN, FOR MANY
PEOPLE OF COLOR, FOR THE
ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZS IN
THIS COUNTRY, THEY’RE TIRED OF
THESE SOLUTIONS.
THESE SOLUTIONS. >> HE BROUGHT UP PERHAPS THE BOX
DEMOCRATS HAVE PAINTED
THEMSELVES IN, THE MORALITY.
THEN YOU HAVE THE "A" WORD WHEN
IT COMES TO THE RIGHT, WHICH IS
AMNESTY.
AMNESTY. ANY LITTLE PROTECTION FOR
ANYBODY THAT’S NOT HERE LEGALLY
IS SOMEHOW AMNESTY.
THE PRESIDENT TWEETED THIS, THIS
MORNING.
MORNING. NO, AMNESTY IS NOT PART OF MY
OFFER.
OFFER. IT IS A THREE-YEAR EXTENSION OF
DACA.
DACA. AMNESTY WILL BE USED ONLY ON A
MUCH BIGGER DEAL, WHETHER ON
IMMIGRATION OR SOMETHING ELSE.
LIKEWISE, THERE WILL BE NO BIG
PUSH TO REMOVE THE 11 MILLION
PLUS PEOPLE HERE ILLEGALLY.
BUT BE CAREFUL, NANCY.
THE AM NECESSARY SI WORDNESTY WO
SPLINTER THE RIGHT.
>> THERE’S A LOT OF HISTORY
BEHIND THESE IMMIGRATION
PROBLEMS.
PROBLEMS. IT’S NOT JUST SOMETHING THAT
CAME UP BETWEEN DONALD TRUMP AND
NANCY PELOSI.
NANCY PELOSI. THIS GOES BACK TO 1986 AND THE
ORIGINAL DEAL THAT WAS STRUCK
WITH THE REAGAN ADMINISTRATION,
WHICH MOST PEOPLE DON’T EVEN
REMEMBER.
REMEMBER. THAT WAS THE AMNESTY QUESTION.
YOU KNOW, I THINK WHAT WE’VE
SEEN IS THAT WHILE DONALD TRUMP
HAD PAINTED HIMSELF INTO A
CORNER, THE REALITY IS WE MAY
NOT LIKE IT.
WE MAY NOT AGREE WITH HIM, BUT
ME HAS MOVED.
AND IT IS A MISTAKE ON THE PART
OF THE SPEAKER TO COME OUT OF
THE BOX AND NOT ACCEPT THE IDEA
THAT WE LIKE THE IDEA OF A
THREE-YEAR EXTENSION.
THREE-YEAR EXTENSION. SURE, WE WANT TO DO BETTER.
WE COULD ACCEPT A 700-MILE OR SO
BORDER, A FENCE.
THE DEMOCRATS, EVERY SITTING
DEMOCRAT IN THE SENATE, VOTED
FOR JUST SUCH A THING A MERE
FIVE YEARS AGO.
THE PROBLEM THAT YOU HAVE IS
WHEN YOU START SUGGESTING THAT
ANYONE WHO WANTS A WALL -- OR
NO, NOT ANYONE.
I DON’T WANT TO BE UNFAIR TO
YOU.
YOU. MANY WHO WANT THIS ARE RACIST,
IT CAUSES A REAL HARDENING ON
THE OTHER SIDE.
THERE ARE PLENTY OF PEOPLE,
INCLUDING 35-PLUS DEMOCRATIC
SENATORS, WHO WANTED A WALL,
SIGNED UP TO A WALL, AND WHO I
DON’T THINK ARE RACISTS.
>> BOTTOM LINE, IF YOU TAKE THE
EMOTION OUT OF THIS DEBATE, IT’S
SOLVED TOMORROW.
SOLVED TOMORROW. >> EXACTLY RIGHT.
I THINK JOSH’S POINT IS EXACTLY
RIGHT.
RIGHT. WHAT USED TO BE A RELATIVELY
PRAGMATIC DISCUSSION ABOUT A
LITTLE OF THIS, A LITTLE OF
THAT, IN 201606, MANY DEMOCRATS
VOTED FOR FENCING.
TODAY IT HAS BECOME A MORAL
ISSUE ON BOTH SIDES IN DIFFERENT
WAYS.
WAYS. VERY HARD TO MEET IN THE MIDDLE.
>> THERE ARE EXPERTS WHO DO
BELIEVE THERE ARE CERTAIN KIND
OF BARRIERS IN CERTAIN PARTS OF
THE BORDER THAT MAKE PERFECT
SENSE.
SENSE. WE INTERVIEWED A BORDER PATROL
EXPERT ON OUR PROGRAM WHO SAID
ESPECIALLY IN URBAN AREAS WHERE
THERE ARE PLACES FOR SMUGGLERS
TO DUCK AND DIVE, PHYSICAL
BARRIERS CAN MAKE A REAL
DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF SECURING
THE BORDER.
THE BORDER. SAYING IT’S INHERENTLY IMMORAL
MAY BE TRUE IN SOME PEOPLE’S
HEARTS, BUT THERE ARE PRAGMATIC
WAYS IN WHICH CERTAIN KINDS OF
BARRIERS ALONG CERTAIN PARTS OF
THE BORDER HAVE HELPED.
>> THERE’S A DEAL TO BE HAD.
IT’S NOT GOING TO BE HAD
ACCORDING TO DEMOCRAT WHEN IS
THE GOVERNMENT IS CLOSED.
JUST THIS WEEK YOU SAW OTHER
CONSERVATIVE BASE GROUPS SAY
LET’S HAVE A SHUTDOWN OVER
PLANNED PARENTHOOD FUNDING.
THIS REALLY IS, FOR DEMOCRATS,
ABOUT THE PRINCIPLE.
>> IF THIS CONTINUES TO GO ON,
WHICH PARTY IS MORE VULNERABLE
TO SEEING MORE SPLINTERING OFF
HERE?
HERE? I FEEL LIKE YOU’VE GOT THOSE
TRUMP HOUSE DEMOCRATS.
YOU’VE GOT THOSE SENATE
REPUBLICANS IN BLUE STATES.
SEEMS LIKE THEY’RE BOTH WOBBLY
HERE.
HERE. >> I THINK RIGHT NOW NANCY
PELOSI IS AT MORE RISK BECAUSE
SHE’S FACING EXACTLY WHAT TWO
REPUBLICAN SPEAKERS FACED UP TO,
WHICH IS HER OWN VERSION OF THE
FREEDOM CAUCUS, HER OWN VERSION
OF THE TEA PARTY WHO ARE GOING
TO TURN ON HER LIKE VIPERS.
>> I THINK MITCH McCONNELL’S
MOVE HERE WITH GETS TRUMP TO
MAKE THIS PROPOSAL WAS ALSO
MEANT TO MOVE THIS TO THE
SENATE.
SENATE. SO I WOULD LOOK TO THOSE SENATE
DEMOCRATS, THOSE MODERATE
DEMOCRATS, WHICH IS WHY I
REACHED OUT TO JOE MANCHIN LAST
NIGHT.
NIGHT. HE GAVE A VERY KIND OF NEBULOUS
STATEMENT, BUT IT DID STAY LET’S
OPEN THE GOVERNMENT, WHICH
BRINGS ME BACK TO THE SAME POINT
I KEEP MAKING.
>> AND AS YOU HEARD MARK WARNER