geoff: For more on the question
of whether Donald Trump should
be barred from the 2024 ballot,
as well as some reflections on
the past year in politics, we
turn to brooks and Capehart.
That's "New York Times"
columnist David brooks and
Jonathan Capehart, associate
editor for "The Washington
post."
Good to see you both.
Maine has joined Colorado as the
second state to ban Donald Trump
from its presidential primary
ballot under a constitutional
provision that prevents
insurrectionists from holding
office.
David, what is your assessment
of this?
David: I thought Colorado was
pretty terrible and I think this
is a worse threat to democracy,
some random politician throwing
the Republican front runner off
the ballot for crimes he is not
even convicted of or charged
with.
The process should always be
voters decide.
Doubly when we have the entire
democratic system under crisis
and people think the game is
rigged.
Throwing people off the ballot,
they will think the game really
is rigged.
Then if you have one Democrat
throwing a candidate off the
ballot in Maine, you think
Republicans won't throw people
off the ballot somewhere else?
I thought it was a terrible
decision.
One that confirms every story
Donald Trump tells, which is
those liberal elites are out to
get you.
Somebody as -- somebody is out
to silence your voice.
Geoff: Jonathan, is this
election interference of a
different sort?
Jonathan: [Laughs]
I don't buy it, the idea that
this is a cabal of liberal
elites attacking Marcus Lee
going off Donald Trump is
ridiculous.
These challenges are being
brought by Republicans, there
are Republicans trying to keep
Donald Trump off the primary
ballot.
That's the case in Colorado and
those same people are involved
in other cases.
The main secretary of state is
not a random official, this is
someone who did not just make up
this decision out of whole
cloth.
She had a hearing a week ago,
hour-long hearing -- eight
hour-long hearing.
The key thing is this case is
going to go before the supreme
court.
The one thing the supreme court
does not like is dissidents
within the country.
Colorado and Maine saying he has
to be off the ballot, you have
Michigan and I believe
California saying trump is on
the ballot.
You cannot have a hodgepodge of
decisions around the country
involving something this major.
The supreme court is going to
have to decide this case.
As the Minnesota secretary of
state said to me last weekend,
the supreme court deciding
unanimously either all states
have to to have him on the
ballot or all states have to
have him off the ballot but
there will not be a split
decision.
Geoff: How do you think the
court might weigh this?
David: I would be shocked if the
supreme court took Donald
Trump's name of the ballot
anywhere.
It already has its own
credibility problems, it doesn't
want to be seen to be telling
citizens you can't vote for that
guy.
Geoff: How much weight do you
give that question, why can one
person in this case, in Maine,
make a decision for voters?
Jonathan: It's a matter of state
law.
The rules and all of these
states, these hodgepodge
decisions are because elections
are run by the states and they
have their own laws.
In Maine, the secretary of state
makes a determination and then
it goes to the courts.
This is not the end in Maine,
it's the beginning.
Geoff: As this decision came
down yesterday from Maine, Nikki
Haley was in New Hampshire,
Donald Trump's rival, trying to
clean up a response you gave
when she was asked at a town
hall in New Hampshire about what
was the cause of the civil war.
She did not name slavery in her
response.
After much backlash, she later
said of course it had to do with
slavery.
What did you make of her initial
comment and attempt to clean it
up?
David: Republican presidential
candidates should not be
disagreeing with Lincoln's
second inaugural.
Lincoln knew this was a war
about slavery.
America was split over slavery
in the war happened, and I think
Ron Desantis is lying that
ending slavery was one of the
Republican party's greatest
commish and sever.
What was disturbing is that the
response had the aroma of
somebody playing political games
from South Carolina.
You're coming from a place where
people want to say was about
random civil-rights or whatever,
and she had that voice in her
head and she thought the
politically calculated thing to
do was to give the answer she
gave rather than the honest
truth.
It was a bad moment for her.
Geoff: Did her remarks suggest
that the audience would agree
with her?
Jonathan: I agree with David and
the only thing I would say is
it's not an aroma, it is a
stench.
She is the former governor of
the first state to secede from
the union, led to the civil war
over slavery, a state that had a
proclamation in 1860 that said
flat out, non-enslaving states
are trying to make us give up
slavery.
For her to do what she did,
especially after what she did,
after the massacre in Charleston
at mother Emanuel, probably her
biggest moment on the national
stage and certainly as governor
of South Carolina, stepping up
and being a leader and taking
down the confederate flag for
her to backtrack like this -- I
shouldn't be surprised, because
she has backtracked on a lot of
statements of principle,
especially when she got in
league with Donald Trump.
Geoff: Chris Christie agrees.
Here's what he told new
Hampshire voters earlier this
week.
Mr. Christie: She didn't say
what she said last night and
today about this because she's
dumb.
She's not, she's smart and she
knows better and she didn't say
it because she's a racist
because she's not, I know her
well.
And I don't believe Nikki has a
racist bone in her body.
But for purpose of this race,
the reason she did it is just as
bad if not worse.
And she got everybody concerned
about her candidacy.
She did it because she's
unwilling to offend anyone by
telling the truth.
Geoff: What about that?
He is saying she equivocated and
pulls her punches for political
gain.
How damaging will some thing
like that the to her standing in
New Hampshire?
David: First, a lesson to our
viewers to major in history.
[Laughter]
We are still living with the
civil war's legacy.
I don't think it will end up
hurting her, I think the people
who are voting for her new
Hampshire are anti-Trump in they
might have a moment of pause.
She got a lot of big bucks from
rich people.
Compared to Donald Trump,
stupid, insensitive, terrible
comments will not be a deterrent
because he produces those by the
minute.
Geoff: I want to get your
reflections on the edge
political threads and themes of
the year.
Jonathan.
Jonathan: We first.
[Laughter]
We have been through it in 2023
and they will only get more
bumpy in 2024.
We have two huge constitutional
questions before the supreme
court, ballot access and
presidential immunity.
We've never been in a situation
where the supreme court has had
to even entertain these
questions.
The ramifications of that for
the 2024 election means, we say
this every four years, it's the
most important election of our
lifetime.
But 2024 could be the most
important election because it
could be the last small D
democratic election the country
has.
That's the one thing that gives
me pause.
David: We emphasized all your
how terrible the political
system is right now, and as
Jonathan said, it will probably
be worse.
To me, our national situation
has been solved by the economy,
a lot of good things happening
underneath politics.
Economic growth is phenomenal,
inflation is down, and coming --
income inequality is down.
Real wages are up.
It was not predicted we would
reduce inflation without sliding
into recession and we seem to be
doing it.
If we had fallen into 7% or 10%
unemployment, can you imagine
where the country would be?
Pay attention maybe, fed.
[Laughter]
America is non-decline, our
economy is outpacing Europe,
Japan, China.
There are underlying would in
America, we are all wounded by
how Donald Trump wants us to
feel everyday but there is a lot
of good, including crime rates.
Geoff: We will end on that
hopeful note.
Thanks for an incredible year
and we will see you next year.
[Laughter]
Take care.
♪♪