THE COO LAPS OF THE CHAMPLAIN TOWER SOUTH RAISINGS A HOST OF LEGAL ISSUES, QUESTIONS ABOUT
LIABILITY, FINANCIAL
RESPONSIBILITY AND COMPENSATION
FOR LOSS.
>> HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS ARE
AN IMPORTANT PART OF THAT
EQUATION.
WE TALKED ABOUT THAT.
DAVID LABORER IS ONE OF THE
LEADING ATTORNEYS IN SOUTH
FLORIDA DEALING WITH
CONSTRUCTION LAW AND THAT
INVOLVES REPRESENTING THE
HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS THAT
MAKE THE DECISIONS FOR THOSES
BUILDINGS.
AND IS HE HERE WITH US LIVE.
GOOD MORNING DAVID.
>> DAVID, GOOD AFTERNOON, SORRY.
>> GOOD AFTERNOON.
>> GLENNA AND MICHAEL.
IT’S NICE TO SEE YOU BOTH.
UNFORTUNATELY IN THIS TRAGIC
CIRCUMSTANCES.
>> SO JUST WANT TO-- YOU ARE NOT
PART OF THIS FIRST HAND, THIS
BUILDING, ANY OF THE CHAMPLAIN
TOWERS, ARE YOU NOT REPRESENTING
THOSE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS
WHICH GIVES US HERE A LEVEL OF
OBJECTIVITY WE MIGHT NOT
ORDINARILY HAVE.
>> THAT IS CORRECT.
>> DAVID, IF I CAN, LET ME BEGIN
WITH SOME, ASKING YOU SOME LEGAL
QUESTIONS.
I MEAN THE 136 UNITS IN THAT
BUILDING, I’M SURE THAT EACH
HOMEOWNER HAD SOME KIND OF
INSURANCE.
THE HOA HAS INSURANCE.
WHO IS GOING TO PAY THE PEOPLE
WHO LOST THEIR HOMES AND THEIR
LIVES IN THIS CASE, WILL THE
INSURANCE COMPANIES TRY TO SHOW
SQUIRREL OUT OF THIS?
>> WELL, MICHAEL, YOU ASK A VERY
INTERESTING QUESTION.
EACH PERSON HAS HOMEOWNER
INSURANCE FOR WHAT WE CALL THE
WALLS IN, BUT THE STRUCTURE
ITSELF IS COVERED BY THE
CONDOMINIUM ASSOCIATION
INSURANCE, WHICH TIP CLEA HAS A
VALUE OF THE VALUE OF THE
BUILDING ITSELF.
AND WHAT IT MIGHT COST TO
REBUILD THAT BUILDING.
AND WHETHER INSURANCE CARRIER OR
CARRIERS WILL TRY TO SQUIRREL
OUT, TONGUE IN CHEEK, THE ANSWER
IS I HAVE NEVER SEEN AN
INSURANCE CARRIER THAT DOESN’T
TRY TO FIND AN EXCLUSION OR
EXCEPTION TO COVERAGE.
HOWEVER IF AND WHEN THE LAWSUITS
COME, BECAUSE THERE MAY BE A
TENDER OF THE POLICY LIMIT, THE
PROBLEM HERE IS THAT THERE IS
SUCH A LARGE AND TRAGIC LOSS OF
PEOPLE THAT EVEN IF SOME ARE
RECOVERED ALIVE, THEY ARE
PRESUMABLY WILL BE MANY THAT ARE
NOT SO LUCKY, THAT THE INSURANCE
COVERAGE INCLUDING THE UMBRELLA
COVERAGE WOULD NOT NECESSARILY
PROVIDE ANY SOL AS TO FAMILY
MEMBERS.
>> AS YOU ARE SPEAKING WE ARE
LOOKING AT VIDEO OF THE RECOVERY
WORK GOING ON RIGHT NOW.
DAVID, WE TALKED FOR THE LAST
TEN MINUTES OR SO WITH THE MAN
YOU KNOW WELL, RICK SLIDER,
STRUCTURAL ENGINEER.
AND HE SAID SOMETHING TOWARD THE
END OF OUR SEGMENT THAT
HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS DON’T
WANT, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE
REALLY EXPENSIVE PROJECTS OF
REIMMEDIATE YAITION, RESTORATION
AND REPAIR THAT WERE IDENTIFIED
IN THIS 2018 REPORT.
HE SAID QUOTE HOMEOWNERS
ASSOCIATION, THEY DON’T WANT TO
PAY FOR IT.
AND HE WAS TALKING GENERALLY, OF
COURSE, NOT ABOUT THIS, CLEARLY.
AS A HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATION, THE
BOARD REPRESENTING RESIDENTS,
WOULD YOU SEE THE KINDS OF
WARNINGS, REALLY, THAT ARE IN
THIS REPORT, HOW CAN YOU NOT
WANT TO FIND A WAY TO PAY FOR
THAT?
WHAT IS THAT LIKE?
TAKE US THROUGH THAT KIND OF
MINDSET AND PROCESS.
>> THE PROCESS IS AN INTERESTING
ONE.
BUT IT IS ALSO A POLITICAL ONE.
AND WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT
BOARD MEMBERS ARE ELECTED.
AND THEY’RE ELECTED BY OWNERS.
AND MANY OF THESE OLDER
BUILDINGS UP AND DOWN OUR
COASTS.
AND I KNOW THAT CHANNEL 10 GOES
UP AND DOWN THE COAST, SO IF YOU
WERE TO GO FROM LET’S JUST SAY
CORAL GABLES ALL THE WAY UP TO
PALM BEACH, YOU WILL FIND OLDER
CONCRETE BUILDINGS, MANY OF
WHICH HAVE PEOPLE WITH FIXED
INCOMES.
THE IDEA THAT IN THE 39th OR
40th YEAR THEY’RE GOING TO
GET HIT WITH A 25,000, 50,000
DOLLAR ASSESSMENT IS QUITE A
WAKE-UP CALL, IF YOU WILL, TO
PEOPLE WHO MAY NOT HAVE THE
MEANS NECESSARY.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, AND ONE
OF THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE AND I
DO KNOW FRIENDS OF MINE WHO HAVE
RELATIVES THAT WERE IN THAT
BUILDING THAT ARE STILL
UNACCOUNTED FOR.
ONE OF THE THINGS THEY ASKED ME,
WHAT CAN YOU DO TO HELP CHANGE
THE LEGISLATION.
AND I THINK IT STARTS WITH THE
FACT THAT WE HAVE RESERVE
ACCOUNTS.
BUT IT’S JUST TOO EASY TO WAIVE
THOSE RESERVES, ESPECIALLY FOR
STRUCTURAL COMPONENTS.
OR YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO POOL
RESERVES AND SPEND THE MONEY ON
YOUR LOBBY RENOVATION BECAUSE
WHAT THE LOBBY LOOKS LIKE IS
GOING TO GET YOU A HIGHER FAIR
MARKET VALUE RATHER THAN WHAT
THE GARAGE PILLARS LOOK LUKE.
AND STRUCTURAL SUPPORT COLUMES.
SOONER OR LATER YOU HAVE TO PAY
THE PIPER.
AND IF YOU WAIVE RESERVES OR
HAVE INSUFFICIENT RESERVES
SOMEBODY IS BEING TO HAND YOU A
BILL IN YEAR 40 THAT IT IS VERY
DIFFICULT FOR A BOARD TO SAY
HEY, WE NEED TO COME UP WITH $8
MILLION.
NOW YOU CAN GET A LOAN BUT THE
PAYMENTS ARE STILL SIGNIFICANT.
>> I JUST WANT TO REFRAME, SORRY
TO INTERRUPT.
I WANT TO REFRAME SORT OF IN
LAYMAN’S ENGLISH WHAT I THINK
I’M HEARING YOU SAY.
IS THAT HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION
WAIT WHAT 40 YEARS BEFORE
PUTTING MONEY INTO ANYTHING
STRUCTURAL BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO?
>> I WOULD SAY THAT SOME
ASSOCIATIONS EITHER DEFER
RESERVES, PARTIALLY FUND
RESERVES OR WAIVE RESERVES.
AND THEY CAN DO THAT YEAR AFTER
YEAR AFTER YEAR.
NOW THE LAW IS THAT YOU NEED A
MAJORITY OF A QUORUM AND
EVERYBODY’S CONDOMINIUM
DOCUMENTS ARE DIFFERENT BUT
WE’VE SEEN CONDOMINIUMS THAT
HAVE AS LOW AS 33 AND A THIRD
PERCENT FOR A QUORUM, OR EVEN
LOWER.
SO LET ME JUST GIVE YOU A
LAYMAN’S TERM ON THAT.
IF YOU HAVE A HUNDRED UNIT
OWNERS YOU NEED 34 TO SHOW UP TO
A SPECIAL MEETING AND 18 TO VOTE
IN FAVOR OF WAIVING RESERVES, SO
YOU CAN DO THAT YEAR AFTER YEAR
AFTER YEAR AND IF IN YEARS,
LET’S JUST SAY 30 TO 40 YOU ARE
WAIVING RESERVES AND THE BILL
COMES IN AT 4 OR $5 MILLION,
THAT IS A LOT OF MONEY.
THAT IS $50,000 PER UNIT.
>> RIGHT.
>> WELL, WE DO KNOW, DAVID, THAT
THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION AT
CHAMPLAIN TOWERS APPARENTLY HAD
REACHED AN AGREEMENT NOT TO
WAIVE RESERVES BUT IN FACT TO
ASSESS BUILDING OWNERS.
THEY HAD A PAYMENT AMOUNT SET
UP.
WE DON’T KNOW HOW MUCH IT WAS.
OVER 180 MONTH PERIOD.
I MEAN IT MUST HAVE BEEN A LARGE
ASSESSMENT ON THAT BUILDING, OR
ELSE WHY PUT IT OVER A 15 YEAR
PERIOD.
>> WELL, AS YOU HEARD FROM
MR. SLIDER, THERE WAS
SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE WITH THE POOL
DECK AND THE SLAB AND THEY
NEEDED TO RIP UP THE PAVERS.
THIS IS VERY EXPENSIVE.
I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT, HAVE I
HAD ASSOCIATIONS THAT THEY DON’T
WANT THE POOL DECK CLOSED DURING
SUMMER TIME.
THERE IS A LOT OF POLITICS IN
CONDOMINIUM ASSOCIATIONS.
YOU JUST NEED TO UNDERSTAND
THESE ARE ELECTED PEOPLE.
HAVE I HAD ASSOCIATIONS WHERE IF
THEY WANTED TO PASS A BIG
SPECIAL ASSESSMENT THEY WERE
VOTED OUT OF OFFICE.
>> YEAH.
>> BUT THE OTHER THING I WANT TO
POINT OUT IS I THINK THAT THE 40
YEAR CERTIFICATION PROCESS NEEDS
TO CHANGE.
FOR EXAMPLE IT TAKES TIME TO
HIRE THE ENGINEER, HAVE THE
REPORT DONE, HAVE THE REPORT
ISSUED, THEN THE ENGINEER HAS TO
COME UP WITH PLANS AND
SPEFNTIONS.
>> IF I CAN INTERRUPT YOU, RICK,
LET ME ASK YOU THE QUESTION, IN
FACT, THAT WE ASKED RICK SLIDER
IS FOR SOCIAL FRONT BUILDINGS
WHICH ARE OPEN TO THE COR ROSE
OF SALT AIR AN WATER-- COR
ROATION, SALT SHALL SHOULD THE
RECERTIFICATE IF I KAITION BE 25
YEARS OR 30 YEARS, NOT 40 YEARS.
>> WELL, I THINK WE COULD TAKE
AT AT 30 YEARS, I DON’T KNOW
ABOUT 20 YEARS AM BUT I KNOW
THIS, BETWEEN THE TIME OF THE
ENGINEER GETTING INTO THE
BUILDING AND THE TIME THE PLANS
ARE DONE AND SUBMITTED AND A
CONTRACTOR IS VETTED, BECAUSE
YOU NEED THREE BIDS FOR
CONTRACTS-- CONTRACTORS FOR
CONDOMINIUM T CAN TAKE A YEAR OR
TWO.
AND THEN THE REIMMEDIATE YAITION
EFFORT CAN TAKE ANYWHERE FROM
ONE TO THREE YEARS BECAUSE YOU
SAW HOW EXPECKS-- EXPENSIVE THE
REIMMEDIATE YAITION NEEDS TO BE
WITH RESPECT TO THE
APPROXIMATELY DECK AND THE
COLUMES, SO YOU MAY BE TALKING
ABOUT A FOUR KREER PROCESS PLUS
MINE US, SO IF YOU ARE STARTING
AND YOU ARE 39, YOUR 40 YEAR
CERTIFICATION MAY NOT BE
FINALIZED UNTIL YEAR 33 OR 44 AN
I THINK THAT IS PROBLEMATIC.
>> WE SEE FROM THESE DOCUMENTS
THAT THE PERMITS WAS PULLED LAST
MONTH.
SO DAVID, WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT
WHAT WE HAVE HEARD ELECTED
OFFICIALS CALL FOR LEGISLATIVE
CHANGE.
SO SIT TIGHT, WE’LL TAKE A
COUPLE MINUTES PREAK AND TALK
ABOUT THAT WHEN WE COME BACK.
WE ARE BACK ON THIS SPECIAL EDITION OF THIS WEEK IN SOUTH FLORIDA SPEAKING WITH ATTORNEY
DAVID HABBER WHO DOES A LOT OF
WORK IN CONSTRUCTION AND
BUILDING AND HOMEOWNERS
ASSOCIATIONS, DAVID IN THE LAST
SEGMENT WE STARTED TALKING ABOUT
THESE 40 YEAR RESETTER IF I
KAITIONS, ALL THE WORK THAT GOES
INTO THEM.
AND WE STARTED BY TALKING ABOUT
IS THAT AN APPROPRIATE LENGTH OF
TIME FOR HIGH-RISE BUILDINGS
FACING COR ROSSIVE ENVIRONMENTS
LIKE SALT AND WATER, ET CETERA,
HERE IS MY QUESTION TO TU.
THE LEGISLATIVE CHANGES THAT
WE’RE HEARING ELECTED OFFICIALS
NOW WANT TO MAKE IN LIGHT OF THE
COLLAPSE AND WHAT IT WILL REVEAL
, THEY ARE SAYING AT LEAST
THREE CITIES THAT WE KNOW OF
WILL, ON THE COAST, WILL BE
DOING INVENTORY IS THE WORD
THEY’RE USING OF ALL THEIR OLDER
BUILDINGS, MY QUESTION IS WHY
WOULD AN INVENTORY NOT BE
REDUNDANT IF A 40 YEAR RESETTER
WAS BEING DONE PROPERLY AND
WHAWD WHA SHOULD BE DONE BECAUSE
OF WHAT WE KNOW OF MATERIALS AND
COSTS THAT THE LEGISLATIVE
PROCESS CAN CHANGE.
WELL I THINK GLENNA THAT YOU
HAVE TO UNSAN THAT BUILDING
OFFICIALS IN MOST CASES ARE NOT
STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS.
AND THEY DO RELY AS MR. SLIDER
SAID ON OUTSIDE CONSULTANTS AND
STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS THAT
CERTIFY THESE BUILDINGS AM BUT I
THINK HE RAISED AN EXCELLENT
POINT ABOUT WHY DID IT TAKE SO
LONG.
I THINK MAYBE SOME OF THE
LEGISLATION HAS TO BE THAT YOU
MUST INITIATE THE COMMENCEMENT
OF REIMMEDIATE YAITION EFFORTS
WITHIN X PERIOD OF TIME OF
RECEIVING THE REPORT WHICH TAKES
IT OUT OF THE HANDS OF BOARD
MEMBERS AND THE POLITICS OF CAN
WE PASS THIS ASSESSMENT, SHOULD
WE PASS THIS ASSESSMENT.
IT BECOMES, IF YOU WILL, STATE
MANDATED THAT IT HAS TO BE DONE.
I THINK IT IS A GOOD IDEA AT
THIS POINT TO HAVE BUILDINGS
CHECKED BUT REMEMBER THAT BOARDS
HAVE FIDUCIARY DUTIES TO DOMAIN
TANS AND UPKEEP WOVMENT KNOWS IF
THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE BECAUSE
NOBODY REALLY SHOULD SPECULATE.
BUT OBVIOUSLY THE ENGINEER WHO
DID THE REPORT IN 2018 SAID THAT
THE PRIOR A CEMENTS TO REPORT
WERE INFECTIONIVE SO THE
QUESTION BECOMES WERE THEY JUST
TRYING TO PUT A BANDAID ON, WAS
THAT BECAUSE THEY DIDN’T WANT TO
SPEND THE MONEY?
IT’S UNKNOWN AT THIS POINT AND
IT IS HARD TO SAY.
>> DAVID, LET ME IF BACK WITHOUT
BEING REDUNDANT, LET ME GO BACK
AND DIG A LITTLE BIT DEEPER, ASK
YOU TO DIG DEEPER INTO THIS
INSURANCE ISSUE BECAUSE I JUST
SIMPLY HAVE CERTAINLY MISGIVINGS
THAT THE PEOPLE WHO LOST THEIR
HOMES AND WHO CANNOT GO BACK TO
THE REMAIN PART OF THE CHAMPLAIN
TOWER THAT THE INSURANCE
COMPANIES ARE GOING TO FIGHT
THEM.
I KNOW THAT AT LEAST THE
INSURANCE COMPANIES REQUIRE THE
BUILDINGS BE HELD, BE KEPT IN
QUOTE REASONABLY SAFE CONDITION.
DO YOU THINK IN FACT THE
INSURANCE COMPANIES AGAIN ARE
DID GOING TO SAY WE HAVE
DEMONSTRABLE EVIDENCE THAT THIS
BUILDING WAS NOT KEPT IN
REASONABLY SAFE CONDITION?
I BELIEVE THAT ULTIMATELY THERE
WILL BE CLAIMS AGAINST FORMER
BOARD MEMBERS FOR NOT MOVING
QUICKLY ENOUGH, MAYBE AGAINST,
AND I DON’T WANT TO SPECULATE
BUT UNFORTUNATELY MR. MORBIDO,
FOR NOT WAIVING A LARGER RED
FLAG AFTER THE BUILDING WASN’T
STARTING THE REPAIRS EARLY
ENOUGH, THERE WILL BE CLAIMS
AGAINST THE PRIOR REIMMEDIATE
YAITION COMPANY THAT APPARENTLY
DID INFECTIONIVE REPAIRS AND
THERE WILL BE OFFICERS AND
DIRECTORS CLAIMS, THE CASUALTY
INSURANCE, YOU KNOW, THERE IS
GOING TO BE DIFFERENT GROUPS OF
PEOPLE SEEKING MONEY.
YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE THE PEOPLE
WHO UNFORTUNATELY TRAGICALLY
HAVE LOST FAMILY MEMBERS, WILL
YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO LOST THEIR
HOMES, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE
PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE BEEN INJURED
IN THE COLLAPSE.
SO YOU HAVE DIFFERENT COMPETING
GROUPS OF PEOPLE COMING EVER A
FIXED POT OF MONEY, IF YOU WILL.
>> LET ME ASK YOU AN ATTORNEY
QUESTION, SAKE US INTO-- TAKE US
INTO THE MIND OF SOME ATTORNEYS
WHO ARE OPERATING RIGHT NOW BY
FILING LAWSUITS, FRANKLY THEIR
PUBLIC RELATIONS COMPANIES ARE
SENDING US PRESS RELEASES ON THE
LAWSUITS THAT THESE ATTORNEYS
ARE FILING AS CLASS ACTION ON
BEHALF OF THE CHAMPLAIN TOWERS
RESIDENTS.
AND ALL THE WILE WE’RE REPORTING
FROM THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING
THERE ON THE SCENE THAT THEY ARE
IN FULL ON RECOVERY, FOCUSED ON
THE HUMAN TOLL AT THE MOMENT,
NOT EVEN THINKING ABOUT FIXING
TO START TALKING PUBLICLY ABOUT
WHAT MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED THERE.
WHY ARE ATTORNEYS FILING
LAWSUITS AND WITH WHAT EVIDENCE?
LET’S JUST SAY THERE SAY REASON
THAT SOMETIMES PERSONAL INJURY
LAWYERS HAVE A LOWER TRUST
RATING THAN.
>> I DIDN’T MEAN THAT, DIDN’T
MEAN A SLAM ON ANY SHALL
IT-- JUST FOR THE RECORD, REALLY
WONDERING, WHAT IS THE BASIS FOR
A LAWSUIT TO BE FILED NOW?
>> WELL, I HAVE HEARD OF ONE
LAWSUIT FILED IN ORDER TO
PROTECT THE DOCUMENTS.
I’M SURE GIVEN THE LEVEL OF
FEDERAL, STATE, COUNTY AND CITY
INVESTIGATION, OVERSITE OF THIS
TRAGEDY RIGHT NOW, NO ONE IS
DESTROYING DOCUMENTS.
AND I JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND WITH
THE-- I THINK THE FOCUS NEEDS TO
BE ON THE RECOVERY EFFORTS,
LIKING SHALL IT-- LETTING THE
ENGINEERS FIGURE OUT WHAT IS
GOING ON WITH THE BUILDING, WHY
IT HAPPENED, WHICH WILL TAKE
TIME, AND THE GRIEVING FAMILIES
AND NOT ON FILING LAWSUITS,
THERE IS NO STATUTE OF
LIMITATIONS BETWEEN NOW AND NEXT
YEAR THAT LAWYERS HAVE TO JUMP
IN AND FILE LAWSUITS.
I THINK IT IS INAPPROPRIATE, SAD
AND QUITE FRANKLY I’M
DISAPPOINTED IN MY COLLEAGUES.
>> DAVID HABBER, WE APPRECIATE
YOUR-- HABER WE APPRECIATE YOUR
STANDARDS AND EXPERTISE, THANK