Quite a
few Trump administration
officials are criticizing
the former president
over his alleged mishandling
of highly classified documents.
One we have yet to hear from
is Trump's
former defense
secretary, Mark Esper, who also served
as secretary of the Army.
And joining us now is former Secretary
Mark Esper.
Secretary Esper, happy Father's Day.
Thanks, Jake. You, too.
So let's start
with the indictment of your former boss.
You have plenty of experience
handling classified documents
as secretary of defense
and Secretary of the Army.
What was your reaction
when you learned from the indictment
that Trump had
all these documents pertaining
to a very sensitive topic,
classified topics,
the country's nuclear
programs, defense
capabilities, vulnerabilities
just lying around Mar
a Lago,
in some instances,
showing them to people
without classified clearance, allegedly.
Do you think his actions put America's
national security at risk?
Well, the
revelations are very troubling,
disturbing and yes, I do.
If the allegations are true,
that it contained information
about our nation's security,
about our vulnerabilities,
but other items,
it could be quite harmful to the nation.
And look, no one is above the law.
And so I think this process
needs to play out and
and people held to account.
The president held to account.
You work closely with Trump.
I've heard two different theories
as to why he had these documents.
One from Stephanie Grisham, who said
he just likes, you know, these are mine.
And he's like a child with a toy.
And one from Michael Cohen.
He said he thought that
Trump had these documents
because he wanted to use them
to further
his own power
or financial well-being in some way.
Why do you think he held
on to these documents
and went to such lengths
to stop them,
to prevent them from being
turned over to the government
Yeah, look, I
think both theories can be true
and likely are true to some extent.
Who knows?
People have described him as a hoarder
when it comes to these type of documents.
But clearly, it was unauthorized,
illegal and and dangerous.
And look, we have a case playing out right now
in Massachusetts
where that young airman
from the
Massachusetts National Guard
is being charged on
similar types of accounts
under the espionage act for for taking
and retaining unauthorized documents
that affected our national defense.
Based on your experiences
working with the Trump
and the actions
alleged in the indictment,
do you think Trump can be trusted
with the nation's secrets ever again?
Well, based on his actions, again,
if proven true under the indictment
by the special counsel, no.
I mean, it's just irresponsible action
that places
our service members at risk, places
our nation's security at risk.
You cannot have these documents
floating around. They need to be secured.
We know how that happens.
And the only authorized persons
are allowed to see documents
or receive information from documents.
So, look,
we've got to take this very seriously.
These are these are serious issues.
You understand
the seriousness
of this better than than I do.
Why is it
why is it a risk to the nation's security
to have these documents
lying around at Mar a Lago?
Well, imagine if a foreign agent,
another country,
were to discover documents
that outline America's vulnerabilities
or the
the weaknesses of the United States.
Military.
Think about how that could be exploited,
how that could be used against us
in a conflict,
how an enemy could develop
countermeasures, things like that.
Or in the case of
the most significant piece
that was raised in the allegation
about U.S.
plans to attack Iran.
Think about
how that affects our readiness,
our ability to prosecute an attack
if indeed we know that Iran
eventually develops a nuclear weapon
and we need to act on it.
I mean, those things affect our ability
to effectively execute policy
and could also affect again, the lives
of our military members
who are sent forward to do
such a type of operation.
So I'm quite concerned about this.
These are very serious allegations,
and they'd be taken seriously
by everybody involved.
Two former top Cabinet
officials have Donald Trump
sounding the alarm over his bid
to return to the White House.
Former Attorney
General Bill
Barr says that the federal indictment
over Trump's
handling of classified documents
show that the former president
will always put his own ego
ahead of the country's interests.
And former
Defense Secretary
Mark Esper
says he believes Trump
put the nation's military secrets
and safety at risk
if the allegations against him
are proven.
Listen to what Esper told
CNN's Jake Tapper
Based on your experiences
working with the Trump
and the actions
alleged in the indictment,
do you think Trump can be trusted
with the nation's secrets ever again?
Well, based on his actions, again,
if proven true under the indictment
by the special counsel, no.
I mean, it's just irresponsible action
that places our service members
at risk, places
our nation's security at risk.
So Zerlina Train joins us now
live in Washington.
Elaine, a pretty striking comment.
What do you make of them?
Well, they are very striking
how these are some of
the starkest comments that we've heard,
not just
from these former Trump
administration officials,
but Republicans
in general
regarding the federal charges
that the former president is facing.
And both Mark Esper, his former
defense secretary
and his former attorney general, Bill
Barr, are saying that if he is convicted
in this case and the charges against him
are proven to be true,
that Donald Trump
should not be president again.
And I think what Mark Esper said
is really a dire warning.
If Donald Trump is reelected
for a second term
and is back in the White House,
he said that what Donald Trump did
was irresponsible
and it put the lives of service
members at risk.
And as you said,
we also have heard
some very strong criticism
from former Attorney General Bill Barr.
He's repeatedly
gone on the airwaves
to talk about these charges
and the serious of them.
And he said that the charges are damning
and that
Donald Trump is not a victim in this.
Let's listen to what he
told CBS News yesterday.
When he put the country at risk.
If he was in the White House again,
he will always put his own interests
and gratifying his own
ego ahead of everything else,
including the country's interests.
There's no question about it.
This is a perfect example of that.
He's like,
you know, he's like a nine year old
defiant nine year
old kid is always pushing
the glass toward the edge of the table,
defying his parents
to stop him from doing it.
It's a means of self-assertion
and exerting his dominance
over other people.
And he's a very petty individual
who will always put his interests
ahead of the country's
His personal gratification of his,
you know, have his ego
Now, I think it's important to note
that Bill Barr and Mark Esper
were not just former Trump
administration officials.
They were Cabinet level secretaries or
an attorney general.
And I think that, you know,
they also had access
to some of the most highly
sensitive materials that Donald Trump had
when in office.
And both of them
had said that the documents
that were in his possession
were very classified
and should have been in the hands
of the National Archives,
had not
should have not been taken back with him
to Maryland over
how things are getting very personal.
Fascinating to hear A.G.
Barr call him up.
Petty
Elaina, has Donald Trump's
team reacted or responded to any of this
Well,
obviously, Donald Trump's
team is arguing something very different.
I was in Bedminster when he returned
from his arraignment
in Miami last Tuesday.
And spoke to a crowd of supporters
at his golf club in New Jersey.
And he said that he believed
Donald Trump said that he was
he believed
he was entitled
to taking these documents with him
and that others were not prosecuted
for doing the same thing.
Of course,
prosecutors in this case are arguing
that the materials in his possession
were some of the most
classified documents,
and that
his unwillingness
to turn them over amounts to obstruction.
But I think what's really striking about
this is Republicans
in Congress,
as well as some of Donald Trump's
2024 presidential rivals,
are kind of leaning
into what Donald Trump is saying
and the excuses he's
making for having these materials,
whereas Mark Esper and Bill Barr are not.
And I think that's why
it's very interesting
to hear
where they differ on this
from the rest of the Republican Party
right now.
Alaina Green live for us in Washington.
Elaine, thank you.