>> Steve: HOW DID 800,000 PEOPLE DIE IN A GRISLY GENOCIDE WITHOUT MOST OF THE INTERNATIONAL MEDIA
PICKING UP ON THIS HORRIBLE STORY?
WHY DIDN'T REPORTERS, EDITORS, AND PRODUCERS AROUND THE WORLD SHOUT IT FROM EVERY PLATFORM TO
PROMPT THE WORLD INTO ACTION?
THOSE QUESTIONS ARE THE SUBJECT OF A NEW BOOK, EDITED BY ALLAN THOMPSON.
IT'S CALLED "MEDIA AND MASS ATROCITY: THE RWANDA GENOCIDE AND BEYOND."
ALLAN THOMPSON IS A SENIOR FELLOW AT CIGI, THE CENTRE FOR INTERNATIONAL GOVERNANCE
INNOVATION, AND HE JOINS US NOW FOR MORE.
ALLAN, GOOD TO HAVE YOU IN THAT CHAIR ONCE AGAIN.
>> Allan Thompson: HI.
>> Steve: LET'S START WITH THIS.
WHY DID YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THE WAY THAT THE MEDIA COVERED THE GENOCIDE?
>> I MEAN, IT'S 25 YEARS AGO, RIGHT?
IS AND EVERYONE WILL HAVE BEEN WATCHING IN THE LAST WEEK OR TWO THESE COMMEMORATIONS OF THE 25TH
ANNIVERSARY OF THE GENOCIDE.
WE'RE LOOKING BACK AT THAT AS ONE OF THE MOST HORRIFIC EVENTS OF THE LAST CENTURY, SO WE
SHOULD BE REMEMBERING IT.
BUT THEN WHEN WE THINK ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT MORE, WE START TO REMEMBER, WELL, WHAT WERE WE
DOING 25 YEARS AGO WHEN THIS UNBELIEVABLE EVENT UNFOLDED?
>> Steve: WHEN YOU SAY "WE", WHAT WERE "WE" DOING?
WHO IS THE "WE"?
>> Allan Thompson: I MEAN JUST "WE", GENERALLY. PEOPLE WATCHING TV, WATCHING THE NEWS.
A LOT OF PEOPLE REMEMBER VAGUELY, BUT THIS WAS AN EVENT WHERE, YOU KNOW, 800,000 OR MORE
PEOPLE WERE KILLED IN THE SPACE OF 100 DAYS.
AT TIMES, THAT'S 10,000 PEOPLE A DAY BEING KILLED IN PUBLIC, IN BROAD DAYLIGHT, AND YET SOMEHOW
IT TOOK US A WHILE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON ON THE GROUND.
AND THEN THE WE BECOMES THE NEWS MEDIA.
JOURNALISTS WORKING THERE OR WORKING IN NEWS ORGANIZATIONS WHO SIMPLY -- PART OF IT WAS
MAYBE THE FOG OF WAR, BUT I THINK IN A LOT OF CASES, JUST COULD NOT QUITE FIGURE OUT WHAT
WE WERE LOOKING AT.
>> Steve: THEY COULDN'T FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY WERE LOOKING AT BECAUSE IT WAS TOO HORRIFIC TO
BELIEVE, OR WHAT?
>> PARTLY THERE WEREN'T ENOUGH OF US LOOKING.
SO AT THE TIME IN '94, I WORKED WITH THE TORONTO STAR AT THE TIME.
I WAS A FOREIGN AFFAIRS WRITER IN THE STAR'S OTTAWA BUREAU.
I COULD HAVE, SHOULD HAVE GONE TO RWANDA AT THAT TIME.
I DIDN'T.
I DIDN'T VOLUNTEER.
I THINK IN RETROSPECT I WAS KIND OF AS OBLIVIOUS AS MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES AND MY PEERS.
THERE WERE ONLY TWO WESTERN JOURNALISTS ON THE GROUND IN RWANDA WHEN THESE EVENTS BROKE
OUT THE EVENING OF APRIL 6TH AND 7TH, 1994.
>> Steve: WHICH OUTLETS DID THEY REPRESENT?
>> ONE WAS I BELIEVE EITHER A BELGIAN OR A DUTCH MEDIA AND THE OTHER WAS A BRITISH JOURNALIST,
A WOMAN NAMED LINDSAY HILLSOME WHO WASN'T WORKING AS A JOURNALIST AT THE TIME.
SHE WAS WORKING WITH AN AID ORGANIZATION, VERY QUICKLY BEGAN TO REPORT AGAIN.
AND THE LOCAL RWANDAN JOURNALISTS, MANY WERE COMPLICIT OF THE EVENTS OF THE GENOCIDE.
MANY WORKED WITH OUTLETS THAT WERE DEMONIZING THE TUTSI MINORITY, WERE PART OF THE
EVENTS, AND JOURNALISTS OF GOOD CONSCIENCE WHO MIGHT HAVE TOLD THEIR OWN STORY, MOST WERE
KILLED.
SIXTY JOURNALISTS WERE KILLED IN THE FIRST DAYS OF THE RWANDA GENOCIDE.
>> Steve: I'M JUST TRYING TO RETRACE YOUR STEPS FOR A SECOND HERE.
HAD YOU GONE TO THE MANAGEMENT OF THE TORONTO STAR AND SAID "THIS STORY IS GOING TO BE THE
WORST GENOCIDE OF OUR LIFETIME," SOMEONE SHOULD BE OVER THERE COVERING IT, I VOLUNTEER, WHAT
DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD HAVE SAID TO YOU?
>> THEY WOULD HAVE SAID YES.
THE TORONTO STAR HAD AN AFRICAN CORRESPONDENT AT THE TIME, A GUY NAMED PAUL WATSON.
VERY FAMOUS.
PAUL WAS TRYING TO GET TO RWANDA BUT WAS TIED DOWN IN SOUTH AFRICA AND THE NEWS DESK AT THE
TIME, PAUL RECOUNTS THIS, THE FOREIGN EDITOR TOLD HIM, YOU ARE NOT LEAVING SOUTH AFRICA UNTIL
THAT STORY IS OVER.
THAT WAS THE CASE FOR A LOT OF NEWS ORGANIZATIONS THAT DID HAVE A PRESENCE IN AFRICA.
THEY WERE COVERING THE END OF APARTHEID IN SOUTH AFRICA.
>> Steve: WHICH WAS A HUGE STORY AS WELL.
>> HUGE STORY.
AND SOME HAVE ARGUED IT'S THE SORT OF CYCLOPS EYE OF THE NEWS MEDIA COULDN'T ABSORB THE TWO
STORIES AT THE TIME.
>> Steve: THE WESTERN MEDIA PROBABLY COVER AFRICA THE LESS THAN ANY CONTINENT IN THE WORLD.
>> IT COVERS IT LESS, IRONICALLY, THAN WE DID 25 YEARS AGO.
VERY FEW JOURNALISTS ON THE GROUND.
NOBODY COVERED RWANDA.
NOT THEN.
NOT NOW.
THE NEWS AGENCIES WE OFTEN RELY UPON, THEY DON'T HAVE BUREAUS IN COUNTRIES LIKE RWANDA.
SO WHEN EVENTS LIKE THIS BEGIN TO UNFOLD, AND THIS IS THE CASE IN OTHER SETTINGS POST RWANDA,
WHEN THESE EVENTS BEGIN TO UNFOLD, IT CAN TAKE US A WHILE (a) TO GET THERE, (b) TO
PIECE TOGETHER WHAT'S GOING ON AND (c) TO THEN TELL THE STORY IN A WAY THAT IS COMPELLING AND
COMPREHENSIVE ENOUGH THAT ORDINARY PEOPLE BACK HOME WATCHING AND READING SIT UP AND
SAY, "OH, MY GOD," YOU KNOW, "WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE?
WHERE IS MY GOVERNMENT?
WHERE ARE OUR PEACEKEEPERS?
WHAT ARE WE DOING TO TRY TO STOP THIS, TO TRY TO INTERVENE?"
AND THAT'S THE PART OF THE MEDIA EQUATION.
YOU KNOW, OUR ROLE IN GOVERNANCE IS IN HELPING PEOPLE TO MAKE UP THEIR MINDS ABOUT WHAT MATTERS
IN THE WORLD.
>> Steve: THERE ARE SOME CONFLICTS, HOWEVER, THERE ARE TOO DANGEROUS FOR EVEN THE
BIGGEST MEDIA ORGANIZATIONS IN THE WORLD TO RISK SENDING THEIR PEOPLE IN TO COVER, REGARDLESS
OF HOW IMPORTANT IT IS THAT THOSE STORIES BE COVERED.
DO YOU THINK WESTERN MEDIA ESSENTIALLY MADE THAT CALCULATION FOR THIS STORY?
>> I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO GIVE SOME CONTEXT.
SO I DO A LOT OF TALKS AND PRESENTATIONS ABOUT THE FAILURE OF THE MEDIA IN RWANDA, AND VERY
OFTEN IN THE AUDIENCE THERE WILL BE -- THIS HAPPENED THE OTHER NIGHT IN LONDON -- THERE WILL BE
IN THE AUDIENCE A JOURNALIST WHO WAS THERE WHO SAYS, "WAIT A SECOND.
I DIDN'T FAIL.
I WORKED REALLY HARD.
I TRIED TO TELL THAT STORY."
AND I MAKE A DISTINCTION IN A WAY BETWEEN JOURNALISTS AND THE MEDIA.
THERE ARE VERY GOOD JOURNALISTS ON THE GROUND IN RWANDA TRYING TO TELL THAT STORY.
THERE JUST WEREN'T ENOUGH OF THEM.
>> Steve: WAS IT MOSTLY FREELANCERS?
>> NO, THERE WERE STAFFERS, THERE WERE PEOPLE FROM REUTERS AND THE NEWS AGENCIES WHO GOT
THERE EVENTUALLY.
THERE'S A BRITISH JOURNALIST, A CAMERAMAN, WHOSE WORK I'VE DONE A LOT OF RESEARCH ON, A GUY
NAMED NICK HUGHES, WHO WAS WORKING WITH AN AGENCY CALLED WTN AT THE TIME, PRIMARILY AS A
SHOOTER, AS A CAMERA OPERATOR, AND HE HAD BEEN IN SOMALIA BEFORE THAT AND WOULD BE IN THE
BALKANS AFTER, AND NICK DID CAPTURE A REALLY QUITE REMARKABLE PIECE OF NEWS FOOTAGE
AND ESPECIALLY IN HINDSIGHT, WHEN YOU LOOK BACK, WHEN CLOSE TO A MILLION PEOPLE WERE BEING
KILLED IN THE SPACE OF 100 DAYS, THERE'S ONLY ONE OR TWO INSTANCES OF A KILLING BEING
CAPTURED ON CAMERA.
AND ONE OF THOSE INSTANCES WAS THE FOOTAGE THAT NICK HUGHES TOOK.
>> Steve: LOOK AT THE MONITOR UP THERE.
TELL US WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
>> ON THE LEFT YOU SEE THERE IS A STILL IMAGE FROM TWO OR THREE MINUTES OF THIS FOOTAGE THAT
NICK TOOK, AND HE IS -- THIS IS THE MORNING OF APRIL THE 11TH.
SO, YOU KNOW, THE EVENTS BEGAN SIX, SEVEN, SO THE FIRST WEEK OF THE GENOCIDE, WHEN WE'RE STILL
NOT REALLY UNDERSTANDING WHAT'S GOING ON THERE, RIGHT?
WE'RE SEEING VERY LITTLE FOOTAGE FROM THERE.
MAYBE SOME PHOTOGRAPHS OF BODIES AND THE MILITARY GOING THROUGH THE STREETS.
HE IS THERE AROUND 10:00 IN THE MORNING.
GOES TO A BUILDING CALLED THE FRENCH SCHOOL WHERE BELGIAN TROOPS WERE LOCATED.
SO THIS WAS A SAFE PLACE FOR HIM TO GO.
IT WAS A VANTAGE POINT THAT HE COULD FILM ACROSS INTO THE VALLEY, INTO THIS NEIGHBOURHOOD
CALLED GECONDO IN KIGALI, WHICH WAS A HOTBED OF HUTU EXTREMISM.
THIS WAS ONE OF THE FIRST PLACES WHERE KILLINGS WERE OCCURRING.
SO HE TRAINED HIS CAMERA ACROSS THE VALLEY AND HE SEES THESE TWO FIGURES KNEELING IN THE ROAD AND
REALIZES THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THEIR LAST MOMENTS, AND HE CAPTURES A FEW MINUTES OF
THIS.
AND YOU SEE THEM -- IT'S KIND OF BLURRY BECAUSE HE'S SHOOTING FROM A DISTANCE.
YOU SEE THESE TWO FIGURES ON THE GROUND.
ONE IS MOVING HIS HANDS AS IF HE'S PRAYING.
AND MEN ARE STROLLING AROUND NEARBY WITH CLUBS AND STICKS AND AT ONE POINT THEY COME AND POUND
SOME OF THE OTHER BODIES, PEOPLE WHO HAD ALREADY BEEN KILLED AROUND THESE TWO, AND THEN
FINALLY TWO PEOPLE DESCEND AND KILL THEM ON CAMERA, AND IN THIS CASE NICK COULDN'T UPLOAD
FOOTAGE FROM RWANDA AT THE TIME, SO THAT'S PART OF THE STORY.
NO SATELLITES THERE.
YOU COULDN'T -- HE HAD TO RUSH TO THE AIRPORT, HAND THAT TAPE TO SOMEBODY GETTING ON A HERC
THAT WAS FLYING TO NAIROBI.
CALLS NAIROBI.
HIS PRODUCER PICKS IT UP.
SEND IT TO LONDON.
HIS PEOPLE SEND IT TO CNN, ZDF AND OTHER BROADCASTERS, AND THAT FOOTAGE WAS ON THE AIR THAT
EVENING IN NORTH AMERICA AND AROUND THE WORLD.
I GUESS WE JUST DIDN'T REALLY KNOW WHAT WE WERE LOOKING AT, RIGHT?
AND WE SAW TRIBAL ANARCHY, WHEN WHAT WE REALLY WERE LOOKING AT WAS GENOCIDE.
YOU KNOW?
THIS WAS PRIMA FACIE EVIDENCE OF GENOCIDE.
BUT WE DIDN'T HAVE THE CONTEXT.
WE DIDN'T HAVE THE UNDERSTANDING.
WE DIDN'T HAVE THE BACKGROUND.
>> Steve: YOU TRIED TO IDENTIFY THE PEOPLE KILLED IN THAT SHOT.
>> YEAH, SO I WENT BACK LATER.
I ENDED UP TALKING TO NICK AFTER THE FACT, MEETING WITH HIM, TALKING TO HIM, AND DISCOVERED
HE HAD MADE ONE ATTEMPT YEARS LATER TO GO BACK AND TRY TO IDENTIFY WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE.
SO THIS FOOTAGE IS REALLY IMPORTANT IN A WAY.
IT'S A FILM OF THE RWANDA GENOCIDE.
AND YET WE DON'T KNOW, DIDN'T KNOW WHO THOSE PEOPLE WERE.
WITH NICK'S PERMISSION I WENT BACK TO THE STREET.
HE HOOKED ME UP WITH A RWANDAN FILMMAKER, AND THIS WAS CRITICAL.
BECAUSE WE LITERALLY DID A BIT OF CRIME REPORTING YEARS LATER.
WE KNEW WHERE THE FOOTAGE -- WHERE THE DEATHS HAD OCCURRED, BASICALLY BECAUSE OF THE VANTAGE
POINT WHERE NICK HAD BEEN SHOOTING.
WE JUST WENT AND KNOCKED ON DOORS AND LOOKED FOR WITNESSES.
ENDED UP WITH TWO WOMEN WHO LIVED ON EITHER SIDE OF THE STREET, HAD SEEN THE KILLING,
IDENTIFIED WHO THE VICTIMS WERE.
AND AFTER THEY DESCRIBED TO ME WHAT THEY HAD SEEN, ONE WOMAN ACTUALLY ACTING OUT WHAT THE MAN
WAS DOING, THE MAN WAS PRAYING, AND THEN I SHOWED THEM THE FOOTAGE AND THEY CORROBORATED,
THEY REMEMBERED EXACTLY THE MOMENT, THE TIME OF DAY, THE PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE, AND THEY
TOOK ME TO THE SURVIVORS.
>> Steve: YOU MET THEIR FAMILY?
>> THIS WOMAN, ROSALIE, WHO HAD LOST -- IT WAS HER HUSBAND AND DAUGHTER, HER GABRIELLE AND
JUSTINE.
IT WAS MENTIONED THERE WAS FOOTAGE OF THIS.
THE WOMAN BECAME AGITATED AND SAID THROUGH THE INTERPRETER, "I HAVE TO SEE THESE PICTURES."
AND I TOLD THE INTERPRETER, I CANNOT SHOW THIS WOMAN THE DEATH OF HER HUSBAND AND HER DAUGHTER.
AND SHE INSISTED.
AND I SAID, "TELL HER I'M VERY SORRY.
MY LAPTOP BATTERY HAS DIED."
AND SHE POINTED TO THE WALL AND SAID, "WE HAVE ELECTRICITY."
SO I SHOWED HER THE FOOTAGE.
WITHIN MOMENTS, SHE WAS HEAVING, SOBBING, SHE LEFT THE ROOM.
I ACTUALLY WAS WORRIED SHE WAS GOING TO HAVE A HEART ATTACK, SHE WAS SO UPSET.
THE TRANSLATOR WAS UPSET.
WE CLOSED THE LAPTOP.
WE WERE READY TO LEAVE.
THEN SHE REEMERGES.
SHE'S FINE.
SHE SAYS, NO, NO, LET'S CONTINUE.
AND TOLD ME THE STORY OF HER HUSBAND AND HER DAUGHTER, WHAT HAD HAPPENED THAT DAY, THE DEATH
SQUADS HAD COME FOR THEM.
SHE WAS SEVEN MONTHS PREGNANT AND THEY JUST SORT OF LEFT HER WITH HER OTHER KIDS.
THEY WENT AND HID FOR THE DAY AND CAME BACK AND DISCOVERED THAT THEY WERE DEAD.
AND THEN SHE SENT HER DAUGHTER OUT OF THE ROOM AND SHE CAME BACK WITH THOSE TWO PHOTOGRAPHS.
AND, YOU KNOW, I HAD BEEN LOOKING AT THIS FOOTAGE OVER AND OVER AND OVER IN THE CONTEXT OF
TALKING TO PEOPLE ABOUT THE MEDIA AND THE GENOCIDE, WITHOUT EVER KNOWING WHO THESE PEOPLE
WERE.
AND SUDDENLY THEY WERE IN THE PALM OF MY HANDS, YOU KNOW, THESE PHOTOGRAPHS.
AND IT WAS -- IN 20-SOME YEARS OF JOURNALISM, I THINK IT WAS THE MOST POWERFUL MOMENT THAT I
HAD EVER EXPERIENCED.
>> Steve: ARE YOU STILL IN TOUCH?
>> Allan Thompson: SO I DID AT THE TIME. I KINDA MADE A DEAL, A PACT, WITH ROSALIE AFTER I HAD
INTERVIEWED HER AND SAID, "LISTEN, THIS IS A REALLY IMPORTANT STORY. THE WORLD
SHOULD KNOW. THIS FOOTAGE IS VERY RARE. I WILL MAKE MONEY FROM THIS STORY." AS IT TURNED
OUT, I DID SELL THIS STORY BACK TO THE TORONTO STAR WHERE I HAD FORMERLY WORKED AND SO I TOLD
HER, "I WILL BRING YOU THE PROCEEDS OF THIS STORY".
AND IN THE END, I DID.
I WAS GOING BACK AND FORTH TO RWANDA A LOT. THOSE DAYS, CARLETON UNIVERSITY HAD A
PARTNERSHIP WITH A JOURNALISM SCHOOL THERE. I'VE JUST KEPT IN TOUCH WITH THEM OVER THE YEARS
AND I WAS THERE WITH THEM ON APRIL 11TH WHEN THEY MARKED THE 25TH ANNIVERSARY OF THEIR
FAMILY'S LOSS.
>> Steve: HERE'S WHAT YOU SAY IN THE BOOK'S EPILOGUE:
>> Steve: IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE NOT GETTING ANY BETTER AT COVERING THESE KINDS OF THINGS
TODAY THAN WE WERE 25 YEARS AGO.
IS THAT THE CONCLUSION?
>> YEAH, WELL, THE MEDIA LANDSCAPE HAS SHIFTED DRAMATICALLY.
NEWS ORGANIZATIONS HAVE CONTRACTED.
THERE ARE FEWER CORRESPONDENTS.
THE CONCEPT OF THE FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT, RIGHT, IS ALMOST PASSE.
FEWER PEOPLE ON THE GROUND PAYING ATTENTION.
AND IN THE INTERVENING 25 YEARS, SOCIAL MEDIA, WHICH DID NOT EXIST IN RWANDA IN '94 -- IN
FACT, IMAGINE IF IN MODERN-DAY RWANDA, EVERYONE CARRIES A MOBILE PHONE, EVERYONE CARRIES
ESSENTIALLY A VIDEO CAMERA IN THEIR HAND.
JUST IMAGINE THE FLOOD OF IMAGES THAT WE WOULD HAVE EXPERIENCED HAD RWANDA BEEN UNFOLDING IN
THAT CONTEXT.
BUT THEN YOU LOOK AT SOCIAL MEDIA, THE SORT OF HATE MEDIA THAT WAS ON THE RADIO, ON THE
AIRWAVES IN RWANDA, HAS NOW SORT OF METASTASIZED ONTO SOCIAL MEDIA.
AND SO MEDIA ARE ONCE AGAIN PRESENT IN CONTEXTS LIKE KENYA, SOUTH SUDAN, CENTRAL AFRICAN
REPUBLIC, MYANMAR, WHEN THOSE USING MEDIA MOST EFFECTIVELY ARE THE BAD GUYS, ARE THOSE WHO ARE
DEMONIZING THEIR OPPONENTS, PERPETRATING THESE EVENTS.
>> Steve: I WAS GOING TO SAY IT WAS AN OPEN QUESTION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT HAD THERE BEEN
SOCIAL MEDIA AT THE TIME IT COULD HAVE PLAYED A CONSTRUCTIVE ROLE IN GETTING THE WORD OUT,
SPREADING THE WORD THAT THE COUNTRY WAS UNDER SIEGE.
IT COULD HAVE EASILY GONE THE OTHER WAY WHERE THE PERPETRATORS EXPLOIT SOCIAL MEDIA FOR EVEN
WORSE, RIGHT?
>> WHICH IS THE CASE NOW.
NOW IT IS DOUBLE-EDGED, AS ALWAYS, THE MEDIA IS A DOUBLE-EDGED SWORD.
I MEAN, WE CAN USE THESE TOOLS FOR GOOD OR ILL.
OFTEN BOTH ARE HAPPENING AT THE SAME TIME.
BOTH ARE SORT OF IN CONFLICT.
WE CAN USE SOCIAL MEDIA, CLEARLY NEWS ORGANIZATIONS, THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT ARISE NOW TO
COVER EVENTS LIKE THESE IN THE FURTHEST CORNER OF THE GLOBE.
YOU KNOW, THERE IS NO LONGER A PLACE THAT YOU CAN'T GET TO OR THAT YOU CANNOT REACH OUT TO
THROUGH SOCIAL MEDIA.
I THINK THAT IS ONE OF THE CHALLENGES FOR NEWS ORGANIZATIONS IS TO FIGURE
OUT IN THIS NEW LANDSCAPE HOW DO WE ACTUALLY NAVIGATE THIS SO THAT WE CAN USE ALL
THESE TOOLS AT OUR DISPOSAL TO COVER EVENTS. IN THE EPILOGUE OF THE BOOK, I LOOK AT LAST
SUMMER THERE WAS A PIECE OF FOOTAGE, AN EERILY KIND OF FAMILIAR WITH THE FOOTAGE OF 25
YEARS AGO IN RWANDA OF THE KILLING.
TURNS OUT IT WAS TAKEN IN CAMEROON OF TWO WOMEN BEING DRAGGED TO THEIR DEATHS WITH
SMALL CHILDREN WITH THEM.
IN THE END, THEY'RE EXECUTED.
AND THIS FOOTAGE WAS TAKEN AS A TROPHY PHOTO BY THE PERPETRATORS.
ENDS UP ON SOCIAL MEDIA.
AND THERE WAS A REALLY INTERESTING BBC COLLABORATION WHERE THEY WORKED WITH
NON-JOURNALISTS, GUYS WHO CALL THEMSELVES OPEN SOURCE INVESTIGATORS, WHO WITHIN DAYS
WERE ABLE TO USE GOOGLE EARTH, ALL THESE OTHER MODERN TOOLS TO ACTUALLY IDENTIFY WHERE THAT
FOOTAGE WAS TAKEN, WHO THE PERPETRATORS WERE, WHAT WEAPONS THEY WERE USING, WHAT MILITARY
FORCE THEY BELONGED TO, AND YOU GET THIS REALLY INTERESTING FUSION OF JOURNALISM AND
TECHNOLOGY, THE SORT OF POSSIBILITY -- LIKE, IN A BLEAK MEDIA LANDSCAPE WHERE IT'S EASY
TO LAMENT EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING WRONG, I THINK THERE IS STILL A POSSIBILITY TO FIND SOME
GLIMMER OF HOPE THAT WE CAN GET IT RIGHT, WE CAN USE THE TOOLS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO US TO TELL
THESE STORIES AND MAKE PEOPLE PAY ATTENTION.
>> Steve: MUCH MORE ON THIS IN "MEDIA AND MASS ATROCITY: THE RWANDA GENOCIDE AND BEYOND"
WITH A FORWARD BY ROMEO DALLAIRE, EDITED BY OUR GUEST, ALLAN THOMPSON.
THANKS SO MUCH, ALLAN.
>> THANK YOU, STEVE.