and previous Afghan government collapsed. Since then, the country
has spiraled into economic and society wide chaos. And now the Taliban's
treatment of women and girls is again a central issue Here is Lisa
Desjardin.
This weekend, the Taliban ordered that women can no longer work for
any non governmental organizations, including relief agencies. Any
such group that continues to employ women will lose its license,
according to the Economic Ministry in response for of the largest
international NGOs upon which the country depends for aid, decided
to suspend operations entirely.
This days after the Taliban moved to block women from universities,
effectively banning women and girls from middle school through college
for more return to Vicki Akin, the Afghanistan country director at
the International Rescue Committee, She's in Minneapolis and Fawzia
Koofi, who was a member of parliament in Afghanistan and headed the
parliament's Women Affairs Commission.
She's also an author of the book, The Favorite Daughter. One Woman's
Fight to lead Afghanistan into the future, and she joins us from
London. Thank you both very esteemed in this area. Vicky, I want
to start with you What is happening in Afghanistan right now? What
kind of operations have you ceased? And what does it mean? What's
the impact?
Sure, the international Rescue Credit Committee has been working
in Afghanistan since 1988 we currently have around 8000 staff about
3000 of them are women. We have seized all of our operations. Um
and and health and emergency response in education and in economic
development Until we can understand a pathway forward because, as
a humanitarian organization, we have to be able to serve both.
Men and women equally and in Afghanistan. We cannot serve women.
Unless we have women on our staff. We know that there is a being
cut off. Now There are thousands of workers who no longer have jobs
to feed their family. I wonder. What is the reaction from the people?
You know in Afghanistan, and what do you think this means going ahead?
The people are devastated. The people not only woman, men and woman,
because, uh, definitely one can, you know live under poverty line
and in hunger, but with injustice and that level of gender apartheid.
Nobody is able to tolerate or accept. We have seen since the Taliban
seize power last August 2021 they have issued with the latest decrease
they have issued 35 decreased to eliminate and literally erased woman
from the public sphere.
The last one was, um banning women from working with international
and non governmental organizations. These were women that were the
breadwinners of the family. These were the woman that lost their
male members of the family, and they were basically supporting their
family through the salary that they were receiving. So the Taliban
actually have announced war against women, and I must. I'm grateful
for those organizations who protested. We need to really find a way
out of this situation. Vicky has as far as I was just saying women
were key, and especially in
Health care, which is somewhat big part of what your organization
does. Can you take me into what it means for no longer having healthcare
clinics from NGOs? Potentially. And what is the healthcare situation?
The crisis that you've seen recently?
Sure, well with with healthcare, Um as we know, in Afghanistan, there
are many areas where women are only allowed to see women, doctors
or women nurses. And so it's absolutely essential to continue to
have, um female staff in those areas, and this seems to be recognized
at least by the minister of Health.
Um, the issue will be Can we continue to have our female staff go
to clinics and arrived there safely? Um, without this critical care,
many women and Children may die without access to these services.
But even more importantly, as as far as he has said, these women
that are no longer have a job. Are there only only bread waters in
their homes. So are their families going to starve to death because
they can't come to work.
I know that you have seen increasing malnutrition on a devastating
scale in Afghanistan to all of this. The Taliban has said they made
this decision because women were not abiding by the dress code. Vicky,
What do you say to that? What do you make of that? Um, I don't agree
with that, because in my own organization, women are abiding by
Um, the Islamic dress code in rural areas where we do much of our
work, even under the republic. They have always dressed conservatively
because that's what you needed to do in those communities. So it
would be good to understand exactly what they mean by this.
This brings me to the question of who is the Taliban right now, In
negotiations that you participated in
The Taliban presented itself as a new, more modern, more moderate
Taliban. However, there was a different Taliban when you were younger
woman, are they now? The same? Is this a new Taliban? Or is this
just as bad as before? They have enforced the same policies that
they were enforcing on women and girls When they were in power. First
time what we had hoped was and what we had tend to believe what they
were saying during negotiation that they have.
Changed that they were allowed women to go to school, and they would
allow women to work. And in fact, they clearly told me during negotiation
that from their perspective, women can become, you know, as high
level as prime minister. I think they were saying that to get to
power and like basically trapped, create a narrative that we're all
now trapped into that narrative. Some people look at situations like
this in the West and say there's starvation. There is incredible
oppression.
Perhaps this is a time when the people will rebel and overthrow this
kind of leadership. Fawzia, do you think that's realistic anytime
soon, First of all, divided among themselves. Secondly, there is
a huge level of opposition. Totally. They don't know how to govern,
and I'm hoping with the level of her, you know, Seven resistance
that now is increasing day by day, and you know that not only women
are now protesting made it also protesting and as in a very conservative
areas like Kandahar, like Gerard. Male students were actually protesting
and
Against the Taliban's decision. So I'm hoping that over time, all
of these pressure will will either make Taliban accountable or will
pave the way for a better alternative than Taliban. Vicky In terms
of the human toll of all of this, your organization estimates 97%
of Afghanistan is at risk or already in poverty. How are Afghan families?
What kind of measures are they having to take to try and survive
now?
Sure, Many families are dealing with very negative coping mechanisms
like they're having to send their Children to work for sell their
daughters into marriage. I mean, we've even seen an increase of people
selling body parts like kidneys. Um many of the men are trying to
migrate, risking their lives to get into places like Iran to find
work to support their families. And this leaves the women alone in
Afghanistan and how are we to reach them? If we don't have females?
Staff. I see you nodding and I wonder.
You are someone who has fought for this country you have survived.
Assassination attempts have been shot at because of your country
and because of your vision for it.
What is this moment like? We're hearing everything that Vicki just
said.
Yeah, heartbreaking. It is really heartbreaking. I'm specialist.
Sometimes I don't have words to express my feelings because let's
not forget what is happening in Afghanistan against woman as because
said if the male members are going to work, then the woman member
of the family cannot get out of their house without Muharram, which
is a male company, and I lost my husband in in in into this world.
I lost my brothers. I don't literally have any man in my family.
So I was enough. If I was in Afghanistan. I could not get out of
my house until I don't find them are, um, where
Shall I find them A mill Muharram. These are so illogical, And I
think there is no logic to their decision. It's just showing the
face of the real image. Taliban has kufi and Vicky again. We thank
you so much for your time. We know how busy you are. Thank you for
your work.