>> Steve: TODAY IS THE VERY FIRST DIGITAL CITIZEN DAY.
IT'S THE BRAINCHILD OF MEDIA SMARTS, A CANADIAN NON-PROFIT FOCUSED ON DIGITAL AND MEDIA
LITERACY.
AND IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT WE PERHAPS DON'T STOP AND THINK ABOUT
ENOUGH: HOW TO BE GOOD DIGITAL CITIZENS.
SO, FROM THE NATION'S CAPITAL, WE'RE JOINED BY KARA BRISSON-BOIVIN.
SHE IS DIRECTOR OF RESEARCH FOR MEDIA SMARTS, AND SHE'S HERE WITH SOME TIPS ON HOW TO IMPROVE
THE ONLINE PUBLIC SQUARE.
KARA, IT'S GOOD TO MEET YOU.
HOW ARE YOU MANAGING THESE DAYS?
>> Kara: IT'S GREAT.
THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.
>> Steve: IT'S A PLEASURE.
IS THIS A BIG DAY, DIGITAL CITIZENS DAY?
>> IT IS.
AS I SAID IT'S OUR FIRST ANNUAL AND FOR US IT'S A MOMENT TO PAUSE AND REFLECT AND ALLOW FOR
ALL OF US TO THINK ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO, YOU KNOW, LIVE AND ENGAGE AND INTERACT ONLINE.
SO MUCH OF OUR LIVES HAVE SHIFTED ONLINE, ESPECIALLY IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, AND
SOMETIMES WE CAN FORGET THAT, YOU KNOW, OUR ONLINE INTERACTIONS HAVE OFFLINE AND
ONLINE CONSEQUENCES, AND WE WANT TO TAKE THIS MOMENT TO REMIND PEOPLE THAT WHEN WE ARE ONLINE,
WE ARE IN RELATIONSHIP WITH EACH OTHER.
THE HEART AND CORE OF DIGITAL MEDIA IS THAT WE ARE CONNECTED.
WE ARE ALL CONNECTED IN AN INFINITE WEB OF CONNECTIONS ONLINE AND SOMETIMES WE FORGET
THAT RELATIONAL ELEMENT.
WE FORGET THERE'S A PERSON ON THE OTHER END OF A COMMENT OR POST OR OTHER PIECE THAT WE'RE
SHARING.
>> Steve: YOU SAY WE FORGET THERE'S A PERSON ON THE OTHER END OF THE CONTENT THAT WE'RE
SHARING OR BEING INSULTING ABOUT OR BEING TOXIC ABOUT OR WHATEVER.
IS IT A QUESTION OF FORGETTING OR IS IT A QUESTION OF WE REALLY DON'T CARE?
WE JUST WANT TO SAY WHAT WE WANT TO STAY AND WE DON'T GIVE A DAMN WHO WE HURT?
>> I THINK THE ONLINE ENVIRONMENT CAN FACILITATE SOME OF THAT TOXICITY YOU MENTIONED
FOR SURE AND THAT'S ALSO SOMETHING WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO BE AWARE OF.
BUT ALSO IT'S A RESPONSIBILITY OF PLATFORMS, REGULATORS AND SO ON.
I THINK, YOU KNOW, THINGS, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO TOXIC OR ONLINE HATE AND
PREJUDICE, IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT THAT WE PUSH BACK AGAINST THOSE THINGS.
NOW, OUR RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT IT'S TYPICALLY THE LOUDEST 10% MINORITY IN FACT THAT'S PUSHING
THE SORT OF VALUE SETTING OR NORM SETTING WITHIN ONLINE COMMUNITIES.
SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US AS USERS TO SIGNAL TO OTHER USERS, THESE ARE NOT IN FACT THE
ACCEPTED FORMS OR VALUES OF THE ONLINE SPACES THAT WE ARE ENGAGING IN.
ANOTHER WAY THAT THAT CAN BE REMEDIED IS THROUGH PLATFORMS MAKING -- REPORTING OF ONLINE
HATE AND PREJUDICE MORE ACCESSIBLE, EASIER TO USE, AND ALSO DEMONSTRATING ENFORCEMENT
WHEN THE CODES OF BEHAVIOUR IN ONLINE SPACES ARE BROKEN BECAUSE AGAIN THAT WOULD SIGNAL TO USERS
IN THE SPACE THAT THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOUR IS UNACCEPTABLE AND WHEN THOSE CODES OF CONDUCT ARE
BROKEN THAT ENFORCEMENT ON THE PART OF THE PLATFORM IS IN FACT GOING TO HAPPEN.
THAT'S ONE THING THAT OUR RESEARCH HAS SHOWN, IS THAT USERS WANT TO KNOW WHEN THEY
REPORT THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOUR THAT PLATFORMS ARE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
>> Steve: OKAY.
LET'S TACKLE THIS FROM ANOTHER ANGLE AND THAT IS PERSONAL INFORMATION.
WHAT KIND OF PERSONAL INFORMATION DO YOU THINK WE OUGHT TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT
SHARING ONLINE?
>> WELL, I THINK FOR SURE WE WANT TO BE MINDFUL OF THINGS LIKE OUR BIRTHDAY, YOUR
HOMETOWN, BOTH EMAIL ADDRESS AND YOUR PHYSICAL ADDRESS, YOUR PHONE NUMBER.
AND THERE ARE LOTS OF WAYS THAT VARIOUS, AGAIN, ASPECTS OF OUR ONLINE ENGAGEMENT CAN TRICK US
INTO HANDING OVER THAT INFORMATION, SOMETIMES UNKNOWINGLY OR NOT IN WAYS THAT
WE ORIGINALLY ANTICIPATED.
SO ONE THING I WOULD SUGGEST IS WHEN YOU'RE SIGNING UP FOR AN APP OR A PLATFORM, YOU KNOW,
LOOK FOR THE KINDS OF INFORMATION THAT IS TYPICALLY DEMARCATED BY AN ASTERISK.
THAT IS INFORMATION THAT IS ESSENTIAL TO BE ABLE TO SIGN UP FOR THE PLATFORM.
OTHERWISE, YOU'RE GIVING OVER THAT INFORMATION SORT OF ON YOUR OWN FREE WILL AND IT'S NOT
NECESSARILY REQUIRED TO UTILIZE A PLATFORM.
SO THINK ABOUT THOSE THINGS.
YOU CAN ALSO BE AWARE OF WHEN YOU'RE ENGAGING IN ONLINE SURVEYS OR SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW,
WE SEE THESE QUIZZES OR WE GET AN e-CARD AND THEY'RE ASKING FOR INFORMATION AS WELL, THAT
INFORMATION IS OFTEN USED BY DATA BROKERS AND ADVERTISERS IN WAYS THAT WE SOMETIMES MAY NOT
HAVE ORIGINALLY INTENDED OUR INFORMATION TO BE USED.
>> Steve: I HEAR YOU.
BUT OFTENTIMES ISN'T IT THE CASE THAT WE GIVE THAT EXTRA INFORMATION BECAUSE IF IT'S A
SHOPPING WEBSITE, THEY'RE GOING TO SEND US STUFF THAT WE'RE INTERESTED IN.
IF IT'S AN ENTERTAINMENT WEBSITE, THEY'RE GOING TO SEND US INFORMATION ABOUT OTHER
CONCERTS OR MOVIES OR WHATEVER THAT'S SORT OF IN OUR WHEELHOUSE.
SO THAT'S ALL PRESUMABLY TO THE GOOD.
AT WHAT POINT DOES IT BECOME PROBLEMATIC AND THE SHARING OF DATA BECOMES HARMFUL?
>> THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT.
WE worked with Canadian in particular [transmission difficulties] IT'S FELT ACROSS
GENERATIONS.
OFTEN PRIVACY FEELS LIKE THE PRICE WE HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY IN THESE ONLINE SPACES.
WHEN IT COMES TO THINGS LIKE ENTERTAINMENT AND LEISURE CONTENT LIKE YOU MENTIONED, OUR
RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT FOR THE MOST PART USERS ARE PERFECTLY FINE AT GETTING ADVERTISEMENTS
THAT ARE GEARED TO THEIR INTERESTS AND THEIR LIKES.
BUT WE'VE ALSO DONE RESEARCH THAT'S LOOKED AT THINGS LIKE ALGORITHMS AND ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE AND HOW THEY'RE USING DATA TO RECOMMEND CONTENT TO US, AND USERS WERE FLAGGING
THESE CONCERNS WITH THE WAY IN WHICH ALGORITHMS ARE MAKING ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT GROUPS OF
PEOPLE BASED ON THINGS LIKE RACE, SEX, CLASS, AND DETERMINING WHAT KINDS OF
CONTENT TO SHOW THOSE USERS.
ALSO THE WAY THAT ALGORITHMS AND BIAS AND PREJUDICE ARE CREEPING UP IN THINGS LIKE RESUMES
(UNCLEAR) WHETHER OR NOT SOMEONE CALLS FOR A MORTGAGE, THOSE WERE THINGS THAT ARE DEEPLY
PROBLEMATIC AND DEEPLY CONCERNING.
SO I THINK THERE CERTAINLY A KIND OF SPECTRUM HERE.
BUT AGAIN I THINK THE LACK OF AUTONOMY AND CONTROL THAT USERS FEEL AROUND THEIR PRIVACY IS
TROUBLING.
>> Steve: KARA, OBVIOUSLY YOU KNOW THIS.
MEDIA LITERACY IS CERTAINLY NOT WHAT WE NEED IT TO BE.
I WONDER IF YOU COULD SHARE SOME WAYS THAT YOU KNOW OF IN WHICH DISREPUTABLE FOLKS CAN TRICK
PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT AS MEDIA LITERATE AS THEY SHOULD BE INTO DOING THINGS ONLINE THAT THEY
SHOULDN'T BE DOING?
>> YEAH AND, I MEAN, EVEN FOLKS LIKE MYSELF WHO DO SORT OF DIGITAL MEDIA LITERACY FOR A
LIVING CAN SOMETIMES BE DUPED INTO SHARING MISINFORMATION.
I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND THAT TODAY IT'S EASY TO COPY AND SHARE CONTENT
ONLINE.
AND SO IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT THAT WE GO TO THE ORIGINAL SOURCE OF THE PIECE OF
INFORMATION, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE GETTING YOUR NEWS CONTENT PRIMARILY THROUGH SOCIAL MEDIA.
YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO READ A THUMBNAIL OR A HEADLINE OVER AN IMAGE AND RESHARE THAT.
YOU HAVE TO DO THE WORK OF GOING INTO THE ORIGINAL SOURCE.
IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO VERIFY SOURCES.
YOU KNOW, WEBSITES THAT ARE FAKE -- LOOK FAKE CAN BE REAL AND WEBSITES THAT ARE REAL CAN
LOOK FAKE.
SO DOING THINGS LIKE A WIKIPEDIA SEARCH TO FIGURE OUT IF THAT ORGANIZATION IS REPUTABLE.
YOU CAN DO A GOOGLE NEWS SEARCH TO SEE IF MULTIPLE NEWS OUTLETS, INCLUDING NEWS OUTLETS WITH
DIFFERENT POLITICAL BENTS, ARE REPORTING ON A SIMILAR STORY.
I THINK IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT THESE DAYS TO KEEP IN MIND THE WAY IN WHICH OUR EMOTIONS COME
INTO PLAY WHEN WE'RE SHARING INFORMATION.
AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC WHEN THINGS WERE REALLY UNCERTAIN AND I WAS FEELING A
LOT OF FEAR, I WAS ALMOST MANIPULATED INTO SHARING WHAT I THOUGHT WAS A REALLY GOOD NEWS
PIECE ABOUT MARINE LIFE RETURNING TO THE VENICE CANALS.
AND THEN AFTER DOING SOME REVERSE IMAGE SEARCHING AND GOING TO SOME ORIGINAL SOURCES,
I REALIZED THAT THOSE IMAGES WERE REAL BUT THEY WEREN'T OF THE VENICE CANALS, THEY WERE
BEING USED IN A DIFFERENT CONTEXT.
SO MY DESIRE TO SHARE THAT GOOD NEWS STORY IN A TIME WHEN I WAS FEELING A LOT OF FEAR AND
UNCERTAINTY IMPACTED -- IN SOME WAYS SORT OF CLOUDED MY JUDGMENT.
SO WE ALSO NEED TO TAKE OUR EMOTIONS INTO CONSIDERATION AS WELL WHEN WE'RE SIFTING THROUGH
THE ONLINE INFORMATION ECOSYSTEM.
>> Steve: YOU'RE GOING TO FORGIVE THIS QUESTION.
BUT IF AN EXPERT LIKE YOU CAN BE TRICKED, WHAT HOPE IS THERE FOR THE REST OF US?
>> I THINK THERE'S ACTUALLY QUITE A LOT OF HOPE.
WE HAVE THIS FOUR SORT OF STEP PROCESS FOR WHAT WE CALL BREAKING THE FAKE.
OFTEN YOU ONLY NEED TO DO ONE OF THE STEPS AND IT TAKES VERY LITTLE TIME.
WE CAN KEEP IN MIND THAT THERE ARE FACT-CHECKING SOURCES LIKE SNOPES, THERE ARE EXPERTS WHO DO
THIS FOR A LIVING.
IT'S NOT HARD TO CHECK A SOURCE THROUGH A FACT-CHECKING SITE.
AGAIN, GOING TO THE ORIGINAL SOURCE, VERIFYING THE SOURCE, CHECKING OTHER SOURCES.
USUALLY JUST ONE OF THOSE STEPS WILL HELP YOU DETERMINE IF SOMETHING IS TRUE OR NOT.
>> Steve: WELL, BUT THE THING IS, KARA, THAT REQUIRES EFFORT.
AND MOST PEOPLE I THINK, I GUESS, DON'T WANT TO TAKE THE EFFORT.
IN FACT, IT'S MORE FUN TO JUST FORWARD IT OR PASS IT ALONG TO AUNT MARTHA WITHOUT ANY REGARD
WHATSOEVER TO THE VERACITY OF WHAT YOU'RE PASSING ALONG.
SO WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THAT?
>> YEAH, AND I THINK WE'RE KIND OF BACK TO THIS IDEA OF ETHICAL DIGITAL CITIZENSHIP AND WHAT ARE
OUR RESPONSIBILITIES?
I THINK, AGAIN, WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT IN THIS DIGITAL WORLD, WE ARE ALL CONNECTED,
MORE SO THAN IN THE TRADITIONAL MEDIA SENSE.
I AM NO LONGER, YOU KNOW, PRIMARILY THE RECIPIENT OF A NEWSPAPER THAT GETS DROPPED OFF
AS MY FRONT DOOR.
NOW I HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO READ SOMETHING AND POTENTIALLY CIRCULATE IT TO MILLIONS OF
PEOPLE, AND THAT COMES WITH RESPONSIBILITY.
IT'S GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND GREAT FOR RESPONSIBILITY.
SO I DO THINK, YOU KNOW, IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE ALL CONSIDER THE RESPONSIBILITY OF OUR
ACTIONS AT VARIOUS TIMES IN OUR LIVES AND ESPECIALLY WHERE THEY HAVE REPERCUSSIONS FOR THINGS
LIKE OUR PUBLIC HEALTH AND FOR PEOPLE'S POLITICAL DECISION-MAKING.
WE SHOULDN'T TAKE THESE THINGS LIGHTLY.
SO, YES, I WOULD ENCOURAGE ALL OF US, ESPECIALLY ON DIGITAL CITIZEN DAY, TO REALLY THINK
ABOUT THE THINGS WE CAN DO OURSELVES ALONGSIDE THE ACTIONS WE NEED TO SEE BY PLATFORMS AND
GOVERNMENTS.
>> Steve: I KNOW YOU THINK IT'S IMPORTANT, BUT IT'S ALSO, I SUSPECT, FAIR TO SAY THAT --
HERE'S WHERE I SORT OF PUSH BACK A LITTLE BIT.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO OBLIGATION, THERE'S NO LEGAL OBLIGATION TO BE RESPONSIBLE WHEN YOU'RE
ONLINE.
IN FACT, I MEAN, I'VE OBVIOUSLY INTERVIEWED LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO SAY, YOU MAY BE MORE RESPONSIBLE
BEING MORE DISRUPTIVE ONLINE.
YOU MAY BE RESPONSIBLE PUSHING BACK AND CHAFING AT AUTHORITY.
YOU KNOW, MY VIEW WOULD BE IF YOU DO IT IN A CIVIL WAY, THAT'S FINE.
BUT IT'S THE INCIVILITY I FIND PROBLEMATIC.
HOW DO YOU GET ACROSS TO PEOPLE THAT THE INTERNET'S MAIN USE IS NOT TO BLOW THINGS UP OR BE A
COMPLETE JACKASS ONLINE BUT ACTUALLY TO BE A RESPONSIBLE CITIZEN?
>> YEAH, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT FOLKS KEEP IN MIND THAT NOT EVERYONE
EXPERIENCES THE INTERNET IN THE SAME WAY.
THERE ARE FOLKS, RACIALIZED PEOPLE, SEXUALLY GENDER DIVERSE FOLKS, PEOPLE WHO IDENTIFY AS
FEMALE WHO ACTIVELY DISENGAGE FROM ONLINE SPACES AND AVOID THE INTERNET BECAUSE IT IS AN UNSAFE
PLACE FOR THEM.
I THINK WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO IN TERMS OF MAKING SURE THAT THE INTERNET IS A PLACE FOR
EVERYONE, THAT THEY CAN ENGAGE, THAT THEY CAN AMPLIFY, THAT THEY CAN FEEL SAFE ENOUGH TO PUSH
BACK, LIKE YOU'RE SAYING, AGAINST AUTHORITY, TO SHARE THEIR VIEWS IN RESPECTFUL WAYS.
BUT WE'RE A LONG WAY FROM HAVING AN INTERNET WHERE EVERYBODY FEELS LIKE THEY CAN SHARE THEIR
VIEWS AND OPINIONS IN A SAFE WAY, AND I THINK WE NEED TO KEEP THAT IN MIND.
AND I'M NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THE LESSER KNOWN PLATFORMS.
I'M TALKING ABOUT ALL OF THE KINDS OF PLATFORMS THAT MOST OF US ARE REGULARLY ENGAGING IN ON
A DAILY BASIS, AND THESE ARE SPACES THAT A LOT OF FOLKS DON'T FEEL SAFE ON.
AND WE DO HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY.
AS I SAID, YOU KNOW, WE, OTHER USERS, HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO SIGNAL TO OUR FELLOW PLATFORM
USERS THAT THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOUR IS UNACCEPTABLE AND TO BRING IT TO THE ATTENTION OF THE
PLATFORMS AS WELL, AND TO USE OUR COLLECTIVE POWER AS USERS TO HOLD PLATFORMS AND GOVERNMENTS
ACCOUNTABLE.
>> Steve: I'M WITH YOU ON THAT ONE.
HAPPY DIGITAL CITIZEN DAY TO YOU, AND KARA BRISSON-BOIVIN, WE'RE GRATEFUL YOU COULD SPARE
SOME TIME FOR US ON TVO TONIGHT.
MANY THANKS.
>> MY PLEASURE.
THANKS AGAIN.