ROLLING STONE WAS SUED FOR DEFAMATION OVER A STORY THAT
THEY PUBLISHED BACK IN 2014
REGARDING A RAPE ON THE CAMPUS, THAT WAS ACTUALLY THE HEADLINE
OF THE STORY DETAILING THE ALLEGED GANG RAPE OF A STUDENT
BY THE NAME OF JACKIE.
IT TURNED OUT THAT ROLLING STONE MAGAZINE DID NOT CORROBORATE
SOME OF THE CLAIMS MADE BY JACKIE AND THEN THE WASHINGTON
POST IN ADDITION TO COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY PICK THE STORY APART
AND FOUND IT NOT ONLY LACKED
JOURNALISTIC INTEGRITY, IT ALSO, THE WRITER DIDN'T DO ENOUGH TO
ENSURE THAT JACKIE'S CLAIMS HAD ANY WEIGHT BEHIND THEM.
THROUGHOUT THE ARTICLE, THERE WAS AN ADMINISTRATOR BY THE
NAME OF NICOLE ERAMO MENTIONED AND IT MADE SEEM AS
THOUGH SHE WAS THE VILLAIN.
SHE WAS THE ONE WHO TRIED TO BRUSH JACKIE'S CLAIMS OF RAPE
UNDER THE RUG, BUT IT TURNS OUT THAT SHE DIDN'T REALLY DO
ANYTHING WRONG AND SHE TOOK THE PROPER PRECAUTIONS TO ENSURE
THAT SHE WENT TO THE POLICE AND REPORTED EVERYTHING TO THE
COPS AND THAT AN INVESTIGATION TOOK PLACE.
IN THIS DEFAMATION SUIT, THE JURY FOUND LIABILITY ON THE
PART OF ROLLING STONE, ITS PARENT COMPANY, WINTER MEDIA
AND THE AUTHOR OF THE ARTICLE, SABRINA RUBIN ERDELY.
LAWYERS FOR MS.
ERAMO ARGUED THAT ROLLING STONE AND THE WRITER WERE RECKLESS
IN THE REPORTING AND EDITING AND THAT MISS ERDELY DELIBERATELY
AVOIDED FOLLOWING LEADS THAT COULD HAVE DISPROVED THE STORY.
KEEP IN MIND THAT THE PERSON THAT BROUGHT THIS LAWSUIT, THE
ADMINISTRATOR, IS A PUBLIC FIGURE AND WHENEVER A PUBLIC
FIGURE IS INVOLVED IN A DEFAMATION SUIT OR BRINGS ONE
FORWARD, THE STANDARD OF EVIDENCE IS MUCH HIGHER.
THEY HAVE TO PROVE SOMETHING CALLED ACTUAL MALICE.
IT
REQUIRES A PLAINTIFF WHO IS A PUBLIC FIGURE TO PROVE THAT THE
PUBLISHER KNEW IT HAD PUBLISHED FALSEHOODS OR ACTED IN A
RECKLESS DISREGARD OF ITS TRUTH
OR FALSITY.
I AM TORN BY THE STORY.
NOT BECAUSE THERE IS A QUESTION AS TO WHETHER ROLLING STONE
DID THE RIGHT THING OR NOT.
THE STORY WAS TERRIBLE.
THEY KNOW IT.
THEY ARE THE ONES WHO SAID LET'S INVESTIGATE OURSELVES, NOT
JUST OURSELVES, LET'S GET AN OUTSIZE ENTITY, COLUMBIA
INSTITUTE JOURNALISM SCHOOL WHICH IS VERY WELL ESTEEMED
AND THEY CAME IN AND THEY DID A DEVASTATING REPORT ABOUT ALL
THE THINGS THAT THEY DID WRONG.
YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED?
THE PLAINTIFFS USE THAT REPORT AGAINST THEM IN THE LAWSUIT.
ROLLING STONE MADE THE MISTAKE OF BEING HONEST HERE
AFTERWORDS AND TRYING TO ACTUALLY FIX THEIR PROBLEMS
AND IT WAS USED AGAINST THEM.
IT WAS A TERRIBLE REPORT BY ROLLING STONE AND OTHERWISE, I
THINK GOOD TO GREAT PUBLICATION
AND THERE ARE A LOT OF PUBLICATIONS THAT DO
INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING AND ROLLING STONE DOES.
IT MIGHT
DESTROY THEM.
SHE SUED FOR 7 1/2 MILLION DOLLARS AND SHE WON.
THEY HAVE NOT DECIDED HOW MUCH IS GOING TO GET.
THAT IS THE NEXT STAGE IN THE TRIAL.
THERE IS ANOTHER GROUP THAT IS STORING, THE FRATERNITY.
THEY ARE SUING FOR $25 BILLION.
IF THEY BOTH WIN AND THEY BOTH GET THAT MONEY, MAGAZINES
DON'T MAKE THAT MUCH MONEY ANYMORE.
IT MIGHT BANKRUPT
ROLLING STONE.
THE JURY IS RIGHT.
LOOK, ACTUALLY I TRUST THE JURY DELIBERATED IN A PERFECTLY
FINE FASHION, LET ME PUT IT THAT WAY.
IF I WAS ON THE JURY THE ACTUAL MALICE STANDARD IS REALLY HARD
AND I WOULD HAVE TO REALLY LOOK AT THE THING THERE.
DID ROLLING STONE DO IT ON PURPOSE BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO
SMEAR THE DEAN.
NO WAY.
YOU WOULD HAVE A REALLY HARD TIME CONVINCING THAT.
WERE THEY SO RECKLESSLY NEGLIGENT THAT IN ESSENCE, IT
WAS ACTUAL MALICE?
THAT IS A SUPERHARD QUESTION BUT THE JURY DELIBERATED AND THEY
DECIDED THAT IT WAS.
I UNDERSTAND THAT.
NOW THAT HANGS OVER EVERYBODY'S HEAD.
GAWKER IS OUT OF BUSINESS BECAUSE OF THE WHOLE COGAN
THING.
YES THAT WAS WRONG.
ROLLING STONE WAS WRONG.
REAGAN A PUT OUT OF BUSINESS EVERY PUBLICATION THAT GETS
ONE STORY WRONG?
ESPECIALLY SOMETHING LIKE ROLLING STONE THAT HAS A LONG
DASH GAWKER AND ROLLING STONE SHOULDN'T BE COMPARED BECAUSE
ROLLING STONE HAS LONGER.
THE UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA WHERE HAPPENED IS WHERE I WENT.
I FOLLOWED THE CASE PRETTY CLOSELY AND EVERYBODY
INCLUDING THE JURY BECAUSE HE DELIBERATED FOR QUITE A WHILE,
FOR DAYS, EVERYONE WAS STUCK ON THE MALICE THING.
I'M SURE YOU HAVE MORE TO SAY ON THAT, BUT THE WHOLE IDEA THAT
YOU HAVE TO PROVE SOME KIND OF MALICE AGAINST HER IS HARD
BECAUSE IT WAS THERE IRRESPONSIBILITY THAT CAUSE
THE MALICE.
CAN YOU INTERPRET NEGLIGENCE INTO MALICE?
I DON'T KNOW.
THERE'S A CRIMINALLY NUDGING NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE AND THEN
HOMICIDE.
THAT WAS ARTIST PART FOR ME BUT I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT, I IMAGINE
IF THE FRATERNITY GETS SOME KIND OF RESOLUTION FOR THIS, IT'S
HARD TO SEE THE MALICE.
I WASN'T TOTALLY COMFORTABLE WITH THE VERDICT, BUT LIKE YOU
SAID, EVERYBODY IN THAT ROOM SAW IT MUCH CLOSER THAN I DID AND
I GUESS IT THEY HAD TO PROVE MALICE IN A DIRECT WAY, THEY
DID IT.
I AGREE WITH THE JURY'S RULING.
BASED ON WHAT WE KNOW AND WE DON'T HAVE ALL OF THE EVIDENCE
THAT THEY SAW BUT WE DO KNOW WHAT THE WASHINGTON POST
PROVIDED IN TERMS OF EVIDENCE OF NEGLIGENCE AND REPORTING AND
YEAH, IT WAS NEGLIGENT AND IT DESTROYED THE REPUTATION OF
SOMEONE WHO DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG.
IN FACT, IT DESTROYED THE REPUTATIONS OF SEVERAL PEOPLE
WHO WERE PART OF THIS FRATERNITY.
THEY SUFFER CONSEQUENCES AS A RESULT OF THAT.
THE CONSEQUENCES FOR ROLLING STONE, I DON'T AGREE WITH.
WHILE THAT REPORTER SHOULD NOT BE EMPLOYED BY THEM ANYMORE
AND WHILE THAT ARTICLE SHOULD BE RETRACTED, WHICH IT HAS BEEN,
THERE ARE SO MANY INCREDIBLE WRITERS THAT WORK AT ROLLING
STONE, THAT PUBLISHED WORK THERE THAT WE DESPERATELY NEED.
MATTEI B IS ONE OF THEM.
TO THINK OF THIS PUBLICATION COMPLETELY GOING UNDER BECAUSE
OF THE TERRIBLE ACTIONS OF ONE REPORTER.
AND EDITOR.
TO BE FAIR, IT WASN'T JUST ONE PERSON.
THERE WERE A FEW PEOPLE BEHIND IT, BECAUSE OF THEIR ACTIONS
TO SEE ALL OF THESE OTHER REPORTERS AND PEOPLE WHO OF
DONE GREAT WORK SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES BOTHERS ME.
LET'S TALK ABOUT A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE WASHINGTON POST,
BECAUSE WE REPORTED ON THIS EARLIER WHEN THE STORY HAD
BROKE BUT I FORGOT ABOUT JUST HOW EGREGIOUS THIS STORY WAS.
AN INVESTIGATION BY THE WASHINGTON POST SHOWED THAT
ASPECTS OF JACKIE'S ACCOUNTS WERE NOT TRUE INCLUDING THAT
NO ONE IN THE FRATERNITY MATCH THE NAME OR DESCRIPTION SHE GAVE
FOR THE PERSON WHO ALLEGEDLY WAS THE RINGLEADER OF HER ASSAULT.
A PERSON SHE DESCRIBED HER FRIENDS AT THE TIME EZRA SELYE
WAS A COMPLETE FICTION.
IN FACT, A PHOTO THAT SHE SHARED OF HER ALLEGED ATTACKER WAS
ACTUALLY SOMEONE SHE KNEW FROM HIGH SCHOOL AND WHO HAD
ATTENDED A DIFFERENT SCHOOL OUT OF STATE.
THAT IS WHY IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT, I FEEL LIKE IT IS
JOURNALISM 101 TO GET BOTH SIDES OF THE STORY.
INTERVIEW AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE AND IF YOU ARE
UNCOMFORTABLE INTERVIEWING THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF
RAPING HER, WHICH I DO THINK YOU SHOULD BE, I THINK YOU SHOULD
GET A STATEMENT FROM THEM AS WELL, AT THE VERY LEAST YOU
SHOULD FIND OTHER PEOPLE TO CORROBORATE THESE CLAIMS WHETHER
IT IS HER FRIENDS OR OTHER PEOPLE THAT SHE MAY HAVE TALKED
TO DOCTOR FRIENDS LATER CAME FORWARD AND SAID NO, SHE TOLD US
SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAT THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
AGAIN JOURNALISM 101.
YOU HAVE TO TALK TO MORE THAN ONE PERSON TO MAKE SURE YOU
HAVE A WELL-BALANCED STORY.
IT GETS A LITTLE WORSE THAN THAT.
THAT'S WHY YOU CAN SEE THE JURY COULD THINK THAT THIS WAS A
RECKLESS DISREGARD FOR TRUTH.
WHEN THEY GO TO TALK TO A ROMOLO, SHE IS THE DEAN THAT
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE DIE IN THE BEGINNING BEFORE WE FOUND
THE STORY WAS FALSE, BUT DID HER REPUTATION BECAUSE IN THE
ARTICLE THEY IMPLY THAT SHE WAS TRYING TO COVER IT UP AND BRUSH
UNDER THE RUG DIE IN REALITY, SHE HAD ACTUALLY BEEN VERY
HELPFUL TO JACKIE, THE ONE WHO MADE UP THIS WHOLE STORY AND SHE
HAD TRIED TO FIND HER HELP IN EVERY WAY, SHE TRIED TO HELP HER
TO GET PRESS CHARGES, IT WAS A HATCHET JOB ON HER.
I UNDERSTAND WHY SHE BROUGHT THE LAWSUIT.
AT THIS POINT, BY THE WAY, NO ONE THINKS SHE DID THE WRONG
THING.
EVERYONE THINKS SHE IS THE HERO OF THE STORY.
SHE IS FINE NOW.
SHE IS NO LONGER UVA.
I WOULD BE SHOCKED IF SHE HAD ANY TROUBLE FINDING A JOB
ANYWHERE NOW BECAUSE OF THE REDEMPTION THAT SHE HAS GOTTEN.
SHE WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG.
THAT ALSO LEADS TO ONE OF THE BETTER DEFENSES THAT ROLLING
STONE HAD.
THEY SAID JACKIE WAS A PHENOMENAL LIAR.
PART OF THE REASON WE BELIEVED HER AND YES, WE WERE WRONG AND
WE HAVE ADMITTED IT SEVEN TIMES.
IS HOW GOOD SHE LAID OUT THAT CASE.
IN FACT, THE PRISONER BELIEVED ARE THE MOST BEFORE US WAS A
ROMOLO.
SHE BELIEVED JACKIE COMPLETELYÖ SHE WAS TRYING TO GET HER TO
FILE CHARGES.
I THINK SHE MIGHT'VE EVEN CRIED WITH HER.
TRIED TO MAKE SURE SHE WAS EMOTIONALLY OKAY AND PHYSICALLY
OKAY.
SHE WAS A PHENOMENAL LIAR, BUT THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE TO GO AND
ASK THE ACCUSED BECAUSE YOU CAN'T JUST THROW THAT OUT
THERE WITHOUT GETTING THEIR SIDE OF THE STORY AND HAVING THEM
GO WAIT A MINUTE, I HAVE NEVER MET HER IN MY LIFE.
WITH THE GUYS EVERY TIME WE DO THE STORIES, AND ALLEGATION IS
IMMUNE TO HAPPEN DIED IS JUST AN
ALLEGATION'S, IN THE CASE LIKE COSBY WHERE THERE ARE 50
ALLEGATIONS, MAYBE THEY DO HAVE VALIDITY, BUT EVEN WITHIN THAT
STORY WE TOLD YOU ALMOST EVERY
TIME, DOESN'T MEAN EVERYONE OF THEM IS TRUE AND I SAY THAT
ABOUT THE TRUMP ALLEGATIONS.
THERE ARE A LOT OF THEM DIE DOESN'T MEAN EVERYONE OF THEM
ARE TRUE.
THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE LOOKING FOR PUBLICITY.
PEOPLE IN DEFENDING TRUMP SAY THAT YOU DOUBT THE PEOPLE I
TALKED TO IN NORTH CAROLINA AND ORLANDO ABOUT TRUMP SAY WHAT
ABOUT BILL COSBY AND THEY SAY HE IS NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT
AND THEY DID IT WHEN HE WAS TRYING NOT TO BE ANYTHING.
THIS GUY IS A BILLIONAIRE AND IT IS A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO DO IT.
THEY THINK PEOPLE WILL FIND ANY REASON NOT TO BELIEVE, BUT
GOING IN AND JUST BELIEVING IS JUST AS BAD.
JACKIE HERSELF AND THEN THE EDITORS INSIDE IN CHARGE OF THIS
AT ROLLING STONE HAD DONE A
GREAT DISSERVICE TO VICTIMS OF SEXUAL ASSAULT ON CAMPUS.
THAT ALLOWS EVERYONE TO GO ALL YEAH THEY ARE ALL MADE UP.
THE DAMAGE TO JACKIE AND OTHERS IN THE STORY DID IS TREMENDOUS
WHEN IT COMES TO THE ISSUE THAT THEY WERE SUPPOSEDLY BREATHING
TO LIGHT.