SORRY, WE'VE GOT A GUEST HERE, A MEMBER OF THE HOUSE PERMANENT
SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE.
DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN ERIC SWALWELL OF CALIFORNIA.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING ON THE SHOW THIS MORNING.
>> THANK YOU, MIKA. GOOD MORNING, GANG.
>> WE HAVE A LOT OF INVESTIGATIONS GOING ON, AND A
LOT WILL BE BOURN OUT LATER, BUT FROM DONALD TRUMP JR., THE NEWS
WITH HIM, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE MOST DAMAGING OR CONCERNING
REVELATION? >> HIS OWN WORDS HE ACKNOWLEDGED
AND VALIDATED THE E-MAILS IN THE MEETINGS.
AND SO WHEN YOU GO THROUGH THE WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE AND WHY,
WHO IS THE MOST SENIOR PRINCIPLES OF THE CAMPAIGN,
WHAT, THEY'RE RECEIVING INFORMATION THAT'S DAMAGING TO
HILLARY CLINTON, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN HACKED, WHERE, AT TRUMP
TOWER, A FLOOR BELOW WHERE THE PRESIDENT WAS SITTING.
WHEN, JUST BEFORE RUSSIA RELEASED THE E-MAILS JUST BEFORE
THE CONVENTION JUST BEFORE CARTER PAGE TRAVELS OVER TO
MOSCOW. AND WHY, TO CHEAT FOREIGN
ELECTION TO HELP HIS DAD. I MEAN, IT'S DAMAGING AT EVERY
LEVEL. IT ACTUALLY REMINDS ME WHEN YOU
GO TO THE EYE DOCTOR FOR A VISION TEST AND THEY SHOW YOU A
LENS THAT EITHER MAKES THE PICTURE CLEARER OR BLURRIER.
AND EACH PIECE OF EVIDENCE HERE MAKES THE PICTURE CLEARER.
IT LOOKS LIKE THEY WERE WORKING WITH THE RUSSIANS.
>> MARK HALPERIN. >> ON THE SENATE SIDE APPEARS TO
BE A FAIR AMOUNT OF CONFIDENCE ON THE DEMOCRATIC COLLEAGUES
THAT SENATE REPUBLICANS ARE NOW COMMITTED TO GET TO THE BOTTOM
OF ALL THIS. DO YOU HAVE THE SAME LEVEL OF
CONFIDENCE IN THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS AND COMMITTEE
RUNNING THIS INVESTIGATION? >> YES.
MIKE CONAWAY HAS STEERED US BACK IN THE RIGHT COURSE.
WE ARE INTERVIEWING WITNESSES AS WE GO THROUGH THIS WEEK.
AND WE'VE DONE SO IN THE PAST WEEKS.
AND SO OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE NEW INDIVIDUALS BASED ON WHAT WE'RE
LEARNING WHO WE WANT TO BRING IN.
AS LONG AS WE SHOW PROGRESS AND WE'RE INDEPENDENT AND HAVE
CREDIBILITY, I THINK THAT'S A GOOD THING.
>> KASIE HUNT. >> CONGRESSMAN SWALWELL, THERE
HAVE BEEN SOME QUESTIONS HERE ABOUT WHAT IS COMING OUT INTO
THE PUBLIC DOMAIN IS ALREADY PART OF THE BODY OF KNOWLEDGE
THAT CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATORS OR BOB MUELLER, THE SPECIAL
PROSECUTOR, HAVE AVAILABLE TO THEM.
I'M NOT ASKING YOU TO REVEAL CLASSIFIED INFORMATION, BUT CAN
YOU GIVE US A SENSE OF HOW MUCH NEW YOU ARE LEARNING EVERY DAY
FROM THE NEWS AND HOW MUCH YOU HAVE TO BITE YOUR TONGUE TO NOT
TELL US ADDITIONAL THINGS THAT THE COMMITTEES ALREADY KNOW?
>> YEAH, ALSO MAKES IT HARD FOR ME AT HOME WHEN MY WIFE SAYS,
WAIT, DID YOU ALREADY KNOW THAT? SO AS WE RECEIVE THIS
INFORMATION, THE WAY I SEE IT IS TO ME AND TO MANY PEOPLE IT'S
NOT SHOCKING, IT'S NOT BIZARRE, IT FITS THE PICTURE.
SHOCKING AND BIZARRE WOULD HAVE BEEN IF THEY WERE MEETING WITH
AUSTRALIANS. BUT THEY WERE MEETING WITH
RUSSIANS WHO THEY HAD PERSONAL, POLITICAL AND FINANCIAL
RELATIONSHIPS WITH. SO, AGAIN, IT FITS THE PICTURE
OF ALL OF THE OTHER EVIDENCE THAT WE PUT FORWARD.
MOST OF IT IN THE PUBLICLY AVAILABLE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY
REPORT. >> CONGRESSMAN, AS A MEMBER OF
THE HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE, I ASSUME YOU HAVE A
CERTAIN LEVEL OF CLEARANCE TO LISTEN AND HEAR AND SIT IN ON
SOME OF THE HEARINGS YOU SIT IN. SO IF YOU WERE TO SIT IN ON A
MEETING WITH SOMEONE WHO CAME IN FROM RUSSIA, AN ATTORNEY WHO
CAME IN FROM RUSSIA AND YOU SAT IN A ROOM AND LISTENED AND
SUPPOSEDLY THEY HAD ALLEGEDLY SOME INFORMATION THAT WOULD
EFFECT THE AMERICAN POLITICAL SYSTEM AND YOU CHOSE NOT TO
SHARE THIS INFORMATION OR REPORT THIS MEETING TO OTHER PEOPLE,
MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE, WHATEVER, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO
YOUR SECURITY CLEARANCE? >> I WOULD VERY LIKELY, I BET,
BE REMOVED FROM THE COMMITTEE FOR HAVING AN UNDISCLOSED
MEETING WITH A FOREIGN NATIONAL. AGAIN, WHEN YOU GO THROUGH THE
SPECTRUM OF FOREIGN NATIONALS, THERE ARE THOSE WHO ARE ALLIES
LIKE REALLY CLOSE ALLIES LIKE THE BRITS, LIKE THE CANADIANS.
AND THEN THERE ARE THOSE WHO ARE JUST NOT OUR FRIEND.
AND WHEN YOU RECEIVE SOMETHING FROM RUSSIA, YOU ARE IN THE AREA
OF TAKING INFORMATION FROM SOMEONE WHO'S NOT OUR FRIEND.
I THINK MOST PEOPLE WHETHER YOU HAVE A BACKGROUND IN POLITICS OR
A BACKGROUND IN BUSINESS KNOW THAT AND WOULD HAVE PASSED THIS
ALONG TO THE FBI AS WAS DONE BACK IN DURING THE BUSH/GORE
DEBATE, IF YOU REMEMBER. THE GORE TEAM WAS GIVEN
BACKGROUND INFORMATION, ILLEGALLY OBTAINED, ABOUT
CANDIDATE BUSH, AND THEY PASSED THAT ALONG TO THE FBI.
THAT'S WHAT REASONABLE PEOPLE DO.
>> CONGRESSMAN, IT'S WILLIE GEIST.
I WANT TO RUN PAST YOU THE TWO DEFENSES GIVEN LAST NIGHT BY
DONALD TRUMP JR. OF TAKING THIS MEETING AND SEE IF THEY COMPEL
YOU IN ANY WAY OR AT LEAST WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT IT.
THE FIRST ONE WAS, WE WERE NAIVE.
WE'RE NEW TO POLITICS, WE'VE NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE.
I THOUGHT TS WAS PART OF THE RESEARCH PROCESS.
I WANTED TO SUSZ OUT SOME OF THESE THEORIES HE'D HEARD ONLINE
AND ABOUT OTHER INFORMATION HEARD ON CLINTON.
NUMBER TWO WAS, IT WAS A NOTHING MEETING, IT WASN'T EVEN WORTH
REPORTING, WASN'T EVEN WORTH TELLING MY FATHER ABOUT THE
CANDIDATE AT THE TIME BECAUSE WE WALKED IN IT WAS ADVERTISED AS
SOME BIG INTEL MEETING ABOUT HILLARY CLINTON AND IT DIDN'T
HAPPEN. IT WAS MORE ABOUT ADOPTION THAN
ANYTHING ELSE. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF EACH OF
THOSE ARGUMENT SNS. >> IGNORANCE IS NOT A DEFENSE,
ESPECIALLY FOR A HIGH LEVEL EXECUTIVE LIKE DONALD TRUMP JR.
LOOK, YOU'RE PLAYING IN THE MAJORS NOW.
YOU'RE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
THE PITCHES COME FASTER, THE STRIKE ZONE IS A LITTLE BIT
DIFFERENT. AND SO YOU CAN'T, YOU KNOW,
PLEAD THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT YOU WERE GETTING INTO.
ALSO AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, THE MEETING WAS NOT SIGNIFICANT,
THIS PERSON CAME WITH AN INTERPRETER, I THINK ALL OF US
IF WE THINK BACK OVER THE LAST YEAR YOU CAN THINK OF THE NUMBER
OF MEETINGS YOU HAD WITH SOMEBODY WHO BROUGHT AN
INTERPRETER TO THE MEETING. ALSO, RUSSIA BECAME A VERY HOT
ISSUE OVER THE COURSE OF THE NEXT FEW MONTHS.
THEY KNEW IT WAS A BIG DEAL AND THE PRESIDENT AND OTHERS ON HIS
TEAM CONSISTENTLY SAID NEVER MET WITH RUSSIANS, NEVER HAD
COLLUSION. THEY SAID THAT REFRAIN OVER AND
OVER AND OVER AGAIN. AND ALL THE WHILE THIS MEETING
HAD TAKEN PLACE AND WAS NOT DISCLOSED.
>> MARK HALPERIN, I WANT TO ASK YOU QUICKLY, HAS IT SUNK INTO
REPUBLICANS, OR DO THEY JUST KEEP MOVING FORWARD?
HAS IT SUNK INTO REPUBLICANS ON THE HILL THAT THEY HAVE BEEN
LIED TO BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, BY MEMBERS OF
THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND
OVER AGAIN ABOUT NEVER MEETING WITH THE RUSSIANS, NEVER DURING
THE CAMPAIGN? >> THEY HAVE BECOME THE BEST
COMPARTMENTALIZERS SINCE BILL CLINTON IN HOLDING THAT THOUGHT
IN THEIR HEAD AND FEELING IT THIS WEEK AS MUCH AS I'VE HEARD
THEM EXPRESS IT AND YET STILL GRINDING THROUGH THE LEGISLATIVE
PROCESS AND HAVING LOTS OF INTERACTIONS WITH THE
ADMINISTRATION TRYING TO MOVE THE AGENDA FORWARD.
BUT THE PRESIDENT'S BEHAVIOR ON HEALTH CARE AND ALL OF THIS
RUSSIA STUFF HAS LEFT THE RELATIONSHIPS LARGELY IN A VERY
TENUOUS POSITION, EVEN AMONGST THEIR BIGGEST DEFENDERS.
>> WHAT'S AT STAKE THE MOST RELATIONSHIP ON THE HILL, WHAT
IS HIS STATE, WHAT'S THE RELATIONSHIP WITH MITCH
McCONNELL? WHAT IS MITCH McCONNELL'S VIEW
FROM WHAT YOU CAN REPORT ON BEHIND THE SCENES?
WHAT HAVE YOU HEARD MITCH McCONNELL'S VIEW OF DONALD TRUMP
IS? >> IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE ONE OF THE
PRESIDENT'S TWEETS THIS MORNING WAS A TWEET SUPPORTIVE OF MITCH
McCONNELL. BUT McCONNELL WANTS TO GET STUFF
DONE. AND HE AND PAUL RYAN ALTHOUGH
UNLIKE EACH OTHER IN SOME WAYS ARE AS I UNDERSTAND IT BOTH
COMPARTMENTALIZING FULLY. THEY CAN TALK AND SOMETIMES DO
TALK PRIVATELY SHAKING THEIR HEAD, CHAPTER AND VERSE
PARTICULARLY ON THE RUSSIA STUFF AND THE WHITE HOUSE'S LACK OF
SMOOTH OPERATIONS IN DEALING WITH THESE ISSUES, BUT AT THE
SAME TIME HAVING LOTS OF INTERACTIONS WITH THE WHITE
HOUSE IN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO SOLVE HEALTH CARE, THE
DEBT CEILING, THE BUDGET, DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION.
THERE'S JUST TOO MUCH TO DO. AND, AGAIN, YOU CAN CALL IT
CYNICAL OR PARTISAN, OR YOU CAN SIMPLY SAY THEY'RE DEALING WITH
THE REALITY OF THEIR LIVES THAT IS SIMILAR TO WHAT THEY DEALT
WITH IN THE CAMPAIGN WHEN THEY WERE NOT ENTHUSIASTIC SUPPORTERS
OF THE PRESIDENT'S. THIS IS THE REALITY OF THEIR
LIFE. I'LL JUST SAY ONE MORE THING,
AND THIS GOES TO THE TED CRUZ ISSUE.
DONALD TRUMP FOR ALL THIS POLITICAL FRAILTY RIGHT NOW HAS
EASILY THE BIGGEST MOVEMENT WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY
BEHIND HIM AND EVERY MEMBER OF CONGRESS KNOWS THAT.
>> AND KASIE HUNT, THIS REMINDS ME SO MUCH OF THE 1990s WHERE IF
I WAS DOWN IN THE HOUSE GYM OR IN THE HOUSE DINING ROOM,
DEMOCRATS WOULD BE AS WE SAY IN NORTHWEST FLORIDA, DOG CUSSING
BILL CLINTON, CALLING HIM A LIAR, CALLING HIM A SCUMBAG
SAYING THEY WOULD NEVER LET HIM AROUND THEIR DAUGHTERS OR WIVES,
SAYING HE'S A DOG AND TRASHING HIM NONSTOP AND THEN GO UP ON
THE HOUSE FLOOR AND THEY WOULD DEFEND HIM.
AND THEN THEY'D COME DOWN AND THEY WOULD TRASH HIM AND SAY
HE'S A HORRIBLE HUMAN BEING, A DISGRACE -- AND IT WAS LIKE HOW
DO YOU DO THAT? I COULDN'T FIGURE OUT HOW THEY
DID THAT. BY THE WAY, THIS DIDN'T START
WITH MONICA. THIS STARTED WELL BACK BEFORE
MONICA, SOME OF HIS MOST PUBLIC DEFENDERS WERE THE VERY PEOPLE
THAT SAID HE'S JUST A LIAR. YOU CAN'T TRUST ANYTHING THAT HE
SAYS TO YOUR FACE. AND YET IN PUBLIC THEY WERE THE
STRONGEST DEFENDERS OF BILL CLINTON.
IT SEEMS THAT NOW THE SHOE IS ON THE OTHER FOOT AND REPUBLICANS
ARE DOING THE SAME THING FOR THIS MAN.
SO IS THIS ALL FOR HEALTH CARE? ARE THEY GOING TO GET A HEALTH
CARE BILL DONE? >> Reporter: WELL, FIRST OF ALL,
JOE, LOOK, WHAT THESE LAWMAKERS SAY IN PUBLIC WHEN THEY'RE ASKED
ABOUT DONALD TRUMP IS VERY SHARPLY DISCONNECTED FROM WHAT
THEY SAY IN PRIVATE. THE NUMBER OF EYE ROLLS, THE
NUMBER OF CURSE WORDS AS YOU SAY, I MEAN, ALL OF THAT COMES
OUT HERE ON CAPITOL HILL. THIS IS A BUNCH OF REPUBLICANS
WHO STILL VERY MUCH DO NOT KNOW HOW TO GRAPPLE WITH THIS
PRESIDENT. AND BEHIND THE SCENES IT'S A
MUCH DIFFERENT DIALOGUE WHICH MARK ALLUDED TO A LITTLE BIT
THAN IT IS IN PUBLIC. I THINK YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT
ABOUT THAT. AND THAT'S A PHENOMENON THAT'S
CONTINUING. I THINK, LOOK, ON THIS BROADER
QUESTION OF RUSSIA, WHETHER OR NOT IT'S GOING TO MATTER, IT MAY
NOT MATTER AT TOWN HALLS RIGHT NOW.
I THINK IF BOB MUELLER FINDS SOMETHING, IT IS GOING TO
MATTER, IT'S DPOING TO MATTER A LOT.
IF HE FINDS NOTHING, THEN THE ARGUMENT THAT THE PRESIDENT
KEEPS MAKING THAT THE MEDIA IS LYING TO YOU, PRESENTING A STORY
THAT'S NOT TRUE, THAT IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT I THINK HIS
BASE IS GOING TO LATCH ONTO EVEN MORE.
I THINK THAT'S A LOT OF WHAT YOU'RE SEEING DRIVING THEIR
DECISIONS HERE. ON HEALTH CARE I THINK IT'S
STILL A VERY OPEN QUESTION. I THINK THERE'S BEEN A SENSE
AMONG SOME DEMOCRATS THAT WHILE THEY LOVE THE RUSSIA STORY OF
THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS, THEY FEEL LIKE IT'S DISTRACTED FROM A
CAMPAIGN TO TRY AND KILL THIS HEALTH CARE BILL.
AND THEY FELT LIKE THEY WERE HAVING SOME SUCCESS AT THAT.
SO I'VE SEEN SOME DEMOCRATS TRY TO KIND OF SOUND THE ALARM TO
DEMOCRATS GENERALLY, SAY, HEY, DON'T LET THIS SHINY OBJECT OF
RUSSIA DISTRACT YOU FROM FOCUSING ON HEALTH CARE POLICY.
REPUBLICANS STILL HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO ON HEALTH CARE.
MY SENSE SEEMS TO BE THAT THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO WIND UP
IN A PLACE WHERE THEY HAVE TO DO A BIPARTISAN BILL THAN THEY
AREN'T RIGHT NOW, BUT I THINK THERE'S STILL SOME TWISTS AND
TURNS TO COME WITH THIS REPUBLICAN-ONLY LANGUAGE.
>> KASIE HUNT, THANK YOU. AND MEMBER OF THE HOUSE INTEL
COMMITTEE, CONGRESSMAN ERIC SWALWELL, THANK YOU AS WELL.
>> MY PLEASURE. >> STILL AHEAD ON "MORNING JOE,"
WAEL HEAR FROM THE PRESIDENT'S PERSONAL LAWYER AFTER DONALD
TRUMP JR. GIVES UP THE DIRT ON HIMSELF.
WE'RE GOING TO PLAY