(laughing)
- [Jamieleigh] We can't even,
- [Dave] We-we can't do it, because...
- [Jamieleigh] I don't even know what you guys are
gonna react like to this
video, but you will not believe
- [Dave] What kind of bird.
- [Jamieleigh] This chick brought to our masterclass.
(bright upbeat music)
- [Dave] Is this one a male or female?
- [Heather] Um... Well, we won't know yet.
- [Dave] Okay.
- [Heather] We don't know yet.
It'll be a, I've read that at seven months of age,
you can start seeing the differences,
the behavioral differences.
- [Dave] Okay.
- Cause this species is not dimorphic.
- [Dave] Okay.
- But behaviorally, you'll know.
- [Dave] Right.
- [Heather] Okay. So (laughs)
- [Jamieleigh] What are you bringing to our...
(trails off) Training class?
- [Heather] My name's Heather and I
operate an exotic animal petting zoo.
So I have everything from, you know, reptiles,
snakes and turtles and bugs, spiders, scorpions,
you know, chinchillas, hedgehogs,
parrots... I have a variety of these exotic animals.
And I come and do birthday parties.
So, um, we have the large blue and gold macaw-
She does a lot of our big photo booth events.
We have our little budgie,
he'll do certain classroom events.
And I really wanted a bird that I could take to a birthday
party. And- cause all my birds are flighted.
So I needed a bird that could be outdoors without
me having seen the venue. If I come to
your house for your kids party,
I don't know what it looks like.
So I needed a bird that could go
in any area outdoors and help educate kiddos
without a major fly off risk or without
necessarily having to do the same level of free flight
training I do like with the blue and gold. So-
- [Jamieleigh] Do you want me to get him out
or just talk about him?
- [Dave] You can take him out.
- [Heather] Okay.
- [Jamieleigh] So we are curious if
you guys can pause the video right now
and leave a comment with what kind
of bird you think this could possibly be about.
- [Dave] And don' t ruin it for anybody else.
If you already watched the next part or you
skipped ahead or you read the comments,
don't ruin it for everybody else because
I really want to know what your guess is.
- [Jamieleigh] Legitimately guess!
Especially with what Heather is saying,
that she was looking for out of a bird and
all the criteria that this bird had to meet.
If you guys have any sort of guess,
I cannot wait to read the comments
before you actually know the answer,
Please put it in a comment of what
type of bird do you think this could
possibly be? Because I didn't see it coming.
- [Dave] It's crazy.
- [Heather] This is Oreo and he's an Indian
fantail pigeon. He's just a baby.
We got him actually from the nest
when he was still naked and spiky
and we hand fed him and raised him.
And the reason I went specifically with
an Indian fantailed pigeon is
because they get so many tail feathers that it's
difficult for them have good flight.
So his flight just naturally is never going
to be very good. So I can keep him flighted.
I'm trying to work on flight training with him.
And I think we're having really good success,
but, but I just, yeah,
so everything's going to be about the pigeon.
And I figured you're a magician.
Pigeons, doves, one big family.
You're going to have some for me! (laughs)
- [Dave] And you were worried about the cockatoo.
- [Heather] This is a first. Someone brought
a pigeon to class.
- [Heather] So yeah.
So, so he's your student (laughs) for today.
- [Dave] And what is it? I know we,
you were dodging answering questions earlier cause you want
to ask them in the class. So. (laughs)
- [Heather] Okay. So I been,
- [Jamieleigh] what are we supposed to do with this pigeon?
(all laughing)
- [Heather] So I've been professionally working
with parrots for 17 years and I've, you know,
not, I mean, okay. I started following
you guys quite a few years ago,
so I've known how to work with them.
And then I've learned a bunch
of great things from you guys.
I've learned how to do permission-based training
and that's been a life changer with the parrots.
I've got all of my birds on
your nutritional feeding system.
So they have that in the morning.
They have the green pellets at night,
even the budgie eats the pellets plain,
like they do great. And I understand
body language and hormones a lot because of
you guys too. And so I help
other people with their birds.
I have great success with my own birds.
But then, I get this pigeon and
as I'm using him, I'm realizing,
I don't know that his body language is the same.
I know how to not hormonally trigger my blue and gold-
are hormones a thing with pigeons?
I don't know. Um,
I know that with him because again, being a baby,
I've been teaching him how to step up and I understand and,
and we're getting some of that.
I know they're smart. I have these ideas
on different things I can train them to
do for shows. But I just, I basically,
I don't quite understand his body language.
Like occasionally I'll have him in,
he'll go and he'll look like he's turning to bite,
but I don't know if that's what he's doing.
I know that when I hand fed him, he liked,
(laughter)
he liked to eat out of fingers.
So I just basically knowing that you've worked
with doves, I figure you've
got to have some sort of basic handling skills
with them. Um, I know his, he like,
he shakes a bit- Come here, buddy.
(pigeon coos)
He shakes a bit and I'm trying,
I think from Google that's standard-
(phone rings)
can be nerves, excitement.
And so right now I just kind of handle it through like
avoidance. I don't coddle him through it.
I've tried to do the whole hold his feet thing,
but it's broken some foot feathers.
(phone rings)
- [Woman] I'm sorry guys. I don't know
how to silence my-
So, but I mean, so I don't know.
Basically if there's like other ways I can handle him,
hold him, do stuff with him,
(phone rings, pigeon coos, all laugh)
any ideas you have on how Oreo
can be a better show pigeon and things
that I can do to help. Well, like
I don't want to create a biter.
I think the number one thing on my
mind is that- that, we did some events
recently and I would hold them out.
And I have him just sit on a flat hand because
of his muffs and I have the kids pet him.
(all laughing)
That's what they're called! Well, okay.
Now here's the other thing I know you guys really love.
- [Woman] I'm so sorry- now my son says
he needs me right now.
- [Heather] That's okay.
- [Woman] And I've never- (trails off)
- [Heather] It might be, It might be locked.
Feel free to unlock it. There you go.
(door opens and shuts)
And then another, another thing is, you know,
he does have his diaper and um, you know,
I get that on him no problem.
- [Dave] And it's even leopard print.
- [Heather] Yes. Yes.
Well, cause you know, it's safari themed shows.
So I pull up in a zebra striped Jeep,
you know, but yeah. Like I just,
I wanna know like when he turns like,
like watch. Pet him. (pigeon coos)
So like that is that biting, turning aggression?
Is that biting him trying to figure out
what's going on? How do I in, how do I work
with him so that I don't reinforce biting or
create a biter? And cause you know,
in parrot world, like one of my first
things would be like, oh, like if you
hormonally stimulate your bird,
you create that monogamous mate thing.
Of course they bite. I get that.
Or you know, don't pet your bird and
stroke them that way. I just don't know
if any of that translates and I guess
maybe you don't. I don't know.
- [Dave] Yeah. So my, my pigeon experience
is very, very, very limited. Um,
My dove experience goes a solid
30 years of being around them.
And 20 of those years performing with
them extensively, and the only time I ever
had a dove bite me was when they were
on eggs. So from that standpoint, there's,
- [Heather] Right.
doesn't appear to be a lot of crossover from
a show environment standpoint though,
The first thing comes to mind that
I think could be really cool, And I would flight train,
(wings flapping)
- [Heather] Oreo, Oreo, Oreo!
- I am sorry, and he's gonna go on your head.
- [Woman] Okay. I think so.
- [Heather] So originally we trained him
how to fly to the kids' heads and then
we've been transitioning it to the hand and hat.
So... there we go. (laughs)
- [Dave] What I did with the doves is
I got a metal shot glass and filled it with seed
and I would hold it my hand with my finger out.
- [Heather] Okay.
And so I'd start with like short flights,
just, you know, here, to the hand
then to eat and I pick them up,
do a little, and then you eventually
have him go out a little bit and come back.
And so what you could do is potentially to-
So, so where I'm going is like, instead of
having him bite when somebody is petting,
- [Heather] Oh...
cause what, what happened is being when he was
being pet and he bit, you took him away
from that. Right?
- [Heather] Right.
So that could in theory reinforce it.
Um, but if he associates being pet with
always getting food at the same time,
that might be able to pair that petting is
equals food-
- [Heather] Right.
- [Dave] and simple way of putting it.
- [Heather] See, We've tried- See, like
right now I'm like I'm putting your seed
right here. (pigeon coos)
Is that what you're after?
- [Dave] Oh, his muffs.
- [Heather] So do you see how like now he's
going for it, but it's just so that that's basically,
I don't want to create a biter cause I need to
use it for kids, but this is all new to me.
I don't know what that means. I don't know.
Cause like you can see, I mean
I'm even like showing food and yeah. So.
- [Dave] I don't know much about the species,
but you know, behaviorally speaking.
- [Heather] But, see? He throws it, he didn't
even eat it.
- [Jamieleigh] What are you feeding him?
What are you, where do you get that?
- [Heather] Okay. This is a mix of.
- [Dave] It almost looks like the handmade budgie one.
- [Heather] It's most, it's a lot of that.
- [Dave] Okay.
- [Heather] Yeah. So it's got a lot of
the stuff from the handmade budgie seed.
- [Jamieleigh] Mmm hmm.
- [Heather] I have found if I get him
to take any sort of treat it's
safflower and that comes in like the standard
dove and quail mix, but see? He always-
So I don't, I don't know-
- [Jamieleigh] He seems aggressive to me.
- [Heather] Yeah. And it's- (pigeon coos)
I mean, granted, you know, he's just
turned three months old. (wings flapping)
Come here! So that's why I'm like,
okay. Like I want to figure it out now,
but anyways, it's a lot of grains and seeds
and I have given him the chop.
He doesn't seem to eat it. I was giving it to
him outside and then we got some ants,
so I get his Xavier outside.
So now I'm trying to give it to him
while he's in the house and this diaper
doesn't fit the best. So I have a new one
coming, it's a different design.
And once that one, it's the same design
as my chicken diaper. So (all chuckle) yes,
I have chickens that play piano too.
And yeah. So I just. (wings flapping)
- [Jamieleigh] I'm looking up what I feed the
doves so that I can give it to you.
- [Heather] Yeah, sure.
(unintelligible)
- [Jamieleigh] So did you feed waste free exclusively?
- [Heather] Come here, Oreo!
- [Jamieleigh] At least he lands on people.
- [Dave] Yeah.
- [Jamieleigh] It does make me wonder about like
male versus female. Cause at least with
doves, we found like, I would tell Dave
I'm like, try to get all females with like one male.
- [Dave] I was- My first thought was a male with this one.
- [Jamieleigh] Mine too.
- [Heather] Okay.
- [Jamieleigh] Because the females were just
so much easier, whereas the males were
aggressive to the females. They're aggressive
to each other. They were just a nightmare.
And I'd always be like, dude, we have way too many males
- [Heather] Right.
- [Jamieleigh] in this block. Go get more.
- [Heather] So you did notice a difference.
- [Jamieleigh] Oh totally. Totally.
- [Dave] Yeah if I was performing full time
I would have only females.
- [Heather] Okay. So, interesting.
Okay. So now another question.
When I got him from the breeder, he was the only baby.
So I was just going to be stuck with whatever,
but I was under the, assumpt-
under the impression that if I wanted a pigeon
that I could use at parties and kids could handle,
I would need to raise it and raise it with people.
Is that the case? Cause I've heard you
guys say sometimes, oh, you swap them
with breeders and they go back.
So does that mean you're able to just,
oh, it's a male. He's not working.
Let's try a female and you're able to swap it. Or?
- [Dave] With doves, I'll show up- like I flew to,
to Kyrgyzstan and met the doves that morning
and out of the show that night. Different with a dove act.
- [Jamieleigh] I will say though,
like the dynamic between the doves is always different based
on how many males, or how many females you have,
because you have to keep in mind,
we weren't working with just one.
- [Heather] Yes, you had a group.
- [Jamieleigh] We were working with a group. Right.
- [Dave] I'd take eight and I'd use six. So
I would take the best out of the (wings flapping)
- [Heather] Looking them up for this.
- [Woman] Kind of molested them.
- [Dave] So ours were streptococcus or something strepto-
- [Heather] Okay. Okay.
- [Jamieleigh] But I will say like when we went to the
Mediterranean and we worked with this other guy's
flock because we didn't travel
that international with ours, he
(whispers) had the best flock.
- [Dave] So good. We almost paid a lot
of money to import them.
- [Jamieleigh] We were just like, can we keep these?
Because they were-
- [Dave] Smart.
- [Jamieleigh] amazing.
And I don't know if we had a mix of male and female,
they got along really, really well.
So it was probably.
- [Dave] I think it was mostly females-
Ditch ya and red wristband.
- [Jamieleigh] Yeah. But they were, they were
my favorites. So I think our dynamic was different
because we always had a flock.
We've never just had a single dove
that we've messed with, but he is, he seems,
he seems like a male to me just based off
the posturing and stuff. But that said, with very
little experience with actual pigeons.
- [Heather] Right. Come here-
- [Jamieleigh] So in conclusion, (laughs)
we don't know jack about this.
- [Dave] You cut my head off. There you go.
- [Jamieleigh] No, your head's there, you got a hat.
(both laughing)
How would you conclude this video?
- [Dave] Ah, you know, this is not uh,
the most common scenario for a masterclass.
We like masterclasses because we're exposed
to all sorts of birds that we maybe
wouldn't normally work with, like this one.
- [Jamieleigh] Parrots.
- [Dave] But yeah, they have been
consistently parrots until today.
- [Jamieleigh] This is a first, uh, I feel like
in conclusion, we just, we just don't do pigeons.
- [Dave] No.
- [Jamieleigh] No.
(bright music)