>> Describe it as hitting on a
tin roof.
♪
>> What you’re watching now
is the Branch Davidian compound
near Waco going off point. ♪
♪
>> The reason I’ve kept it
going as that felt that.
We need to be out and tell a
story from from our point of
view.
♪
>> Today, April 19th marks a
somber day in American history.
The purpose of KPRC 2 plus now
is to focus on what’s happening
now at this hour. But this
morning, our team wanted to
dedicate the top of the show
to the events that unfolded
30 years ago this morning in
Waco today. Also marks 28 years
since the Oklahoma City
bombing. Both events are
connected to my left is a live
picture of Oklahoma City.
We’re at 8.45, we will take you
there live to listen to a
ceremony. We begin with the
seas in the Waco more than 75
people in the compound died
during the fire, including 25
children. Only 9 survived.
11 people were charged. 8 were
convicted. 3 people were
acquitted, including Clive
Doyle, which brings us to our
guest this morning. Attorney
Dan Cogdell who represented
Mister Doyle all those years
ago. Thank you so much for
coming in studio to chat with
us this morning.
A lot to talk We have a few
minutes to talk about events
will walk us through.
>> Where you were when this
was all
unfolding.
>> Well, during the siege, a
stick together and had been
retained to represent David
Koresh and he was expecting you
know, a bunch of people would
be charged. Ultimately any
asked me to go or ask me to
represent Clive Doyle. And at
the time we figured that they
would be 80 people charged and
he wanted us to do it for free.
And I told him, you know,
there’s no way I could do this
for 2 or 3 year trial for free.
When the fire 30 years ago
today. My client, Clive Doyle,
survived. And Dick, Ask me to
go seek in Parkland Hospital
and I did. And after spending,
you know, a few minutes with
Clive, I decided what much of a
lawyer fighting volunteer my
time representing? Yeah.
>> I What happened in Waco is
a fresh new look. A lot of
attention because of a new
series airing on Showtime.
You have the opportunity to
go to that debut. That premiere
last week in New York. Your
takeaways
from that.
>> A If somebody would have
told me 30 later, I’d be
sitting in a posh New York
hotel being served champagne
finger food, but did not happen
here this morning, I don’t
drink so it was Brought back a
lot of good feelings, brought
back a lot of bad feelings.
>> Yeah. What is so captivating
about the events that
transpired in Waco 30 years
ago? I mean, I think from my
perspective, you can absolutely
draw a straight line from Waco
to Oklahoma City to January
6th. I think the way COVID has
for sort of the beginning of
the great cleavage that it’s
kept this country today.
You know that what I was I was
going to talk about that a lot
of people connecting the dots
between what happened then what
happened in Oklahoma City and
then of course, now 2 years ago
what do you want people to know
about? The siege in Waco?
>> It was completely
unnecessary,
completely unavoidable. The
acts of the law enforcement
during the or outrageous.
And I don’t think it should
never be forgotten.
>> With with how long I know
you’re set. You are saying you
are preparing to initially
represent 80.
>> Well, he had to be probably
misspoke.
Dick had asked me to represent
Clive door when we expected
there would be 80 charge
tonight. Writers know I could
do that financially, but one
client survived the fire.
He said, look, the guy that I
want you to represent actually
survived. Would you, you know?
That morning change the whole
landscape of what you were
intending on.
>> Sibley getting into yes to
some extent. But also I believe
the hype that the government
put out for 51 days that these
people were outside the bell
curve of normalcy. And there
are a bunch of freaks and urban
Chuck arrest. When I went and
went and met Clive, he was he’s
I mean, he’s religion. His
commitment to his faith was as
normal as Catholicism is can.
I even Davidian. His parents
were Davidian. That was normal
to him and he was no more a
conspirator to kill federal
law enforcement. You know that
I’m a male supermodel, right?
But before you had met, Clive,
are you watching this unfold,
Waco? Sure, sure. Everybody
was your takeaway of what
happened changed after meeting
Clive. It changed 2 points.
One on the 19th when they sent
tanks into the house. I
thought, you know, there’s no
reason to do that. And then
when I met Clive and recognize
the kind of person he was at
his core, that that certainly
change change my opinion as
well. What was it like
representing Clive during This
chaos? I know obviously the
media was around.
>> The way media covers events
has certainly changed over the
years. But some people calling
it a circus back then.
>> I mean, I have never seen
I’ve been doing this for 40
years. I’ve never seen as much
media attention, national and
international as we had during
that trial.
>> That my mentor, my role
model my mind. The whole reason
I became a lawyer was was was a
a great source. Haynes whose
past but
>> we were around high profile
cases all the time. So trying
to high-profile case in and of
itself. Wasn’t that big a deal
to me? What was singular about
this case was
the division folks is world
beyond that. We were getting
letters while we’re trying the case, pro letters hate letters.
case, pro letters hate letters.
I got a letter from Tim
McVeigh, a matter of fact.
it the division was the
remarkable thing about that
case for people not familiar
and how those 2 events are
connected. What is the
connection with Timothy
McVeigh, Waco and then shores,
the ball to Tim McVeigh?
reason that McVeigh chose to
blow up the Murrah Building in
Oklahoma City was them are
building houses, the largest
contingent of law enforcement
officers that were active
during the Branch Davidian
raid. So that was his way of
paying back the government by
blowing up the Murrah Building.
He was at the siege director
and a Durham Waco. So he was
very much. I mean, what Waco
was unquestionably the catalyst
for the evil that happened on
April 19. He did not live in
Waco. He didn’t know he just
went to a I know I was reading
an article and it was talking
about you were in court one
day federal agents had stormed
into the courtroom.
>> walk us through that.
That’s very interesting.
I had I was unaware of this.
on April 19th of well, that
would have been 28 years ago.
28 years ago, I’m in trial here
in federal court and just
another in federal court and a
bunch of suits blow through
the back door seats, meaning
guys with initials after the
enforcement they they didn’t
even say May we approach they
went straight to the bench.
>> The push for it with the
judge. The judge turned to the
jury and you know, would you
folks step back injury for
Mister Coghill? Can I see you
in my chambers?
And I thought, well, you later
my taxes. But this is so much
here and that the first thing
that the FBI asked me was, you
know, what was the last time
you talk to Clive Doyle?
You know, it’s been several
months why we think the
Oklahoma City building just
blew up. We think he did that.
And I’m like there’s there’s
no way he would. He would do
that. So because Clive was one
of the 3 acquitted, but he was
the only one that didn’t have
an immigration hold. You don’t
want liberty walked out.
So they naturally assume that
he had something to do with the
bombing of the Oklahoma City
building. Mister Doyle passed
away last year. He did it last
year. Did you stay in contact
with him throughout the years?
Shep? A sonically as you might
Clive was a little bit of an
odd So but but for the
professional relationship I had
with him, I really didn’t.
I didn’t have much of a
relationship which is not
unusual in my business. You
know, kind of like the news
business. You move on to the
next door in my business.
You next. Client course.
>> Did anything did he did his
beliefs of all of post the seas
know he was very much committed
to the idea that they would
correct with a profit.
>> He was very much committed
to the idea everything
was was was preordained mass
matter. Fact that the acquittal
we were having a celebration,
Clive kept saying to the media.
I just want to thank God and
David, correct for this
verdict. I just want to thank
God and David, correct for this
verdict and I was drinking in
those days after a few
sketches. I said I appreciate
his faith and his commitment,
but I just call the state bar
neither God nor David
corrections licensed. I’d like
a
>> or any of the other
survivors still around today?
Not. I mean, none of them are
in Texas. To my knowledge,
there’s a large contingent why
I think several are still
living in Hawaii. But again,
that’s 30 years ago.
>> the a lot of them have
either moved daughter passed
on.
>> Are people still following
Friday? Mister crashed today
in his his teachings is
preaching. If they are, that’s
not to my knowledge. No, the
the the compound is they have
sort of an information center
there in in Mount Carmel.
And it’s been taken over by
these. All right. Conspiracy
theories that have nothing to
do with the correction beliefs,
but they’re hugely
anti-government folks that are
there now. It’s it’s amazing
how it’s how it’s moved even
further to the right path.
What is it that you think is
makes Waco still relevant?
That’s a
good question. In my view, it
is that you can never
completely trust your period.
Full And if you do so, you do
so at your folly.
>> Yeah, and we’re seeing that,
you know, unfold and take shape
in events today. Absolutely.
30 years later, you think it’s
a fair comparison to draw?
Between the people of the
compound to that of of people
who are.
>> I I do to this extent in in
in today’s world where your
information is siloed off, so
specifically and your feed.
>> On on.
>> You know, ABC or CBS or NBC
is different than my feet on
the same thing. So you can find
your justification for your
police just about anywhere.
And and I think again, that
Waco was sort of the beginning
of this division. And unless
we get back to the center and
havs have dialogue and
discussion as opposed to
throwing using tanks are
throwing Molotov cocktails were