>> WHEN I HEAR SUSPICIOUS CONNECTIONS TO THE
UKRAINIAN-AMERICAN MAFIA.
UKRAINIAN-AMERICAN MAFIA. I KNOW I NEED A ALL-STAR SQUAD
TO BREAK THIS DOWN.
HERE TO DISCUSS THIS EVEN
DEEPER, PHIL RUCKER.
BRIAN CLASS, PROFESSOR OF
POLITICS AT UNIVERSITY OF
LONDON, HOST OF "POWER
CORRUPTS."
CORRUPTS." MATT MILLER, FORMER CHIEF SPOKES
PERSON FOR THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT.
DEPARTMENT. BILL COURTNEY WHO WAS PRESIDENT
CLINTON’S SPECIAL ASSISTANT FOR
RUSSIA, UKRAINE, AND URASIA.
AND BARRETT BURGER.
YOU’RE GETTING A HOME COURT
ADVANTAGE BECAUSE YOUR HERE WITH
ME.
ME. IN ANY NORMAL TIME A REGULAR
PERSON LIKE ME WOULD SAY HOLY
COW.
COW.
It may cause severe diarrhea, GIULIANI’S DOCUMENTS SUBPOENAED,
WE HAVE SEEN SUBPOENAS COME
FLYING FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS AND
THE ADMINISTRATION HAS SAID BEAT
IT.
IT. IS THIS TIME ANY DIFFERENT?
THAT DEMOCRATS WILL GET ANYTHING
FROM RUDE I DIDN’T DOY GIULIANI.
>> WE CAN EXPECT A FIGHT HERE.
SO I THINK THAT THERE IS ONE
THING VERY DIFFERENT WITH
RESPECT TO THE GIULIANI
MATERIALS AND THAT IS WAIVER.
>> WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
>> AN ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVILEGE
THAT WOULD PROTECT YOUR
COMMUNICATIONS YOU HAVE TO SHOW
THEY WERE CONFIDENTIAL.
MUCH OF WHAT HE HAS BEEN DOING
NOW HAS BEEN PLAYED OUT IN
PUBLIC.
PUBLIC. HE HAS BEEN VERY OPEN ABOUT THE
NATURE OF THE COMMUNICATIONS.
IT COULD BE A SIGNIFICANT THING
THAT TAKES THESE OUT OF THE
PROTECTED CATEGORY.
PROTECTED CATEGORY. >> WHAT DOES ATTORNEY-CLIENT
COVERAGE NEWS.
COVERAGE NEWS. IS THE PRESIDENT A CLIENT OF
RUDY GIULIANI?
RUDY GIULIANI? IS THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
PAYING RUDY GIULIANI?
ALL THAT WE’RE TALKING ABOUT IS
NOT PRE2016 2016.
>> THAT IS A PERFECT QUESTION
FOP HAVE A PRIVILEGE ATTACHED
THEY WOULD HAVE TO SHOW THAT THE
PRESIDENT WAS ACTUALLY JEWEL
GIULIANI’S CLIENT.
GIULIANI’S CLIENT. IT CAN’T BE JUST TRUMP ENGAGING
HIM TO GO OUT AND SERVE AS A
GOVERNMENT EMISSARY.
GOVERNMENT EMISSARY. IT IS A PRETTY NARROW PRIVILEGE.
I’M NOT SURE IT WILL PROTECT
MUCH OF THE COMMUNICATION
BETWEEN TRUMP AND GIULIANI.
>> WHAT SHOULD WE MAKE OF THE
FACT THAT SECRETARY OF STATE
POMPEYPOM
POMPEYPOM POMPEO THAT WE LEARNED.
YOU HAVE BEEN PART OF SEVERAL
ADMINISTRATIONS.
ADMINISTRATIONS. WOULD IT BE NORMAL FOR THE
SECRETARY OF STATE TO BE ON THIS
KIND OF CALL?
>> YES, IT IS NORMAL.
DIRECTION I WAS IN THE OVAL
OFFICE WITH SECRETARY CLINTON.
SO THAT IS QUITE NORMAL.
WHAT IS NOT NORMAL IS THAT THE
ADMINISTRATION HAS NOT REVEALED
SECRETARY POMPEO’S PLAN TO
LISTEN UNTIL NOW.
>> WOULD IT BE STRANGE IF MIKE
POMPEO SAID HE HAS NOT READ THE
REPORT YET.
REPORT YET. IF YOU’RE THE SECRETARY OF
STATE, THERE IS A WHISTLE-BLOWER
COMPLAINT ABOUT A PHONECALL THAT
YOU’RE ON, AMBASSADOR.
WOULD YOU NOT READ THAT STRAIGHT
AWAY.
AWAY. >> TYPICALLY A SECRETARY OF
STATE WOULD BE BRIEFED AND
DETAILED BY STAFF, PROBABLY READ
SUCH A DOCUMENT.
LET’S TURN TO BILL BAR.
AN OFFICIAL SAID THAT PRESIDENT
TRUMP’S OUTRAGE WAS A NORMAL
KIND OF THING THAT IS DONE WHEN
ANY HEAD OF STATE WANTS HELP.
THE FACT THAT BILL BARR THOUGH
WOULD BE REACHING OUT TO ANOTHER
COUNTRY, HOW IS THAT ANYTHING
THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE?
OR THE RULE OF LAW IN THE UNITED
STATES.
STATES. >> IT’S NOT UNUSUAL FOR AN
ATTORNEY GENERAL TO TALK TO LAW
ENFORCEMENT OR INTELLIGENCE
OFFICIALS OVERSEAS TO ASK FOR
HELP IN AN INVESTIGATION.
I SAT IN ON DOZENS OF MEETINGS
AND YOU WOULD USUALLY GO INTO
THAT WITH A LIST OF THINGS THAT
YOU WANT COOPERATIONS ON.
YOU START WITH THE FACT THAT THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL IS TAKING SUCH
A PERSONAL INTEREST IN TALKING
NOT JUST WITH ONE OFFICIAL, NOT
JUST WITH TWO OR THREE, BUT THAT
HE IS FLYING OVERSEES WITH THE
EXPRESS PURPOSE OF JUST TO
FOLLOW UP ON THIS INVESTIGATION.
YOU ADD TO THE FACT THAT HE
PRESSED THE PRESIDENT, HIMSELF,
TO TALK TO FOREIGN LEADERS AND
PRESSURE THEM TO COOPERATE.
THAT IS INYESTERDAYABLY UNUSUAL.
SO IF YOU ARE A FOREIGN LEADER
AND YOU GET THAT CALL, YOU
WONDER IS HE ASKING ON BEHALF OF
THE UNITED STATES?
AND IT MUST GIVE YOU PAUSE.
>> DO YOU WOUND R OR DO YOU
KNOW?
KNOW? >> WELL OF COURSE YOU KNOW, AND
THAT IS THE POINT, YOU FEEL
PRESSURED TO DO SOMETHING THAT
MAYBE IS NOT IN YOUR OWN
NATIONAL INTEREST.
NATIONAL INTEREST. YOU CAN’T JUST LAUNCH PREZ
INDICATIONS.
INDICATIONS. THEY WOULD USUALLY BE ABLE TO
HANDLE THAT.
HANDLE THAT. THEY ARE TRYING TO FIND ANY
WRONG DOING.
WRONG DOING. THE MERE FACT OF THE
INVESTIGATION ALLOWS THE
PRESIDENT TO CONTINUE TO SPIN
OUT THESE CONSPIRACY THEORIES
THAT THERE WAS A DEEP STATE
CONSPIRACY TO COME AFTER HIM.
AND THAT IS A DEEPLY TROUBLING
ACTION FOR THE DEPARTMENT TO
TAKE.
TAKE. DIDN’T WE KNOW THAT WOULD BE THE
PLAY BOOK.
PLAY BOOK. YOU HAVE TWO POLITIZICATIONS.
IT SHOULD NOT BE DONE IN TRUMP’S
INTEREST.
INTEREST. IT IS IN THE RULE OF LAW THAT IS
CLOSE.
CLOSE. RULE OF LAW AND JUST IS
IMPARTIAL, SO THAT BILL BARKT
PACTING IN THIS WAY.
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WILL TAKE
A VERY LONG TIME TO ROLL BACK.
ONCE PEEP BELIEVE THESE TWO
THINGS ARE BIBLICAL AND NOT OUT
FOR THE U.S. SERS INTEREST,
CHANGING THAT WILL TAKE MANY,
MANY YEARS UNFORTUNATELY.
>> IT SEEMS THEY HAVE HAD A
RETURN TO CAP, CONFUSE, ATTACK,
AND POINT THE FINGER.
THAT IS WHAT THE PRESIDENT AND
OTHERS DID AROUND THE MUELLER
REPORT, AND I WOULD SAY THEY
WERE HAPPY WITH HOW THAT HE
NEEDSED UP, IS THAT WHAT
HAPPENED AGAIN?
HAPPENED AGAIN? >> THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT,
THEY’RE RETURNING TO THIS
FAMILIAR PLAY BOOK TRYING TO
DISTRACT BY BRINGING UP THE
BIDEN’S AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY,
AND JUST TRYING TO RIDE OUT THIS
STORM, BUT THE PROBLEM THAT THE
WHITE HOUSE FACES RIGHT NOW IS
THAT THERE IS A SET OF FACTS
THAT ARE JUST DAMAGING FOR THE
PRESIDENT, NO OTHER WAY TO PUT
THAT, AND YOU’RE SEEING THE
PRESIDENT’S REPUBLICAN ALLIES
ARE GIVING THESE TALKING POINTS
THAT SORT OF LACK INTELLECTUAL
CONSISTENCY, AND KEVIN McCAR
THINK GOT A LOT OF CRITICISM FOR
THE INTERVIEW HE GAVE OVER THE
WEEKEND WHERE HE COULD NOT PUT
TOGETHER A FORCEFUL AND STRONG
AND BELIEVABLE DEFENSE OF THE
GOVERNMENT.
GOVERNMENT. AT I AT THE WHITE HOUSE THEY’RE
TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO
NAVIGATE ALL OF THIS.
THEY ARE COMING UP WITH A LOT OF
PLAYING AND A LOT OF THE TALKING
POINTS.
POINTS. >> LET’S GO TO WHAT THE
PRESIDENT SAID JUST YESTERDAY
ABOUT THE WHISTLE-BLOWER BLOWER,
THIS.
THIS. >> DO YOU NOW KNOW WHO THE
WHISTLE-BLOWER, SIR?
WHISTLE-BLOWER, SIR? >> YOU’RE TRYING TO FIND OUT WHO
THEY ARE, WHEN YOU HAVE A
WHISTLEBLOWER THAT REPORTS
THINGS THAT ARE INCORRECT.
THE STATEMENT THAT I MADE TO THE
PRESIDENT OF THE UKRAINE, A GOOD
MAN, A NICE MAN, WHO I KNEW, IT
WAS PERFECT, BUT THE
WHISTLEBLOWER REPORTED A
DIFFERENT STATEMENT.
DIFFERENT STATEMENT. >> WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF WHAT THE
PRESIDENT SAID AND WHAT DOES
THAT DO TO OTHER POTENTIAL
WHISTLE-BLOWER’S AND PEOPLE IN
THE ADD MIN -- ADMINISTRATION.
>> IF WE DO, WHY WOULD THE
PRESIDENT WHO IS SURROUNDED BY
LEGAL ADVISORS BE ABLE TO SAY
THE THINGS HE SAID IN THE LAST
48 HOURS.
48 HOURS. >> I THINK IT IS A REAL FAILING
ON THEIR PART FROM NOT
PROTECTING HIM FROM STEPPING
INTO THIS AREA WHERE NOT ONLY IS
THERE POTENTIAL RETALIATION
AGAINST A WHISTLE-BLOWER, BUT
WE’RE TREADING DANGEROUSLY CLOSE
TO THIS BECOMING A DETERRENT FOR
SOMEONE TO TESTIFY.
YOU HAVE A INDIVIDUAL WHO IN AN
ACT OF IMMENSE COURAGE CAME TO
SPEAK AGAINST THE PRESIDENT OF
THE UNITED STATES.
HIS TWEETS, HIS COMMENTS, HIS
SUGGESTIONS THAT WE SHOULD TWEET
THESE SPIES THE WAY WE USED TO
TREAT THEM IMPLIED SOME SORT OF
PHYSICAL VIOLENCE GO RIGHT UP TO
THAT LINE IF NOT CROSSING OVER
INTO WITNESS INTIMIDATION HERE.
I THINK SHEHE IS TREADING IN
DANGEROUS AREA.
DANGEROUS AREA. >> NO DOUBT THEY’RE IN A LAW
LIBRARY SOMEWHERE.
LIBRARY SOMEWHERE. IS THE WHITE HOUSE TRYING TO
PURSUE FIGURING OUT WHO THE
WHISTLE-BLOWER IS.
WHISTLE-BLOWER IS. STEPH, I DON’T KNOW THE EX-TENT
OF THE INVESTIGATION OF WHO THE
SOURCE IS THAT INFORMED THAT
WHISTLE-BLOWER COMPLAINT, BUT HE
SAYS HE IS TRYING TO FIGURE IT
OUT.
OUT. AND HE IS TIEING TO FIND THAT
PERSON’S DIETIDENTITY, AND THAT
DESIRE TO FIND THE LEAKERS OR
THE SOURCES OF THE
ADMINISTRATION FITTING A PATTERN
OF BEHAVIOR BY THE PRESIDENT, HE
WENT AFTER SOURCES FOR
JOURNALIST STORIES.
JOURNALIST STORIES. REMEMBER THAT ANONYMOUS OP-ED.
HE HAS PURSUED THIS LINE OF
INQUIRY FOR THE THREE YEARS HE
HAS BEEN IN OFFICE.
>> BRIAN, IS THERE A DANGER THAT
THERE ARE SO MANY DEVELOPMENTS
AND DISTRACTIONS AND SUBPOENAS
THAT COULD END UP IN LENGTHY
COURT BATTLES THAT IT BECOMES
WHITE NOISE TO THE AMERICAN
PUBLIC.
PUBLIC. >> I THINK THIS IS A SERIOUS
DANGER.
DANGER. IT IS WHAT I CALL INFORMATION
OVERLOAD.
OVERLOAD. THEY ARE TRYING TO BOMBARD THE
PUBLIC WITH SO MUCH THAT THEY
CAN’T KEEP UP.
YOU THINK ABOUT JUST YESTERDAY,
RIGHT?
RIGHT? TRUMP EFFECTIVELY CALLED TO
ARREST THE CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE
INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE FOR
TREASON, SOMETHING THAT CAN BE
PUNISHABLE BY DEATH, FOR
SOMETHING THAT HE DID LAWFULLY.
HE DID HIS JOB AND THE PRESIDENT
IS SAYING WE SHOULD ARREST HIM
FOR TREASON.
FOR TREASON. SO I THINK THAT IS ONE THING WE
HAVE TO BE REALLY CAREFUL ABOUT
IS TO NOT LOSE SIGHT OF THE BIG
PICTURE HERE.
PICTURE HERE. THE MORE THAT HE DOES, THE MORE
WE HAVE TO ENSURE THAT THEY ARE
ON THE LIST OF THINGS TO BE
INVESTIGATED AND ULTIMATELY TO
BE ADDED TO THE ARTICLES OF
IMPEACHMENT.
IMPEACHMENT. >> AND WHAT DOES THAT DO TO THE
PRESIDENT’S BRAND.
PRESIDENT’S BRAND. TAKE ME TO THE MIND OF AMERICA’S
ENMYS.
ENMYS. OTHER THAN FOREIGN LEADERS WHO
ARE OUR ENEMYIESENEMIES.
HOW DO THEY SEE THIS?
>> LET’S CALL THEM ADVERSEARYIES
RATHER THAN ENEMIES, BUT
GOVERNMENTED WOULD BELIEVE THEY
HAVE THE RIGHT TO FAIR IT OUT
AND PUNISH THEM.
THEY ALSO INFLUENCE A DEMOCRACY
THAT’S HOW DEMOCRACIES WORK.
AND NOW WE’RE SURPRISED THAT