.
. >>> DONALD TRUMP DID A PHOTO OP
AT THE BOREDER TODAY.
THIS IS A TRIP HE TOLD REPORTERS
HE DIDN’T THINK WAS WORTH MAKING
AS THE SHUTDOWN GETS LONGER.
IT IS ON PACE TO BREAK THE
RECORD FOR THE LONGEST SHUTDOWN
BY THIS WEEKEND AND ALL THIS CAN
TURN THE FOCUS AWAY FROM THE
WALL AND BACK INSIDE THE U.S.
WHERE FURLOUGHED WORKERS AND
PROTESTERS ARE HITTING THE
STREETS AND GETTING ATTENTION
FOR IT.
FOR IT. MEANWHILE, U.S. RESIDENTS, MANY
SAYING THEY OPPOSE THE WALL IN
THEIR BACKYARD.
THEIR BACKYARD. ALL THAT HAS SOME REPUBLICANS IN
BOTH CHAMBERS STARTING TO WALK
AWAY FROM TRUMP.
THAT’S A PROBLEM FOR THE SELF
PROCLAIMED DEAL MAKER WHO LIKES
TO BE THE ONE THREATENING TO
WALK AWAY.
WALK AWAY. TWO FORMER INSIDERS OF TRUMP.
>> Reporter: WITH ME TO EXPLORE
WHY THE BLUSTER ISN’T WORKING
THIS TIME.
THIS TIME. TRUMP USED TO CLAIM HIS STRATEGY
WAS TO TAKE THINGS TO THE EDGE
BUT THEN MAKE A DEAL.
ONCE SAYING YOU TAKE PEOPLE TO
THE BRINK OF BREAKING THEM
WITHOUT HAVING THEM BREAK TO GET
A BETTER DEAL AND TRUM COP
ALWAYS WALK OUT IF HE DIDN’T GET
A BETTER DEAL.
HE COULD WALK TO BANKRUPTCY.
BUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
CANNOT DECLARE BANKRUPTCY.
THEY CANNOT STAY CLOSED FOREVER.
TRUMP INSISTED MEXICO WOULD PAY
FOR THE WHOLE WALL.
HE DIDN’T PUSH THEM TO THE BRINK
OF BREAKING OR GET THEM TO COVER
SAY HALF THE WALL’S COST OR A
QUARTER.
QUARTER. HE GOT NOTHING.
AND HE GOT NOTHING FROM THE U.S.
CONGRESS FOR THE WALL.
AND WHEN CALLED ON ALL THAT,
TRUMP SAYS NOW THE BUCK DOESN’T
STOP WITH THE PRESIDENT ANYMORE.
WATCH THIS SAD DECLINE.
>> MEXICO’S PAYING FOR THE WALL.
OKAY?
OKAY? IT’S AN ISSUE OF LEAST
IMPORTANTLY DOLLARS.
IMPORTANTLY DOLLARS. WE HAVE TO FINALLY DO IT.
THE WALL WILL PAY FOR ITSELF ON
A MONTHLY BASIS.
>> DOES THE BUCK STOP WITH YOU
OVER THIS SHUTDOWN?
>> THE BUCK STOPS WITH
EVERYBODY.
EVERYBODY. >> I WANT TO BRING SOME SPECIAL
GUEST BARBARA REZ, A FORMER
TRUMP ORGANIZATION EXECUTIVE AND
AUTHOR OF "ALL ALONE ON THE 68th
FLOOR" AND TONY SCHWARTZ,
CO-AUTHOR OF "THE ART OF THE
DEAL."
DEAL." WONDERFUL TO HAVE BOTH OF YOU
HERE SEATED TOGETHER.
BARBARA, IT IS EASY TO NORMALIZE
WHAT SHOULD NOT BE NORMAL.
SO FOR YOUR VIEW, THE MAN YOU
KNOW, I TO REPLAY THAT LAST
MOMENT, THE PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES ON WHERE THE BUCK
STOPS.
STOPS. TAKE A LOOK.
>> DOES THE BUCK STOP WITH YOU
OVER THIS SHUTDOWN?
>> THE BUCK STOPS WITH
EVERYBODY.
EVERYBODY. >> WHAT KIND OF DEAL MAKING ARE
WE SEEING HERE?
>> I NEVER THOUGHT HE WAS A
GREAT DEAL MAKER, TO BE HONEST
WITH YOU.
WITH YOU. AND IN TERMS OF TAKING THE
RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE BUCK,
JUST WOULD NEVER DO IT.
IT’S NOT IN HIS DNA.
HE NEVER RESPONSIBLE.
IT IS ALWAYS SOMEONE ELSE’S
FAULT.
FAULT. >> YEAH.
>> YEAH. I FOUND MYSELF GOING BACK TO THE
ART OF THE DEAL AND LOOKING OVER
THOSE DEALS THAT I UNFORTUNATELY
DESCRIBED 30 YEARS AGO AND
REALIZING THAT MOST OF THOSE
DEALS IN THAT BOOK WERE FAILURES
AND THE NUMBER OF DEALS HE’S
MADE OVER THE YEARS SINCE THEN
HAVE OVERWHELMINGLY BEEN
FAILURES.
FAILURES. st IT’S A ACCIDENT OF HISTORY
THAT HE IS PRESIDENT.
BUT AS A DEAL MAKER, HE IS
REALLY ONE OF THE WORST I’VE
EVER COME ACROSS.
YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT
DEAL MAKING, WHAT IS IT ACTUALLY
REQUIRE?
REQUIRE? IT REQUIRES UNDERSTANDING THE
OTHER SIDE.
OTHER SIDE. IT REQUIRES EMPATHY.
IT REQUIRES HUMILITY.
IT REQUIRES COURAGE.
THESE ARE QUALITIES DONALD TRUMP
DOES NOT HAVE IN SPADES.
>> AND TO YOUR POINT, IF THE
DEAL IS ABOUT AGREEING TO DO
SOMETHING REAL, THERE MAY BE
NEGOTIATION AND SOME
EXAGGERATION OF BUSINESS, THE
FUNDAMENTALS HAVE TO BE TRUE
OTHERWISE YOU END UP WITH A
FRAUD WHICH IS ILLEGAL EVEN IN
TOUGH BUSINESS DEALS.
HERE WAS DONALD TRUMP CLAIMING
THAT HE ACTUALLY IS HONEST WHEN
HE NEGOTIATES.
HE NEGOTIATES. TAKE A LOOK.
>> A LOT OF NEGOTIATIONS ABOUT
HONESTY, BE HONEST.
THE OTHER SIDE YOU’RE DEALING
WITH INTELLIGENT PEOPLE.
THEY’RE GOING TO SEE IT.
BUT HAVE AN IDEA.
MAKE SURE IT’S THE RIGHT IDEA.
AND NEVER, EVER QUIT OR GIVE UP
ON IT.
ON IT. >> AND YET HE HAS BEEN LYING
ABOUT THE FUNDING FOR THIS WALL
FROM THE START.
ISN’T THAT THE FUNDAMENTAL CON?
IF SOMEONE ELSE COULD BE MADE TO
PAY FOR IT, SOME PEOPLE MIGHT
FEEL DIFFERENTLY ABOUT THE
PROPOSAL.
PROPOSAL. THAT WAS ALWAYS THE PROPOSAL.
OTHER PEOPLE PAY.
>> IT’S BEEN FRAUD ALL ALONG.
SO WHEN YOU SAY THAT A DEAL HAS
TO BE LEGITIMATE OR ELSE YOU’RE
LIBEL FOR FRAUD, WELL, THAT
HASN’T STOPPED HIM IN THE PAST
AND WE KNOW HE MADE A SERIES OF
FRAUDULENT DEALS AND THIS IS, OR
THE FAILURE TO MAKE THIS DEAL,
THIS IS THE MOST FRAUDULENT
ATTEMPT YET.
ATTEMPT YET. HE’S GOT A CLAIM ABOUT WHAT’S
GOING ON AT THE BORDER THAT IS
TRANSPARENTLY NOT TRUE.
>> AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOW
NANCY PELOSI IS DEALING WITH
HIM, HOW DOES THAT COMPARE TO
OTHER PEOPLE YOU SAW ON THE
OTHER SIDE OF THE TABLE?
IS SHE DOING THIS THE RIGHT WAY?
>> SHE’S DOING I THINK A GREAT
JOB.
JOB. PART OF THE REASON FOR IT IS SHE
HAS AS MUCH POWER AS HE DOES.
THIS IS A VERY FIRST TIME I’VE
EVER SEEN HIM IN A SITUATION
WHERE HE DOESN’T HAVE THE
LEVERAGE.
LEVERAGE. HE WAS A GREAT DEAL MAKER
BECAUSE HE SUED EVERYBODY.
AND RAN THEM DRY.
I MEAN HE DRAGGED THEM THROUGH
THE COURTS UNTIL HE REEFRP A
POINT WHERE THEY GO BROKE OR
MAKE THE DEAL HE WANTED.
NOW HE’S UP AGAINST A WOMAN
WHICH IS A WHOLE OTHER STORY AND
SHE’S GOT AS MUCH POWER AS HE
DOES IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES.
>> SO DO YOU THINK HE
UNDERSTANDS THAT RIGHT NOW?
>> NO.
>> NO. >> NO?
>> NO? >> NO, I DON’T.
>> SO HOW MANY PEOPLE THIS IS
ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT HAPPENS
NINT
NINT IN INTERVIEWS, A POTENTIALLY
UNANSWERABLE QUESTION.
UNANSWERABLE QUESTION. BUT HOW MANY PEOPLE IN AMERICA
ARE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY FOR HIS
LEARNING CURVE?
LEARNING CURVE? BECAUSE BOTH OF YOU HAVE A
UNIQUE INSIGHT INTO THIS.
YOU LOOK AT THE ACTUAL DATA
WE’RE SEEING, I JUST WANT TO PUT
UP ON THE SCREEN SO PEOPLE
UNDERSTAND, YOU HAVE 38 MILLION
LOW-INCOME AMERICANS THAT ARE
NOT GOING TO HAVE FOOD
ASSISTANCE.
ASSISTANCE. YOU HAVE 800,000 PEOPLE, THE
GOVERNMENT BEING A MAJOR
THE FEDERAL COURT SYSTEM
SLOWING, WHICH IS PART OF THE
SECURITY HE CLAIMS THIS IS FOR.
>> YOU KNOW, WHAT HAS HAPPENED
TO HUMANITY?
TO HUMANITY? IN A WAY IT’S ALMOST NOT ABOUT
TRUMP BECAUSE HE IS LACKING THE
SHAME GENE.
SHAME GENE. SO HE DOESN’T CARE THAT THERE
ARE 38 MILLION OR 380 MILLION
WHO ARE SUFFERING JUST AS A
WHOLE SERIES OF AUTOCRATS HE
ADMIRES DON’T CARE WHAT HAPPENS
TO PEOPLE.
TO PEOPLE. BUT SITTING BEHIND HIM ARE 50
PLUS REPUBLICAN SENATORS 180
REPUBLICAN CONGRESS PEOPLE FOR
WHOM YOU WOULD ASSUME THIS WOULD
BE MEANINGFUL.
BE MEANINGFUL. THEY’RE BEING INTIMIDATED BY
SOMEONE WHO IS JUST BARELY
HUMAN.
HUMAN. >> I WONDER, BARBARA, WHEN YOU
SEE HOWMANY MANY PEOPLE INCLUDIN
THE PRESIDENT’S ALLIES,
REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF CONGRESS,
NARRATORS WHO TRY TO BE
OBJECTIVE REFERRING TO HIM IN A
WAY YOU WOULD REFEAR A 6 OR
8-YEAR-OLD’S LEVEL OF
DISCIPLINE.
DISCIPLINE. WHEN YOU WORK WOULD HIM WAS IT
SOMETHING WHERE PEOPLE SAID HE
GOT THROUGH A WHOLE DAY WITHOUT
A TANTRUM?
A TANTRUM? >> IT’S GOTTEN WORSE.
THERE WAS A TIME WHEN HE WOULD
ACTUALLY LISTEN TO PEOPLE’S
ADVICE AND OFTEN FOLLOW IT.
MINE INCLUDED.
MINE INCLUDED. >> DUD HE KNOW YOU WERE A WOMAN?
>> HE NEVER, EVER TREATED ME
LIKE A WOMAN AND I ALWAYS SAID
HE DIDN’T DISCRIMINATE GNS ME.
>> HE DIDN’T TREAT YOU
DEMEANINGLY, YOU’RE SAYING?
>> YOU’RE SAYING HE DIDN’T TREAT
YOU THE WAY HE’S ACCUSED OF
TREATING SOME OTHER WOMEN?
>> NO.
>> NO. >> WHEN DID IT SLIDE?
THIS IDEA THAT DON’T TALK TO HIM
BEFORE HE HAS LUNCH?
HE GOT THROUGH THE MEETING WUT
TANTRUM?
TANTRUM? >> I THINK AFTER TRUMP TOWER WAS
DONE I LEFT AND WENT TO WORK FOR
LEONARD -- AND I CAME BACK AND
SAW A VERY DIFFERENT MAN.
>> I THINK IT’S BEEN
PROGRESSIVE.
PROGRESSIVE. YOU CAN MARK NOVEMBER 2016 AS
THE IT BIGGEST MOMENT OF SHIFT,
WHICH IS THE MORE POWER HE
HAS -- YOU KNOW THIS IS THE
CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF POWER
CORRUPTS AND ABSOLUTE POWER
CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY.
CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY. HE WAS CORRUPT WITH POWER.
HE’S ABSOLUTELY CORRUPT NOW AND
INSENSIBLE TO ANY KIND OF
INPRESIDENT TRUMP.
INPRESIDENT TRUMP.
>> IT’S FASCINATING LISTENING TO BOTH OF YOU.
YOU’LL PROBABLY BE WORKING ON