In this recap,
you're going to hear the highlights or should we say hi-lies from Ghislaine
Maxwell's 2016 deposition.
Virginia Roberts Giuffre was suing her for calling her a liar when she dared to
file charges against her and Epstein in 2015.
It took four long years of legal battles
for the transcript of that deposition to be released. Last week,
we got to look at the 465 page document,
and a lot is redacted, but thanks to slate.com,
we were able to break the code in a few places. And in this recap,
we're going to tell you how to break the code at home and unearth a few more
names.
And just to set the tone for you, Virginia Giuffre's lawyer,
Sigrid McCawley asked Ghislaine if she'd ever said to anybody that recruiting
other girls to perform sexual massages for Jeffrey Epstein takes the pressure
off of you.
This is what Ghislaine said about being labeled a recruiter for Epstein.
"I totally resent and find it disgusting that you use the word recruit.
Your implication is repulsive." She can deny it all she wants,
but I wouldn't let my daughter trick or treat at her house that's for sure.
Because it's Halloween.
Okay. No tricks here.
Just keep watching to get all the highlights from this she said,
she said deposition.
I'm Amy and I'm Chris with True Crime Recaps.
So before we dig into this deposition,
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So I'm curious. How much was Jeffrey Epstein paying Ghislaine?
Okay. According to her,
in 2001 she was making somewhere between 100,000 and
200,000 a year.
She said she didn't remember exactly how much,
but she did admit that there were other perks.
He loaned her the money to buy a townhouse.
Well, according to tatler.com, that might be the upper East side,
New York townhouse that she supposedly sold for $15 million.
Yeah. Nice perk. He also gave her several cars,
and get this, a helicopter.
Virginia said she had dinner with Bill Clinton, Epstein,
Ghislaine and two other underage girls on Epstein's private Island.
And that Ghislaine flew Clinton there in her helicopter.
Oh,
in the deposition they ask Ghislaine if she'd ever used that helicopter to fly,
insert big redacted name here,
And because slate.com had published that rosetta stone for those
redactions, we know that big redacted name is Clinton's.
Just like Virginia said. Oh, here's how Slate cracked the code.
I'm reading from the article.
"The deposition includes a complete alphabetized index of the redacted and
unredacted words that appear in the document.
You can see in the index that a word that falls alphabetically between clients
and clock appears on quite a number of pages.
From this we know that the word starts with the letters C L.
The index indicates that this word shows up in the seventh line of page 135.
If you go to page 135, you can see that in this instance,
the word Clinton has not been redacted. And wa la!
Well, Ghislaine denied the whole Clinton helicopter thing.
And they asked her if she'd ever had dinner with Clinton on Epstein's Island and
she said this.
"Categorically definitively absolutely without a shadow of a doubt when
I was present or any other time that I am aware of was ever on that
island, I do not believe he went to that Island ever, ever.
That is an absolute fabrication and an absolute flat out lie.".
Okay.
But she did admit that she had been on Epstein's private plane with
Bill Clinton. Although come on, it would be pretty hard not to admit that.
According to records found by Fox news.com,
his name appeared on flight manifests almost 26 times.
And she must have realized that forgetting that you are on a private plane with
a former president would be pretty unbelievable,
but apparently forgetting that you ever flew with an underage sex slave is
absolutely believable.
According to flight logs collected by the Daily News and mentioned in this
deposition,
Ghislaine and Virginia were on that private plane together 23 times.
But Ghislaine said she didn't remember if Virginia was ever there or not.
And she especially did not remember flying with her to London
so Virginia could allegedly be trafficked to Prince Andrew.
So let's talk about those allegations.
Using Slate's Rosetta stone method we cracked a few places where it appears that
Prince Andrew's name was redacted. Ghislaine was asked how long she's known him.
"A very long time." Did she introduce him to Jeffrey?
"That would be another of Virginia's lies and the lies you perpetrate.
I never introduced Prince Andrew allegedly to Jeffrey
Epstein anytime ever. So just add that to the long list of lies.".
In her interview with the Daily Beast,
Virginia says they flew to Ghislaine's London house in 2001,
when she was 17.
She says Ghislaine woke her up in the morning and told her "you're going to meet
a Prince today." She took her shopping and bought her a $5,000 purse.
And she was told to "do for him what you do for Epstein.".
And then we come to THAT picture.
After a night out at Tramp nightclub,
Virginia says they all came back to Ghislaine's house where that picture was
taken. That was right before she was told to go and have sex with the Prince.
What a Disney story. In her interview with the Daily Beast,
Virginia described it like this.
"The abuse went on for a little bit in the bathroom,
and then it continued to the bedroom. And he wasn't rude or anything about it,
he said, thank you." Great.
Here's what Ghislaine had to say about it.
"I have no idea where this picture was taken. I know what she purports it to be,
but I'm not going to say that I do." Although she did admit the house looks
familiar.
Because it's her house. Yeah.
But then she goes on to say,
"her entire ludicrous and absurd story of what took place in my house
is an obvious lie." Oh, why is it such an obvious lie,
you might be asking?
Because her bathtub is "too small for any type of
activity whatsoever.".
Yeah.
The Prince denies these allegations and says he was with his daughter at a Pizza
Express that night.
And then there's that story about a party,
a prince and a puppet. And so if you haven't heard this one yet,
it's pretty cringey. Basically,
Virginia said Ghislaine and Epstein gave Prince Andrew a puppet that looked like
him so he could grope the girls with it, including Virginia.
And when Ghislaine was asked about it, she,
she danced around that question like Patrick Swayze.
And finally she admitted knowing something vague,
possibly about a caricature of Prince Andrew,
maybe being in Epstein's house.
But she has no idea where it came from. And definitely not what it was for.
Speaking of puppets. Virginia has said that Epstein was abusive,
but Ghislaine was the puppet master,
pulling his strings and running the whole operation.
Based on this deposition Ghislaine dodges questions like a pro.
Her trial next year should be interesting to watch.
Totally agreed.
Now here's a perfect example of the way she avoided answering questions through
the entire deposition. So she was asked,
"when did you first recruit a female to work for Mr. Epstein?" Here's how
she answers.
"First of all, can you please clarify the question?
I don't understand what you mean by female.
I don't understand what you mean by recruit.
Please be more clear and specific about what you are suggesting.".
That question gets resolved when she admits that. Yes, she is a female,
but her role for Jeffrey Epstein was basically just Human Resources,
starting in 1992.
Now let's get into how exactly Virginia Giuffre was recruited.
Her lawyer gets the conversation started like this.
"Did you invite Virginia Giuffre to come to Jeffrey Epstein's home when she was
under the age of eighteen?".
And there's no way Ghislaine is touching that one. She immediately says,
"Virginia Roberts held herself out as a masseuse and invited herself to
come and give a massage.".
Well. She says it was her job to hire people and Epstein wanted a massage,
so she went and found him a massage.
Who just happened to be 15 and working as a locker room attendent at
Mar-a-Lago.
Right? I mean,
Virginia says she was taking a break and reading a book about massage therapy
when Ghislaine spotted her. In an interview with the Daily Beast, she says,
Ghislaine came up to her and said, "I know this older gentleman,
who's looking for a traveling masseuse. He's super rich.
He flies around everywhere. If you want,
you can come by for an interview." And then she says,
her father drove her to the house where Ghislaine brought her into Epstein,
who was naked on the massage table. And in her words,
"Ghislaine and Epstein exchanged a Cheshire grin.
And he nodded with approval.".
Ghislaine says the whole time Virginia was in the house she was in the driveway
talking to her mother, but her father wasn't there.
Now, which version of that story do you believe?
According to Ghislaine,
the subtitle of this deposition could be "Virginia is a liar." She said it
in some way, hundreds of times. Here's one example,
"Virginia lied 100% about absolutely everything that took place
in that first meeting.
She has lied repeatedly often and is just an awful fantasist.
She is an absolute liar and everything she said is a lie.
And therefore everything that stems from that as a lie.".
So it sounds like Ghislaine is really regretting the day she recruited Virginia.
And not just her. She's accused of recruiting a lot of underage girls to
massage Epstein. And to massage their friends.
And even to massage Ghislaine herself.
In the deposition,
she was asked if she'd ever participated in an orgy with a 13 year old and
Epstein. And if she'd ever asked her or any of the other girls,
how old they were.
Or if she actually thought that this 13 year old looked like she was over 18.
And then they asked her this.
"Does Jeffrey like to have his nipples pinched during sexual encounters?".
Apparently there were more than a hundred girls just in Florida that can
potentially answer that question.
So, okay. You're talking about this notorious black book.
It was stolen by Epstein's former Butler.
The information in that book was supposed to be the equivalent of the smoking
gun with names and numbers of the girls Epstein abused and the rich and powerful
friends that he trafficked them to.
The deposition only describes the massive list of girls' names under the heading
'Florida Massages.' When they confronted her with it,
Ghislaine just kept calling it "the stolen document" and refuse to answer
direct questions.
She would only say she didn't know anything about the names on the list,
even though the man who stole it says he downloaded it from her computer.
According to the Independent,
the butler stole the book as insurance to protect him from Epstein.
They asked Ghislaine if she'd ever threatened him with this statement,
"You better watch out and keep your mouth shut with respect to what occurred at
Mr. Epstein's home." She denied it, of course,
and the book was confiscated by the FBI after he tried to sell it for $50,000.
OK, that black book,
it wasn't the only piece of evidence that they threw at her.
They had 25 exhibits to show her,
and one of them was the police report from Epstein's first arrest in
2005. In that one,
a 14 year old and her parents started an investigation with the Palm Beach
police. Now, when they finally arrested Epstein,
they had testimony from over 30 underage minors telling police that they were
engaged in sexual acts during massages.
In 2008, Epstein took a deal for minimal charges,
and he had to register as a sex offender.
It amounted to nothing more than a slap on the wrist. In that police file,
there was a statement from a 14 year old saying he paid her $200 and then told
her he'd pay her more if she brought him more girls,
"the younger, the better.".
Ghislaine's reaction when she was asked if she believed that Epstein sexually
abused underage girls was also bizarre.
She refused to give a yes or no answer. I mean, she's seen the police report.
Obviously she
knew what he was being convicted for at the time (even though she says she
didn't). Instead, she just kept saying Virginia is lying.
They even asked her why she stayed close to him when he was in jail for a few
months in 2008. And she said this.
"I'm a very loyal person.
And Jeffrey was very good to me when my father passed away.
And I believe that you need to be a good friend in people's hour of need.
And I felt that it was very thoughtful, nice thing for me to do,
to help in very limited fashion,
which was helping if he had any issue with his homes in terms of the staffing
issues. And it was very, very minor,
but I felt it was thoughtful in somebody's hour of need.".
What a saint.
Virginia says Ghislaine told her the same thing that girl said in the police
report. Bring Epstein girls who were as young as possible.
He wanted happy little Lolita's,
according to the interview she gave the Daily Beast.
She denied ever recruiting any underage girls to massage abstain or
anyone else. She did,
she did expand on the job opportunity though.
It was so ridiculous I had to share. Okay,
here's what she said.
"I was always happy to give career advice to people.
And I think that becoming somebody in the healthcare profession,
either exercise,
instructor or nutritionist or professional massage therapist is an
excellent job opportunity. Hourly wages are around seven,
eight or $9. And as a professional health care provider,
you can earn somewhere between,
as we have established $100 to $200.
And to be able to travel and have a job that pays that is a wonderful job
opportunity.
So in the context of advising people for opportunities for work,
it is possible that I would have said that they should explore massage therapy
as an option.".
Ghislaine Maxwell, the patron saint of massage therapists everywhere.
There were a few off-topic questions that might surprise you.
They asked her if she knew if Epstein worked for the CIA, FBI,
or Israeli government. She said no.
They asked her if she was aware that Jeffrey Epstein has told people that he
worked for the government to recover stolen funds. She said no.
And they asked if she knew of any friends he had in the FBI. And you guessed it.
She said no.
It was the last question though,
that really kind of made me want to like stand up and cheer for Virginia's
lawyer. She asked Ghislaine,
"Do you agree that calling a sexual abuse victim a liar when she speaks
out about her abuse can cause psychological harm?" And how did she answer that?
Not great. She said,
"I would like to say all of the terrible thingsVirginia Roberts said about me is
extremely harmful and you should turn that around. All the lies she has said,
and you have backed her on, have been extremely damaging to me.
So what I can testify to is that somebody who has made these outrageous
allegations and who is a serious liar,
and that I know for a fact is a liar that I can testify is damaging to
me. Wow, So Ghislaine ended
up settling Virginia's lawsuit in 2017 after a judge looked over the things you
just heard and decided that the case should go to trial.
So when Epstein was arrested for a second time in July, 2019,
and died in prison only a month later,
she went on the run. She secretly bought a mansion in Bradford, New Hampshire.
Her phone bill was under the name G Max.
She got deliveries to a fake name and on July 2nd, 2020,
the FBI broke through her locked gate and yelled for her to give herself up.
But she didn't. Instead, she ran into another room to try and hide.
And when they broke down the door and arrested her,
prosecutors said her efforts to evade detection were so obvious she even had a
cell phone wrapped in tin foil on a desk.
She's been charged with enticement of minors,
sex trafficking of children and perjury.
Her trial is scheduled for July 2021.
Well, thanks so much for digging into this deposition with us today.
And if you want to read it for yourself and try your hand at cracking the code,
there's a link to the full document and the Slate article in the description
below.
And if you like getting all the crime in half the time,
remember to subscribe and hit the bell so you know,
when it's time to come back and chime in. We're here every Wednesday.
And Sunday. See you soon. Bye-bye.