Going back to people like Simon, just them seeing you and believing your ability.
That's definitely, I think, a major key.
Like, that's why I would want to make sure that during my journey
I mentor as much people as possible.
Initially as a Floor Runner. That was my initial way into the industry.
I started off as a Floor Runner, and then I started Thirding,
and now I Second and First as well as Produce.
But yeah, that was my, my journey in, I guess.
And how did you get the Top Boy opportunity.
So because I did season one, season two and also season three.
But let's go back to season two. Because I did season one,
I had that rapport and that connection with the producers and a lot of the crew.
On other productions for sure, every single production
that I've gone into, I've always made it a thing where I go
and find out who the producer is and I introduce myself because
when I started off in the industry, I wanted to produce.
That was my end goal.
That was the only thing I wanted to do, and I saw myself doing.
So I'd often go in, even if I was just there for the day,
I’d look at the call sheet, find out who the producer is, maybe try and get
hold of the unit list, sneaky, and try and get their details of it,
and then contact them later on down the line.
So I came up quite a traditional route, I guess like in terms of...
I went to Bournemouth Arts where I did four years of film production.
Specialised in directing at the end of it.
And then I did an MA at the NFTS,
and I was still at NFTS when I got the mentee scheme for season one of Top Boy.
I came from a PA-ing background, so you know, like, organising calendars
setting calls, teas and coffees, all of that stuff above and beyond.
So yeah, but it kind of taught me...
I had my pockets in, like, different areas of the company.
I used to work for a company called Misfits Entertainment.
And it just taught me a lot about like how to pitch things,
how to like create treatments, how to just communicate within this
industry and navigate it, which is a jungle for me personally.
So yeah, that's what I was kind of doing before ITV Fresh Cuts. But before then
I did a short film for the Roundhouse as part of their like Film Fund as well.
So I had a little bit of experience in filmmaking, but not a ton.
There's so many different ways to become a producer.
There's not one way,
and I think someone taught me earlier on in my career,
and I wish I would have probably listened to them a little bit closer,
but they were saying, if you want to produce,
if you want to direct, just go out there and start producing.
So that's probably the biggest thing that I would say to you guys
that are sat watching us and looking at us thinking,
Oh my gosh, I wish I could do something as amazing as them.
Just go out there and do it.
Because what's holding you back, at the end of the day?
There's so many opportunities, so many people that you can work with.
Not only in your local area, but also within the industry.
So I started off in the industry...
I'm from Derby originally and I moved to Birmingham
just because I wanted a new start again. Not much happens in Derby.
And yeah, I just used to watch loads of documentaries
and just like, you know, was about 18, 19,
really kind of, like, you know, went to university, did things and did a course
in psychotherapy and counselling and gotten to do a foundation degree in that.
But then I just kind of felt like, you know what,
I really want to make films, but I don't know how to do it.
So I literally searched like BBC on Twitter
and I found this BBC Get In event that was happening at The Mailbox
in Birmingham and I just kind of, like, actually snuck off, like, from my lunch break.
And actually I used my lunch break to go there and then I ended up like speaking to this
production manager, Elena Stojkovic, who runs the BBC Academy Scheme there.
And she said if you've got ideas like just apply for this apprenticeship scheme.
And I was like, I don't know if I'm good... my ideas aren’t good enough.
Anyway, I did it and I ended up getting in.
And I moved to London and I did like a year long apprenticeship
where I was working as like a runner across
BBC Three productions and I learnt how to edit there
and then I got my first job in... as being a production secretary
at IMG Media. And I kind of felt a bit like, okay. So I've moved to London,
I want to kind of be a filmmaker, but I'm not kind of really filmmaking.
So I ended up researching another scheme and ended up getting a scholarship,
studied at National Film and Television School. I think Simon Broadley, who actually
did the course at NFTS, was probably my biggest mentor in terms of my journey
because he kind of said like, you know, your CV is like shit,
like, this is how you structure your CV,
if you want to work in the media and I didn't know any of that stuff.
So I think a lot of this is like confidence as well.
I think you really have to kind of like believe that you are a filmmaker,
literally, even if it is like you’re using your iPhone to make this because
cameras are expensive when you first start out. You’re making a film. So yeah.
Sometimes I guess when you get rejected in the industry,
which is just the nature of it, that’s just because it's a competitive industry.
That can make you be a bit like, oh, actually is this really for me?
And so I think going back to people like Simon, just them seeing you
and believing your ability, that's definitely, I think, a major key.
Like that's why I would want to make sure that during my journey
I mentor as much people as possible because yeah, I think we all can relate.
It can get tiresome if you get the news.
He helped so much. My CV was the biggest one
because I literally didn't know why I was getting so many rejections.
Helped me with my CV, I think he helped me
sort of like think about the skills that I had maybe outside of TV as well.
You can all get quite artsy in TV and quite filmy, in terms of the language that we use,
but actually just
having people skills, being able to actually like use interpersonal skills.
So that kind of counselling background that I came from definitely helped.
I think a lot of the films that I kind of want to make were a bit out there
Hence, why I guess my first film was about Brazilian butt lift surgery.
And I didn't know if I was quite fitted for the current affairs market.
And I think he kind of helped me to believe that actually that’s your whole USP.
You've got a background in helping people with sensitive things,
so if you want tell sensitive stories, do that. That's different.
So just interested in how the mentor scheme worked for you guys on Top Boy
and how that supported you through that process.
I guess it's like a parent taking your hand in that and saying,
Look, I'm with you every step of the way.
My-- The producer that was mentoring me was Tina.
She's also from Derby, obviously. Derby is very...
Yeah, it’s like crazy.
It's like you come to London,
you meet all these people from Derby, it’s like, you all are hiding.
So I guess for me it was her
assessing what my strengths and weaknesses are,
seeing where I'm at, and also helping me to get to where I want to be.
Those are the things that I said I'd say
I got out of my time being with her
and also not just with her, but also the connections that she has.
You know, the execs, the directors, the writers,
the whole family that comes with being on a film set.
It's not a case of like a weekly check in or a monthly check in.
At least that's what I found.
Yeah, it was whenever I sort of needed a bit of support and a bit of help,
it was always there and it wasn’t just from... again....
Yes, I'm a producer, but... and I think often people think that, oh,
you need to have a producer that's a mentee.
But there's so many things you can learn from a load of different people,
from a different...
even people that are mechanics, for example, they could be your mentee.
I know it sounds really crazy, but someone that runs their own business,
you know, they could have like budgeting skills that you might not have.
So it's not just people within the industry
that can be your mentee as well.
It's often people that don't understand the industry that might actually be more
beneficial to you.
But I remember, though, I went up to Charles and Ali,
who are the producers and the execs of Top Boy, and also Yvonne, at the time,
she was the series producer, and I just said, Can I please do some second unit?
And they were like, Oh yeah, we'll think about it. We’ll see.
Eventually I kept pushing
and just asking every week and I asked Aneil, look, can I do some second unit?
And yeah, like, “you don’t ask, you don't get”. And if you don't persist,
you don't get response. So I kept persisting.
Eventually they... yeah, they relented and they gave me
a full day of second unit, which involved working with Jasmine Jobson
and Joshua Blissett, who at the time were like,
you know, secondary characters, but they were so generous.
And, you know, I had a full crew and it was a bit intimidating,
but it was also just a really good confidence boost.
And then, yeah, doing the second unit I think helped massively
in terms of my next steps because
it just... It made me feel like, okay, I can do this, that’s fine.
And I think it made the producer, see, okay, she can do this.
So then I got... that's how I got the job for the next season. Doing one episode.
I had a Aneil Karia who...
So he did the last three episodes.
Yeah, he did the last three episodes of the season and it was very much
just being a bit of a sponge and observant.
There were times where I realised he was also learning stuff,
and it felt so freeing to see him ask questions
I would have asked at the time. And it made me not afraid to ask questions
that you know you perceive as being stupid when you actually get on set.
Quite actually, like you, I never had like an actual mentor.
Like I had different people in different areas,
just kind of lending me like advice and how to navigate everything.
So, you know, from... even from ITV Fresh Cuts, to you or Laura or Sat.
Even the DOP or the sound recordist.
Everyone's taught me so much because it was my first time creating, like, something for TV.
So it was like I was a sponge, literally,
just trying to get more information because I wanted to take it.
So, you know, further down into my career.
What I found particularly challenging,
I guess, being a mentor is that sometimes I don't know what to say.
I don't know how to help them,
I don't know how to direct them. And I think that's
part of them discovering their own journey and their own path.
I think it would be wrong for me to say,
Look, you should do this, you should do that.
It's all about their journey and how they make it, what they want to make it.
With Aneil, it felt, you know, even though it was a mentor mentee relationship,
it does feel more like peers.
And that's what I had also with Rifi, who’s here,
who was the mentee on my block this year, which is really nice.
I agree.
Like mentoring can be very much like fulfilling on both sides.
Because you never really stop learning, I don’t think, no matter what your job title is.
You should like be open to learning like from runner
level to kind of commissioner level, like definitely.
So what are the best sort of qualities
that you should look for when you're looking to find a mentor?
And how's the best way?
If you're part of a particular scheme, it's easier, but how is the best way
to approach someone and say, Will you be my mentor?
I feel like it's chemistry. Kind of, like,
It’s definitely important that you make it outside of a scheme as well.
Most of the time mentors also work, so they're not always available.
Kind of like, you know, the beck and call.
But I think it's about there being that fluidity and flexibility in terms of like checking in.
I think
going back to your original question as to what should the mentee expect?
I think just be open to learning and open to be kind of like challenged
because you kind of should want to grow.
They were often times that like me and my mentor at the time
had difficult conversations.
But looking back, I definitely needed to hear certain things.
And I think on the flipside, as a mentor,
you should just make sure that you are very much like
aware that not everyone understands information in the way that you do.
So that just having good communication skills, definitely.
Yeah, I agree with Louise.
Like compatibility with a mentee and mentor is so important.
As before, I don't have a mentor.
I think it's still something I'm looking for as I navigate this industry,
but right now I'm just taking it from different people.
But what a mentee should look for, I guess, is that compatibility,
that I think, is such an important thing because, you know,
you have these conversations and sometimes they even steer away from
the industry or work, it steers into like personal life
and you know, like what you go through mentally or emotionally.
So I think compatibility is for me like that
most important... when looking for a mentor.
It's always worth getting in touch with people.
I genuinely, genuinely believe that and I've gotten in touch with people
and they've been generous with their time and people have got in touch with me.
And you do at least like still try and meet, but
and then if that connection is there it carries on,
but it is worth being clear on what it is
you're needing at that point when you go out looking for someone.
I guess in terms of the qualities, I'll take resilience, determination
because you will get a lot of no’s a lot of
not even no’s, just
people that won't get back to you as well.
But you just have to keep on going and keep on persevering
because the end of the day, it's your dream, it's your goal.
It's not their goal.
They've got their own little life going on, you know.
As it said in Sister Act, if you want to be somebody,
if you want to go somewhere, you better wake up and pay attention.
But it's definitely true.
If you do want to go somewhere, if you want to be somebody,
you have to put yourself in the spotlight and put yourself out there.