>>> TOMORROW THE LBJ
PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY IN AUSTIN
ALONG WITH THE MILLER CENTER OF
PUBLIC AFFAIRS WILL LAUNCH A NEW
WEBSITE FEATURING OVER 100 PHONE
CONVERSATIONS FROM THE JOHNSON
PRESIDENCY.
THE NEW SITE LBJTAPES.ORG MARKS
THE 50th ANNIVERSARY OF THE LBJ
PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY.
MANY OF THE CONVERSATIONS ARE
STILL SO RELEVANT TO THE ISSUES
WE FACE TODAY.
IN ONE RECORDING FROM JANUARY
65, NOW THIS IS HARD TO HEAR
BUT WEVE HIGHLIGHTED THE WORDS.
PRESIDENT JOHNSON SPOKE TO THE
REVEREND DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING,
JR. ABOUT VOTING RIGHTS. #
##
BACK WITH US TONIGHT THE
CELEBRATED AUTHOR HISTORIAN
MICHAEL BESCHLOSS.
BUT EVEN MORE RELEVANT TO OUR
DISCUSSION TONIGHT, TWO MORE OF
HIS SEMINAL BOOKS, TAKING
CHARGE, THE WHITE HOUSE JOHNSON
TAPES 1963 TO 64.
AND WEVE ALWAYS RECOMMENDED
PEOPLE BUY THESE BOOKS.
THE AUDIO VERSION SO YOU CAN
HEAR MICHAELS CURATED NARRATION
AND HEAR THE ACTUAL JONNSON
TAPES THAT GO WITH THEM.
IF YOULL FORGIVE A FURTHER
PERSONAL NOTE.
MICHAEL AND I BOTH LEARNED AS
ADULTS THAT WE HAD EACH WRITTEN
LETTERS TO PRESIDENT JOHNSON AS
VERY PRECOCIOUS YOUNG KIDS DID
IN THE EARLY 60s.
AND BECAUSE THAT INTEREST NEVER
WANED WE HAVE BOTH OF US LISTED
TO THE HUNDREDS OF HOURS OF ALL
OF HIS EXISTING RECORDED PHONE
CONVERSATIONS.
AND MICHAEL, LETS START THERE.
THE COURAGEOUS DECISION TO MAKE
THESE PUBLIC.
AS YOU SAY IN YOUR BOOK IT WAS
DONE BY THE HARRY MIDDLETON WHO
WAS HEAD OF THE LIBRARY.
PROBABLY WOULD HAVE EMBARRASSED
JOHNSON A LITTLE BIT GIVEN THE
CONTENT OF SOME OF THEM.
BUT AS YOU POINT OUT THE BIGGEST
PROBLEM WOULD HAVE BEEN THAT HE
WAS FORGOTTEN BY HISTORY.
>> THATS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
AND, YOU KNOW, YOU AND I HAVE
TALKED ABOUT THIS SO MANY TIMES,
THE FACT THAT JOHNSON WOULD BE
HORRIFIED, FOR INSTANCE, TO HEAR
OF THE TAPE WHERE HES CALLING
UP THE HEAD OF THE COMPANY AND
TELLING HIM, GIVING HIM
EXTREMELY PRECISE INSTRUCTIONS
ON HOW TO MAKE SOME CUSTOM MADE
SLACKS SO THAT JOHNSON WILL FEEL
MORE COMFORTABLE.
JONNSON WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT
WASNT PRESIDENTIAL.
BUT YOU LISTEN TO THESE TAPES
YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE GUY WAS
LIKE.
FOR INSTANCE YOU HAVE SAID YOUD
HEAR GUN SMOKE IN THE
BACKGROUND, JOHNSON BELCHING,
ALL SORTS OF OTHER THINGS AND
TAKES UINTO
TAKES YOU INTO THE ROOM NOTHING
ELSE COULD.
AS YOU AND I WERE TALKING AS YOU
AND I MIGHT HAVE IN THE 1990s AT
THE RECOMMENDATION OF LIDDY BIRD
JOHNSON, WE WOULD HAVE SAID,
GEE, WOULDNT IT BE AMAZING TO
LISTEN TO HOW TO GETTING A CIVIL
RIGHTS BILL AND VOTING RIGHTS
BILL, HOW IT REALLY HAPPENED
RATHER THAN HOW IT APPEARED IN
PUBLIC?
THANKS TO THESE TAPES WEVE GOT
THAT KIND OF STUFF.
AND AFTER RICHARD NIXON NO
PRESIDENT EVER KEPT THESE KIND
OF TAPES AGAIN.
>> AND FAST FORWARD TO TODAY TO
THE DEMOCRATIC COALITION IN THE
SOUTH THAT FLIPPED CONTROL OF
THE SENATE BEFORE OUR VERY EYES.
THE TAPES ALSO CONTAIN TO COIN A
PHRASE, SCENES FROM A MARRIAGE.
IM GOING TO PLAY ONE WHERE
JOHNSON IS ON THE PHONE WITH HIS
WIFE, FIRST LADY, LADY BIRD
JOHNSON, FOLLOWING A TELEVISION
APPEARANCE BY THE PRESIDENT.
>> I THOUGHT THAT YOU LOOKED
STRONG, FIRM AND LIKE A RELIABLE
GUY.
YOUR LOOKS WERE SPLEN DID.
THE CLOSE UPS WERE MUCH BETTER
THAN THE DISTANCE ONES.
>> WELL, YOU CANT THEM TO DO
IT --
>> WELL I WOULD SAY THIS THERE
WERE MORE CLOSE UPS THAN THERE
WERE DISTANCE ONES.
DURING THE STATEMENT YOU WERE A
LITTLE BREATHLESS, AND THERE WAS
TOO MUCH LOOKING DOWN.
AND I THINK IT WAS A LITTLE TOO
FAST.
>> SOMETIMES YOU GET A LOT OF
DETAIL IN THESE, MICHAEL.
AND SOMETIMES AS WE SAY IT IS A
GLIMPSE INSIDE THIS MARRIAGE.
>> YEAH.
AND YOU KNOW, HOW OFTEN DO YOU
GET TO UNDERSTAND THE
PRESIDENTS MARRIAGE YEARS LATER
OR HIS RELIGIOUS VIEWS, TWO OF
THE TOUGHEST THINGS TO FIND OUT
ABOUT ANY HUMAN BEING FROM THE
OUTSIDE.
AND THE OTHER THING AS YOU
LISTEN TO THESE TAPES, JOHNSON
HAD HUGE EMOTIONAL COMPLEXITIES.
I DONT HAVE THE STANDING TO SAY
HE WAS BIPOLAR, BUT YOU HEAR HIM
ON THESE TAPES.
HE GETS TOO EXCITED WHEN THINGS
GO BADLY.
HE GETS TOO DEPRESSED WHEN
THINGS MAKE HIM SAD.
AND THE ONE PERSON WHICH COULD
PULL HIM OUT OF THESE
DEPRESSIONS WHICH IS REALLY
CLIMBING INTO BED AND PULLING
THE BLANKET OVER HIS HEAD AND
CALMING HIM DOWN WHEN HE GOT TOO
EXCITED WAS LADY BIRD JOHNSON.
I THINK ONE DAY WE SHOULD BUILD
A STATUE OF HER AND SAY LINDEN
JOHNSON WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO
FUNCTION WITHOUT LADY BIRD
JOHNSON, HIS WIFE.
>> MICHAEL, FINAL QUESTION.
HOW IS IT THAT WE GET TO HEAR
THIS?
I KNOW NIXON INHERITED TO HIS
GREAT LOSS ULTIMATELY TO TAPING
SYSTEM FROM JOHNSON, BUT HAS IT
LIVED ON?
TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE
HAVE MODERN ERA PRESIDENTS DONE
THE SAME THING WERE GOING TO
FIND OUT ABOUT 50 YEARS FROM
NOW?
>> NO, I DONT THINK SO BECAUSE
WHEN NIXONS TAPES WERE REVEALED
IN THE SUMMER OF 1973 THE PUBLIC
REACTION WAS SO NEGATIVE.
HOW COULD NIXON HAVE TAPED
PEOPLE WITHOUT THEIR KNOWLEDGE
THAT LATER PRESIDENTS WERE
ALMOST HONOR-BOUND TO MAKE IT
CLEAR THAT THEY DONT MAKE
SECRET TAPES OF PEOPLE WHO CALL
THEM OR COME TO VISIT THEM.
WHEN THESE JOHNSON TAPES CAME
OUT IN THE MID-90s I WAS
SITTING WITH BILL CLINTON WHO
WAS PRESIDENT AT THE TIME AND I
SAID I ASSUME YOU DONT KEEP
TAPES LIKE THAT YOURSELF, AND HE
LOOKED AT ME AND HE SAID ARE YOU
KIDDING?
ANY PRESIDENT WHO DID THAT
NOWADAYS WOULD BE CRITICIZED,
BUT THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE
TREASURE-TROVE.
AND THE TAPES NOT ONLY OF LBJ
BUT JFK AND RICHARD NIXON, THAT
PERIOD ONE OF THE MOST