MATTER A LOT.
HE AND PEOPLE LIKE HIM WOULD
HAVE REAL CONTROL OVER YOUR
KEITH ELLISON'S PERSONAL
RADICALISM FITS INTO ANOTHER
TROUBLING TREND ON THE LEFT THAT
LAST TIME WE TALKED TO
JOURNALIST CHAD McMORRAN ABOUT
HOW, ON THE LEFT, AND THE NAME
OF FIGHTING RACISM, IT IS NOW
COMMON TO ATTACK PEOPLE ON THE
BASIS OF THEIR RACE.
>> IF YOU WANT TO SEE RACISM
EVERYWHERE, IF YOU ARE
BRAINWASHED TO SEE RACISM
WILL.
THAT IS THE WORLD WILL LIVE IN.
I WAS HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH
A WOMAN NOT LONG AGO ABOUT THIS,
A YOUNG UPPER-CLASS WOMAN, AND
SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW BADLY
SHE GETS TREATED ON THE STREET,
AND I SAID, WHAT IF YOU LIVED
>> Tucker: A LAWYER AND
DEMOCRATIC COMMENTATOR.
GOOD TO SEE A.
>> GOOD TO SEE YOUR.
>> Tucker: TOTALLY OPPOSED TO,
I THINK -- I AM 48, GREW UP IN A
COUNTRY WE HAD TO BE, AND MOST
PEOPLE I KNEW WERE, TOTALLY
OPPOSED TO ATTACKING OTHER
PEOPLE ON THE BASIS OF YOUR RACE
BECAUSE YOU CAN'T CONTROL YOUR
>> YOU ARE SAYING YOU GREW UP IN
A COUNTRY WHERE --
>> Tucker: THAT'S WHERE I GREW
UP.
EVERYONE SAID THAT AT SCHOOL.
THEY DO IT AND SOMEHOW EXEMPT
THEMSELVES FROM THE NORMAL
ATTACK YOU ON THE BASIS OF YOUR
RACE, I'M NOT A RACIST, I'M
VIRTUOUS.
HOW DOES THAT WORK.
>> I DON'T KNOW HOW WE END UP IN
THIS WARPED WORLD WHERE I END UP
DOING THE HISTORY LESSON, A
HISTORY I KNOW YOU KNOW.
BUT WHEN YOU SAY YOU GREW UP IN
BASIS OF RACE, I'M WONDERING IF
YOU WERE IN THE UNITED STATES OF
AMERICA.
>> Tucker: I WAS.
DON'T BE --
>> I'M NOT -- I'M TALKING ABOUT
THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY.
AND YOU SHOULD BELIEVE THAT.
THAT'S A GOOD BELIEVE.
BUT IF YOU GREW UP IN THE
BELIEF SYSTEMS BUT CODIFIED
LAWS, WRITE, DISCRIMINATE
>> Tucker: I'M FULLY AWARE OF
THAT, BUT I'M 48, NOT 78.
THAT DIDN'T EXIST WHERE I GREW
UP.
I'M TELLING YOU, THIS IS TRUE.
BUT THE POINT IS, I BELIEVED IT.
I STILL BELIEVE IT.
WHY DON'T YOU BELIEVE IT.
>> WE ARE JUST A YEAR APART, AND
IF YOU'RE SAYING BECAUSE YOU'RE
48, NOT 78, ARE YOU SAYING THAT
SEGREGATION, WHICH REALLY DIDN'T
>> Tucker: THAT'S ALL I'M
SAYING.
>> IF PEOPLE OF COLOR HAVE BEEN
ATTACKED BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE,
NOT FOR DECADES, BUT FOR
GENERATIONS --
>> Tucker: I AGREE.
>> THAN IT IS REALLY REASONABLE
THOSE WHO HAVE DONE IT FOR
GENERATIONS.
>> Tucker: AND ATTACK THEM ON
THE BASIS OF THEIR RACE?
I'M MISSING THIS.
>> THERE SHOULD NEVER BE
PHYSICAL ATTACKS OF ANY KIND AND
THERE SHOULDN'T BE EMOTIONAL OR
VERBAL --
>> Tucker: HOW ABOUT JUST
IT'S NOT A CHOICE YOU MADE.
YOU SHOULDN'T EVER HOLD
SOMEONE'S RACE AGAINST THEM.
THAT'S NOT HIS FAULT.
THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT.
THAT IS MY RACISM IS WRONG,
RIGHT?
>> THAT IS WHY EXACTLY WHERS
>> THAT IS WHY EXACTLY WHERM
IS WRONG.
WHEN YOU SAY "THE LEFT," I
WONDER WHO THOSE PEOPLE ARE.
>> Tucker: AND HEY SITE,
SAYING, YOU SHOULD WRITE OFF
ANY GROUP OF PEOPLE ON THE
THAT SAY, WHITE PEOPLE ARE THIS
ARE WHITE PEOPLE ARE ALL THAT
JUST ON THE BASIS OF THEIR RACE.
IF YOU ARE WHITE AND YOU ARE
ALSO A BIGOT, IF YOU ARE WHITE
AND WERE ALSO A RACIST, THEN I
HAVE READ MANY THINGS THAT
>> Tucker: YOU HAVEN'T HEARD
OR SEEN ANYTHING -- TOO MANY
WHITE GUYS --
I'M SERIOUS.
>> TOO MANY WHITE GUYS IN HERE,
TUCKER.
>> Tucker: I'M SERIOUS.
>> NO.
THAT REALLY WOULDN'T MAKE SENSE
FOR THE PAST TEN YEARS, SINCE
THE NUMBERS OF WHITE MALES ARE
DECREASING IN OUR COUNTRY AND
THE NUMBER OF LATINOS,
AFRICAN-AMERICANS, ET CETERA,
ARE INCREASING.
I HAVE HEARD PEOPLE TALKING
ABOUT THAT BALANCE AND HOW THAT
CAN BE SCARY FOR THOSE WHO ARE
USED TO BEING IN POWER.
>> Tucker: DON'T PATRONIZE ME.
>> I'M NOT PATRONIZING.
>> Tucker: CAN WE AGREE THAT
IT IS ALWAYS WRONG -- ALWAYS, NO
MATTER WHO IS DOING IT TO WHO --
TO DISMISS PEOPLE, ATTACK THEM,
JUDGE THEM, ON THE BASIS OF
RACIAL CHARACTERISTICS THAT THEY
CAN'T CONTROL.
>> YES, ABSOLUTELY.
AND THOSE RACIAL CHARACTERISTICS
REALLY ARE JUST SKIN.
REMEMBER, RACE IS A CONSTRUCT.
IT IS A LEGAL AND SOCIAL
CONSTRUCT IN THE UNITED STATES.
ETHNICITY AND ORIGIN ARE
DIFFERENT --
>> Tucker: THEN WHY WOULD YOU
EVER GIVE PREFERENCE IN HIRING
OR COLLEGE ADMISSIONS TO SOMEONE
SOLELY ON THE BASIS OF SOMETHING
YOU COULDN'T CONTROL?
>> BECAUSE OF WHAT WE JUST
FINISHED TALKING ABOUT.
>> Tucker: BUT WE JUST AGREED
IT WAS WRONG.
>> I SAID IT WAS WRONG TO ATTACK
ON THE BASIS OF RACE.
I DIDN'T SAY IT WAS WRONG TO
HELP.
>> Tucker: YOU HAVE ONE JOB IN
TWO PEOPLE.
AND YOU MAKE THE DECISION THE
DECIDING FACTOR IS THE RACE.
ONE PERSON IS BEING HURT BECAUSE
>> BECAUSE HE IS CUTTING 350, IT
MAY BE YEARS OF BENEFIT.
>> Tucker: DO YOU KNOW HIM?
ALL YOU KNOW ABOUT HIM IS HIS
RACE.
AND YOU ARE SAYING THAT HE HAS
BENEFITED.
>> EXACTLY.
>> Tucker: YOU DON'T KNOW
SAYING THAT ALL PEOPLE OF A
CERTAIN COLOR HAVE SOMETHING
THAT IS NO MAKE IN COMMON, KIND
OF THE DEFINITION OF RACISM.
>> NO, THAT IS ALSO THE
DEFINITION OF DISCRIMINATION,
SOMETHING IN COMMON, THAT THEY
WERE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST.
>> Tucker: YOU DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT THE GUY.
THAT GUY IN BELGIUM YESTERDAY.
HE HAS NO CONNECTION TO IT.
BUT YOU THINK IT IS OKAY TO DENY
HIM SOMETHING BECAUSE OF HIS
COLOR.
>> I THINK THAT THE SYSTEM
ITSELF, IN ORDER TO FIX WHAT IS
THE ONE ORIGINAL SIN OF THE
COUNTRY, IT HAS TO CORRECT
ITSELF.
I DON'T CONSIDER THAT RACISM AT
WHEN YOU DO IT.
>> IF I AM IN POWER AS AN
AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMAN AND I
INSIST UPON YOU WALKING AROUND
WITH ONE HAND TIED BEHIND YOUR
BACK BUT I WANT YOU TO PLOW A
BELGIUM WHO DIDN'T DO ANYTHING,
NOT CONNECTED IN ANY WAY --
>> CAN I FINISH MY ANALOGY?
>> Tucker: THE INDIVIDUAL
SUFFERS BUT YOU DON'T CONSIDER
THAT RACISM BECAUSE, WHY?
>> IT'S NOT.
THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THIS
COUNTRY WHO HAVE BEEN
DISPROPORTIONATELY DISCRIMINATED
AGAINST FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS
ARE SUCH THAT THERE HAS TO BE A
CORRECTION FOR IT.
>> Tucker: SO PEOPLE HAVE TO
SUFFER ON THE BASIS OF THEIR
RACE?
>> IN THIS COUNTRY, THOSE PEOPLE
HAVE BEEN AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND
OTHER PEOPLE OF COLOR PEOPLE.
>> Tucker: PEOPLE WHO HAVE
DONE NOTHING WRONG HAVE TO
SUFFER BECAUSE PEOPLE THAT LOOK
LIKE THEM HAVE DONE NOTHING
WRONG.
>> I CALL IT JUSTICE.
I'M IN CHARGE NOW BECAUSE I'M
HERE, RIGHT?
>> Tucker: THAT SOUNDS LIKE
COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT TO ME.
>> YOU ARE PROBABLY AN INNOCENT
PARTY TOO, TUCKER, BUT HERE YOU
ARE WITH THIS SHOW AND THERE
PROBABLY ARE A NUMBER OF
SIMILARLY SITUATED TOWNS OF
AFRICAN-AMERICAN MALES WHO COULD
BE JUST AS GOOD A JOB OR BETTER
THAN YOU.
DO YOU THINK SO?
BECAUSE IF THAT'S THE ONLY
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND
ANOTHER TALENTED --
>> Tucker: I DON'T THINK THAT
YOU SHOULD PUNISH PEOPLE FOR
THINGS THEY DIDN'T DO --
>> I AGREE.
>> Tucker: AND THINGS THEY
AREN'T RESPONSIBLE.
>> IT'S NOT PUNISHMENT, NO, IT'S
NOT.
IT'S ADVANCEMENT.