Amy: So we are here with James Urie our senior
account executive here at Close, and we are
chatting today about sales models and methodologies
methods, models, whatever you want to call them.
There's lots.
Yeah.
There's like so many.
I recently
James: discovered that there's wrote all these down,
Amy: that's what I was wondering and it's interesting
as well, how many of them are like so similar?
But they're all different and unique in their own ways.
Just to kick us off here, what are some of the
sales models or methodologies that you've learned
in the past maybe before you started here at Close?
And was there anything that you found particularly valuable?
James: I completely agree with you.
A lot of them have similarities and I'll talk
about why here in a minute, but there's a number
of them and, you can trace these processes back to.
Who came up with them and why?
Of course if you go back to some of the literature, some
of the books that they wrote, you can see why they came
up with these, but inherently, they all are similar.
However, I have used at my first sales job,
they were big on being a Challenger Sales
person which is, one of the most popular.
And I agree that I do align with the
elements of being a challenger salesperson.
And what a Challenger Sales person is,
they teach, tailor, and take control as the
premise of what a Challenger Sales person is.
And I.
I a hundred percent believe in teaching
and tailoring, that is extremely important.
Now taking control.
That's subjective of what that actually means.
My thought on that, what that would mean and
how I align with it is I'm going to take control
of being an expert on what the person needs so
that I can make strong recommendations for them.
So I think of that as taking control, I'm never going
to take them take the control away from them as like you
absolutely need this when you don't actually need it, right?
It's always going to be, I think you do need this
because you've expressed that this is a problem.
This is how we can solve that problem.
I strongly think that this is going
to make an impact on your business.
And so that's how I think of taking
control and challenge yourselves.
So I do align with elements of
being a challenger salesperson.
I'm implement that on a pretty day
to day basis, and it's also natural.
Who I am as a salesperson it's teaching, it's
tailoring, it's making strong recommendations.
It's also built on, building really strong
relationships by being able to take that control.
Now, SNAP Selling is another one that I can align with.
The premise there is to keep things simple and
to keep the main problem top of mind, right?
We don't want to, over-complicate things,
people that you're typically selling to and the
folks that are making decisions, they're busy.
Taking on a new project is not something that they
necessarily want to do, but they know they need to do it.
So making it as simple as possible, here's a problem.
Here's what we need to solve.
Here's how we're going to solve it.
Don't dilute it with anything else.
I deeply align with that.
Not only in sales, but in life in general,
like really just keep it very simple, keep
the most important things top of mind.
And so the hybrid of those two are definitely, how I sell.
Now, you can go out and dive into all of these sales models.
There are a number of them.
There's like, I think it's like 15 that are
sort of like the most popular, but you're
gonna see elements overlapping and all of them.
And the overarching sort of pattern in all
of these is, what problem are you solving?
You're have a product, you have
a service, that solves a problem.
So what are you solving and how can I help
you solve that problem with our product?
Right.
You got to figure out the problem.
You got to figure out the pain.
You'll find that in elements of
every single one of these processes.
And then beyond that, if you can solve their
problem, who needs to chime in on this decision?
Who needs to give their input so that ultimately
the person who can sign off and give the money?
So that gives the green light based on everybody's feedback.
Those are the two things that you really need to solve
for in any sales process, whether it's outbound, whether
it's inbound, you got to figure out those two things.
Now, I think that you become very effective
as a sales person when you, of course figure
those things out, but then you introduce your
own skill, your own style into the process.
Some enterprise models when they're scaling, they might
find one process that really aligns and they teach and
train that and they replicate that because it works fine.
I can't argue with that, but I do think it is
good to give your sales person the freedom to
sell in the format that makes sense to them.
Now, in any of these processes, I think that
where the sales person becomes effective is,
1: building really powerful relationships, right?
I mean rapport.
Yes.
It's cliche.
We've talked about a number of times, but it is
so important to build powerful relationships.
You need to be able to pull someone's
guard down so that they will talk to you.
Genuinely authentically and candidly, right?
You need to get information from them, but you also need
to be genuinely out to help them solve their problem.
That is the most powerful skill or tool that a
sales person has: pull down the buyers guard and
build a powerful relationship, build some rapport.
So you get them speaking honestly.
And so that you have a direct line of
communication on what's your problem.
Can I solve it?
If the answer is yes.
Great.
This is how we'll solve it.
If you can't solve their problem again, tell them no,
we've gone over this a couple of times, but tell them
no, if you can't solve the problem and then figure
out and understand the problem, if you can solve it,
understand it deeply, understand it thoroughly, and then
communicate in simple terms, how you're going to solve it.
On top of that, it's following up, right?
People get busy.
Not everybody closes the deal
that day, that week, that month.
Maybe not even in six months, so it's
important to follow up and follow through.
It's okay if they're not ready to buy today.
It's okay if they're not ready to buy
this month, you need to follow up.
I've had deals where I've closed, where I followed up for
an entire 12 months, just because we were clear about that.
Just put a note every month followed up, followed
up, followed up, and it's just a quick blurb.
Like, are you ready to do this?
Just reminding them of our conversation, not in
a long email, just a very short brief, Hey, we
chatted about this and seven months has gone by now.
Are you ready to do this?
Follow up.
Amy: Yeah, that makes sense.
And I love, because following up is
definitely one of Steli's main things.
He's I feel like sort of the master of following up.
So that kind of brings us to the next question
then that I had, about when you joined Close.
Looking back at that time, what did you
learn about the sales model or process that
the sales team was using here at Close?
And what was your perception of that?
James: It was very freeing, to be honest, it was:
Can I help you?
Can you help me?
Follow up and follow through.
It's pretty simple.
You'll watch Steli's talks and he'll talk
about that all day long and it's true.
Can I help you solve a problem?
Can you help me?
Do you have money?
Can you refer more business to me?
And after that, it's following up and following through.
Doing things that you told people you
were going to do in the sales process.
Or following up because the timeline is not aligning.
So in that sense, those three fundamental things of sales.
And when I came to Close, when I was really
the only sales person, Nick sort of dropped
me into the bucket and said, good luck.
And that's what I did.
I went out in this really huge inbound
funnel, and I figured that out.
I figured out who I could help, who I couldn't help.
I figured out how to say no.
I figured out how to make other recommendations
if it was a no, I figured out how, if it was a
yes and I could help them, how I would help them.
And I always followed through using resources
on my team, my support team, my success team.
I figured out how to follow through
on solving a specific problem.
And again, timeline didn't align, I followed up.
Amy: Was there anything inside of Steli's sales
approach or his videos or anything that you
learned along the way that really stood out to you?
Like, wow, I didn't think about that.
Or this is something new that I didn't
try before, but it really works?
Anything that kind of sticks out in your brain?
James: Yeah, I think it's the idea
of when he says, "Can I help you?"
That's obvious.
But "Can you help me?"
Is something that I hadn't thought a lot about.
Right.
As a sales person, you're like, can I help you?
Can I win your business?
Can I, earn you as a customer?
But it was, can you help me too?
And I, that was something that was new to me.
It didn't totally click for me out of the gate.
And then I started to realize that as I had that freedom in
the sales process, it's okay to ask if they have a budget.
It's okay to ask if they can buy it.
It's okay to ask if they have friends that
they can refer because they were a good fit
and they might have a network of people.
And so that took some practice and understanding.
It seems simple in concept, but not a lot of sales
organizations preach that, "Can you help me?"
And so I think as a sales person, it's smart to understand
if you can help somebody, how can they help you?
And, but figuring out the prior first, can you help them?
And then asking for that later, that was a very new
concept that took some time to learn and practice.
And now it's just a part of my nature as
a sales person to, to figure that out.
Amy: Yeah, I love that.
And how did you go about learning this, like,
were you trained in this by Nick or Steli
or did you just kind of figure it out?
James: I was aware that those were like the fundamental
sales methodologies, and it was really trial by fire though,
just implementing them and figuring that out, going into
the system and realizing what Close was really good at.
What it wasn't and who's going to be in alignment
with what we can do really, really well.
And so it was a matter of, I understood this is how
we sell here's the freedom to do it, go out and do it.
And then after that, I just figured it out.
And those fundamentals are pretty natural.
I felt this new sense of freedom to spread my wings and go
out and use my natural skills based on those fundamentals.
You're not in an organization where they're
trying to, make it work, figure it out.
We got to meet our bottom line.
We got to meet our numbers.
You gotta be able to hit quota, regardless
if they're, somewhat of a good fit, figure
it out, pull them across the finish line.
No that's not what we do here at Close.
Amy: That's so interesting.
So would you say that sales organizations could
fall into the trap of just choosing one sales model
and forcing all of the reps to use that same model.
Do you think that is a negative
thing maybe for a sales team?
James: It's subjective.
It's really hard to say, because in a really
big organization, you can't just give your
salespeople the freedom, do whatever they want.
Like here you go, jump in and figure it out.
Like it just doesn't work.
You do have to have structure.
You do have to have alignment with what you're trying to do.
So I think there's absolutely a time and a
place where this is our sales philosophy.
This is how we implement it.
This is how we train it.
This is what you need to do.
We've proven that this is effective and, once your rep
is seniored and they've got to figure it out, then maybe
give them a little bit more freedom and flexibility.
But I think as you're ramping people and you have this
really big company where you're constantly hiring, or you
have a lot of turnover, You have to have some structure.
So there's absolutely a time and a place.
I think that when you're a smaller organization, you're
a startup and you're just hiring your first sales reps.
I think hiring really high quality human beings are
really high quality salespeople and letting them figure
it out and figure out what works within your funnel.
I think that's totally okay.
And I think that you're going
to have a lot of success there.
And then if you find this model that really works, then
you know, maybe you do implement it and you do train on it.
So there's a time and a place for getting everybody
the freedom to be a cowboy salesperson or giving them
a very structured step-by-step here's how we sell.
And this is what works.
Amy: That makes sense.
So then taking it down into the core group of
people that you're talking to day in, day out with
your work, bringing it down to our SaaS founders
and our startup founders that are watching this.
As we said in the beginning of this video, there are
so many different sales models, methodologies, books,
courses, that tell you, this is how you must do sales.
How would you recommend to a SaaS founder,
someone who's new to this whole sales game?
How would you recommend deciding on
a sales approach that works for them?
Like, should it be inbound, outbound, consultative,
SPIN, NEAT, whatever other acronym you can think
of, how do they find the right one for them?
James: So inbound is going to be harder,
expensive initially, or take time.
So naturally most founders are going to have to do
outbound sales and that's just the nature of it.
What I think.
And I wouldn't so much say, "How do I do sales?
What's a sales philosophy that I align with?"
I don't think that's the first place that you should
start with and be like, "Oh, I align with number seven.
That one looks great.
That's exactly who I am."
I think the first question you need to
start with is, "Why did I go out on my own
to be an entrepreneur, to start a company?
What problem am I solving, right?"
You set out to solve a problem and, if you took that
life risk to start a company, you should be pretty
passionate about the problem that you're solving.
And so you need to go out and figure out who did I solve
this problem for and how can I communicate to them,
how I actually have the ability to solve your problem.
I believe that you might have
this problem and I can solve it.
And so at that point, you need to be able to communicate
how you solve that problem in an effective way.
But also make sure that the passion is embedded
in your messaging and your outbound efforts.
So it's, "I've solved a problem.
Who can I solve it for now?
I need to go out and find those folks
that I can solve the problem for."
I think that is first and foremost and making
sure that that life risk that you took and the
passion that you have for solving that problem.
Is quite apparent in your messaging to those people.
That is the first thing you need to do.
You don't need to go and find some
sales process that you align with.
Once you are communicating the problem that you're
solving, the rest is going to come pretty naturally.
And now once folks are engaged, the important thing is,
again, going back to, "Can I solve this problem for you?
Yes.
How can you help me?
If I can help you?"
And follow up.
As a founder, leads are extremely valuable.
If you have five leads in your pipeline
that are engaged, those are golden.
Never stopped following up, but do that with grace, right?
You don't want to ping them every
day and say, "Ready to buy yet?"
You ready to buy yet?
You've got to do it with grace.
You've got to do it in a way that's
not annoying, but "Hey, I'm still here.
Let's continue the conversation.
I know I can solve this problem," or, making
sure that you've set a flag in the sand, "Let's
talk in six months so we can solve this problem."
So following up, following through, can I help you?
Can you help me?
What problem am I solving?
For a founder.
And then once you get more robust and you are
hiring salespeople, then perhaps take a look
at those sales philosophies and figure out
if there is one that you deeply align with.
Amy: That makes so much sense.
Being passionate about the problem that you're solving.
Because it's true.
In most cases, then that startup founder knows
their audience pretty well, because probably they're
solving a problem that they themselves have had.
James: Exactly.
They do.
They know their persona extremely well.
They know exactly who they solved that problem for.
I talked to a couple of gals yesterday,
and they were tech founders and they were
like, "We have no experience in sales.
We really don't know what to do."
And that's exactly what I told them.
I said, "You two started a business to solve a problem.
Who are you solving it for?"
And they were able to identify the exact persona.
This is exactly who we're solving it for.
And I was thinking about a sales strategy
that included Loom, but their persona, well,
they were not going to know what loom was.
They were not going to click a link.
It was only going to be straightforward, direct messaging.
We're talking about folks on the older scale who
have a different business mind who are solving
a more specific problem that is in finance.
Those folks are not going to be clicking a Loom link.
And so we pivoted and adjusted our strategy
on that call based on who their persona was.
So yes, every founder has a good idea of who they've
solved that problem for and how to message to them.
Communicate with those folks that you've
solved the problem for in a way that you
know, that they're going to comprehend.
Whether that is a brief email, whether that's a
Loom video, whatever that is a card in the mail,
I don't know who your persona is, but there are
different channels and strategies of communication
that you need to be aware of for your persona.
Do that.
Don't overthink it.
Don't over-complicate it.
You know what to do.
You're a founder.
You started this company.
Amy: I love that.
And it's actually a specific advantage that founders have.
That's an advantage that they have over some big
sales organizations that maybe the sales reps
themselves don't have that kind of experience
with the actual audience that they're selling to.
The founder has that advantage.
They know who they're talking to.
James: They believe in it.
No matter if you're a tech founder or a sales founder, you
should be the best sales person in your company because
you know that problem the best, you know the solution
the best, you know how to communicate why you solve it.
Amy: Awesome.
That makes so much sense.
Any other advice for sales models, methodologies
for our SaaS founders or startup founders here?
James: Yeah.
I would say do your research on them, check them out.
Like they exist for a reason.
If you're a person who wants that structure and
you want to create that documentation around your
sales philosophies and the one you align with.
Definitely take a look.
A lot of the books that I've read based
on those sales methodologies are great.
They're extremely beneficial.
I take bits of value from each of them.
So do research them, figure it out one that
you align with and see if it really hits home.
And if it doesn't, stick with the
core fundamentals of what sales is..
Amy: I like that because it's not just saying, okay, this
particular, whatever model is the one that you must do.
Because I feel like a lot of these sales gurus
will be like, you must do to Challenger, or you
must do SPIN, or you must do Solution Selling,
like whatever their preferred sales model is.
But you can't pick one and say, this is right for everyone.
James: Agreed.
Yeah.
There's a time and place for all
of those different processes.
I get the value in every single one.
I understand why people would
align with one and implement it.
It scales.
It really does.
But I'm a firm believer in sticking
in the core fundamentals of sales.
And I'm a firm believer in hiring really high
quality salespeople that have a very high level of
emotional intelligence that know how to communicate
with people, pull their guard down, and they
know how to listen and understand the problem.
And they know how to communicate in
simple terms, how to solve that problem.
So I'm a huge believer in hiring high quality
salespeople versus aligning with the sales process.
That being said, I've never worked in a company
where we have a sales team of 250 sales reps, and
we've got to figure out a process that scales.
So I understand why some folks point to one and implement.
Amy: Yeah, that makes sense.
Cool.
Thanks.