But if you think about it from
our next logical and biological
standpoint, it's actually
essential that that thrill
decreases so we can focus on
other things than just wanting
to be in bed with each other.
there for right now, you're
probably comparing it to what
you felt with your partner. And
while that's what you want to
have, again, I get it. It's like
chasing a fantasy at this point.
As always on relationship you
are almost as always, we are
joined by our resident
sexologist Dr. Joe beam. Thank
you for being here today.
Thank you for acknowledging much
sexologist. Most people don't
know that I think, have to study
and teach about sex, as well as
about relationships.
I'm also trying to make our
producer a little uncomfortable,
because I told him we would
bring up sex at least once
during this recording earlier in
the conversation. So it's
something I like to make sure
people know that we don't just
talk about relationships, we
talked about a lot of the issues
or the relationships and one of
your one of the best areas that
you've studied, you've studied
marriage crisis, obviously for
over 20 years. But the random
thing that comes up in our
workshop, and there are
questions you spend time
answering questions about is
your actually your degree in
sexology.
Yeah, and next year,
interestingly, 99 2024 will be
30 years since I've started
working with marriages, actually
first started working marriages
in 1994. So coming up on 30.
That's phenomenal. That's
phenomenal. that's older than
Jason so
no people looking at you saying
how could you possibly have done
that? You look? So
we have learned not to ask me
what age you are, I accidentally
say the wrong thing, or say the
sarcastic answer. So
fair enough. What questions do
we have for today? My pleasure?
Absolutely.
So the first question we're
going through today is as a new
empty nester, that has been
having relationship issues. Even
when the kids were here. Is it
still possible to save the
marriage, when she acts like she
wants out? She is distant, and
disinterested. I suggested
counseling. And she has said she
would leave if I said it again.
Okay. There's an interesting
phenomenon that occurs with
women, not every woman, of
course, you understand it, when
we talk we're talking to
numerically like this is what
often happens, but it may not
happen to a specific person.
There are a number of women, for
example, when they finally go
through menopause, begin to have
some very serious questions
about their own validity, their
value their self worth, because
part of what they viewed their
self worth as being was the
ability to be a mother, now
beyond just when the menopause
takes place, which means that
she can't have any more babies,
a similar thing can take place
when finally the last baby
leaves the nest. And so now,
it's like, I'm still a mother,
but not like I was before
because my kids are in college,
or they have those jobs. They
are where they are, they're
married to that person, those
kinds of things. And so
sometimes with some women, and
I'm not saying it's necessarily
the case with your, your wife,
I'm saying that it could be that
she's questioning who she is and
what she's supposed to be in,
etc, which naturally would lead
her to withdraw. Because people
don't that kind of situation,
basically, you're trying to
figure out, do I really have
value? Now may may not be
processing it just exactly what
those words, generally that's
what they're doing. And so is it
possible to save the marriage in
a situation like this?
Absolutely. Part of it is going
to be patients. Now, when a
person is going through that
kind of confusion, it is not
unusual, and often to say, leave
me alone, don't push me and
asking her to go to counseling
will come across as being a
push. So be there be
understanding, listen to her as
much as you possibly can affirm
her without sounding like that
you're doing something that's
not real. And that word, your
affirmations can't come across
as you're just trying to make
her feel better, it has to be
things that you actually
believe, and with a little bit
of time begins to soften a
little bit. One thing that we
would recommend is that
gradually begin to find
something out there that could
focus the both of you on
together. Now, I can't tell you
what that would be. Because I
don't know what your gifts or
your talents are. But it has to
be both of you, not just one.
But suppose for example, I'll
just give a quick example. And
we'll move on. If he were to say
something like, you know, I
think young mothers really need
to know a lot more about how to
take care of their children.
Your response might be, you
don't want to be interesting. I
wonder if we could set up a
class somewhere where I could be
your co teacher or your support
group at the very least. And and
we could think that through and
plan it out in advance and you
could start doing that. I'm
going to words focus her on
something which you can find
herself worth again, but it
can't be something that you just
throw at her. It's got to be
something that comes out of her
heart. So be patient. You Don't
panic, and wait for those
opportunities to when she starts
indicating what might be
important to her and gently feed
into that.
That really hits home more of
the last step of reconciliation
to have that aspirational phase
as we would call it, right? And
thinking through, not only in
your crisis moment, should you
work on making yourself better,
but learning ways to pull your
spouse back in without having
that push effect. So very good.
That's how I'm listening. And
I'm understanding and how I
respond to these questions is,
I'm just going to say what I
think. Okay, very good. So and
hopefully make some sort of
sense of that. Next question. Is
it possible for me to love my
husband again, after I cheated
on him, he let me come back to
the marriage, but I feel like I
made the choice because it was
the right thing to do. I've been
back for eight months, but I
don't feel in love with him
anymore at all.
So the short answer is, yes, it
is definitely possible that you
could be in love with him again.
But you need to be careful what
you measure that ceiling
against. You see, when we start
looking at love from a
scientific viewpoint and the
social sciences, I shouldn't say
Dr. Sternberg model is what we
use all the time. Robert
Sternberg is brilliant he
researches love, which has to do
with intimacy. That's openness,
transparency and vulnerability,
which has to do with commitment
that I'm going to do what it
takes to keep the relationship
alive. And then also has
passion. No passion has a sexual
component. But passion is deeper
than that. Passion is a craving
for oneness. I want to share
life with you. If I see a
beautiful sunset, I wish you
were there to see it with me
know, probably what you're
lacking right now, is that
feeling of passion? And if you
were involved with somebody
else, which you said you were in
those relationships, typically
the passion goes intensely. Hmm.
People have sometimes let me
ride me out people who have had
an affair and say, if I go back
to my spouse, will I ever have
the same level in the future of
excitement and sexual
exhilaration that I had when my
partner that I just had the
affair with and my response
universally is? No. Why would I
want to go back because if you
stayed with the partner, he
would go away with him or her to
those kinds of things are short
lived in sexology. We call it
sexual habituation. What that
means is after a couple of
years, it's not like exactly to
the timeline, we have 10 minutes
left. But after a couple of
years, he you that thrill
diminishes dramatically. You've
seen all there is to see you've
done all there is to do you've
heard all ears to hear you've
touched dollars to touch and
been touched everywhere there to
be touched. And after a while it
begins to reduce in frequency.
And in repertoire, you start
doing fewer things together, and
it doesn't have that same level
of intensity it did to begin
with. Now if you believe in God,
you believe that God made it
that way. If you just believe in
nature, then believe it nature
made it that way. But if you
think about it from an
anthropological and biological
standpoint, it's actually
essential that that thrill
decreases so we can focus on
other things than just wanting
to be in bed with each other.
there for right now. You're
probably comparing it to what
you felt with your partner. And
wow, that's what you want to
have. Again, I get it. It's like
chasing a fantasy at this point.
Because even with a partner as I
just said it would fade at some
point. Can you have fulfilling
sex with your spouse?
Absolutely. Can you get to the
point of craving oneness, which
is not just sexual in nature,
but just sharing the deep
emotions of life? Yes. Is it
okay that you came back because
you thought it was the right
thing to do? That's my wife,
Allah sometime. I've been gone
three years and as Carlos if she
would be willing to take me
back. And when people ask her,
why did you take care back? Ron,
did you take Joe back? She says,
I felt like it was the right
thing to do. And if they ask
either one of us, Alice or me
world, were you in love with
each other when you got back
together? No, we weren't not. We
decided it was the right thing
to do. And at least we weren't
having that great animosity
anymore. We weren't fighting.
And over time, we'll learn how
to love each other. Now, do I
have the same thrill with Alice
I had when I left her for
another woman. No. But what we
have to get her both Alice and
me is so much deeper than that.
It's like it has deep roots.
It's the kind of love that
sustains you through life. So
no, you're not gonna have that
same thrill. But can you have a
deep, fulfilling, meaningful
relationship that has good
strong emotions involved in it?
Absolutely. Just don't expect to
happen overnight. And as best
you can, don't like compare now
to what happened in the affair.
Now that last one right there
don't compare what you have now
to Do what you felt like was
more love in the past, you have
said to me and said to a lot of
our audience that love is a
choice. So it's finding the
reasons to choose that. So one
of the exercises you have given
me and given others is make a
list. What does love look like
to you? What would have to be
true in order for you to love
him again, and maybe reflect on
that list, ask him to do the
same. If you feel comfortable,
if he has a safe spot for you
become a safe spot, but be
confident in who you are. And
know that it's not a quick fix.
And nothing we teach nothing.
Dr. Joe cheese has nothing that
Kimberly or any of our coaches
teach are a quick fix. For some
people. It is a quick switch.
But for most it takes time
quicker than others. Yeah. But
for most not Yeah, I had a lady
yesterday asked me for a magic
pill. And I said, Well, you
know, I saw one of those was
back in the 60s, back in the
1960s. And it's not going to
give you what you're looking for
what you're looking for takes
time.
Next question, my partner has
agreed to attend the workshop.
But what can we work on before
we're able to attend? He has had
a three year long affair. We
both want to reconcile, and
we're living together. But how
should we be communicating prior
to our workshop? We tend to
fight a lot.
Okay, we hear this question a
lot. And I think, Phil, that we
even have a video that one of
our car, whoever you interacted
with that helped you enroll in
the workshop you're coming to,
will know how to find this video
for you. But I did a video about
here's some things to do and not
do before you come to the
workshop. I'm not going to try
to replicate all of that here.
So let me just say a couple of
things. Number one, don't try to
deal with the issues right now.
We'll teach you some tremendous
tools, will you need to deal
with issues? Sure. But let's get
the right tools in your hands
before you do. Because each of
us when we don't have the right
tool to do something can wind up
messing it up before we realize
it. Not because we're bad people
not because we're dumb people.
But just because we don't have
the right tool at the moment. So
don't try to resolve your
issues, be kind to each other
and be comfortable with each
other, enjoy each other do not
deal with the issues now. Just
let this go is calmly and easily
you can tell you get to the
workshop. And in three days, we
will equip you with tons of
tools that you can use for your
relationship. So until then,
chill.
Recently, reviewing actually one
of our workshops and reviewing
my manual, you talk about how as
a teacher, you sometimes you say
things and people don't do them.
And that's the reason why you're
not a counselor. So we can
recommend people to listen to
you. But when Dr. Joe says chill
and be calm and try not to try
not your it's gonna be the
hardest try not to fix something
prior. Let the facilitator
whoever's teaching the workshop
and the breakout leaders and
coaches help you take the tools
we teach you there and move
forward towards better
reconciliation, and actually
help you fix those issues and
come up with solutions to fix
them. But don't try to do it
beforehand. Try it's like trying
to drive straight like trying to
fix a car before you watch a
YouTube video or read the
manual. You know something is
wrong. But if you don't have the
training to do it, please don't
try to do it prior.
So take the burden off yourself.
No, don't be the fixer. Take the
burden off yourself and just
calmly be the good, nice person
you are and we'll give you a
lots of tools and that worked
out.
Well. Thank you so much, Dr. Joe
for joining us today on this
episode of relationship radio.
And if you're listening to the
audio version, please make sure
to leave us a five star review
on iTunes. It really does help
the show. If you'd like to learn
more about our workshop, please
visit us at marriage helper.com