Judy: The January 6 committee
preparest of -- preparest vote
-- prepares to vote on
recommending criminal charges
against the former president.
Congress tries to avoid a
government shutdown, and the
front-runner to be the next
speaker of the house still does
not have a clear path to the
gavel.
With all that's swirling in
Washington, we go to the
analysis of brooks and Capehart.
That's New York Times columnist
David brooks and Jonathan
Capehart, associate editor for
the Washington post.
Hello to both of you on this
Friday night.
So much to pack into the next 12
minutes.
Jonathan, I am going to you
first.
We just talked about the January
6 committee on Monday, the wide
reports tonight they are going
to recommend criminal referrals
to the justice department
against former president trump.
Serious charges.
What is your reaction?
What do you make of it?
David: My initial reaction is,
good.
We have to understand that these
criminal referrals, they go to
the justice department.
The justice department doesn't
have to do anything with them.
They might very well just be
symbolic, but I do think it is
important for the American
people to see at least some
branch of the government taking
proactive action to hold the
former president accountable for
what he did, for his actions on
January 6.
There was contention over the
summer whether the committee
would even go this route, would
even go this far.
To see them take this action, or
they will take this action on
Monday, it is a terrific sign.
Judy: Not surprised, but what
does this say to you?
David: They have been walking up
to this.
The whole extent of the hearings
, it was about obstruction,
insurrection, conspiracy to
defraud, and of those or
possibly three of the charges
they will recommend.
This was the logical conclusion.
Will it lead the to press
charges?
I don't know, but I wouldn't
count on it.
I think the justice department
works by their own logic.
They are very different from the
legislative branch and they will
do what they do.
I don't think it will be a huge
push either way.
But it is having a political
effect.
I was struck by a usa today poll
where they asked Republicans, do
you want Donald Trump?
By a two to one margin, they
want trump by a to the one
margin, they want trumpism, but
not trump.
A lot of that is fallout from
the midterms.
A lot of the January 6 stuff is
having an effect after a long
time on Republican voters.
Judy: Is it a blow to the
committee if John just it --
if justice does not go ahead and
charges based on these
referrals?
Jonathan: I don't think it will
be a blow to the committee, but
if the justice department does
not take action with all of the
evidence that the committee has
presented to the American
people, not to mention the
evidence that the justice
department on its own possibly
collected in its various
investigations into what
happened on January 6, that
would be more disappointing.
The committee served its
purpose.
It investigated, it interviewed
more than 1000 witnesses, it put
on compelling hearings for the
American people in ways that the
American people could listen,
digest, understand, and learn
about how close their government
came to teetering at the
instigation of the former
president.
I think whether the justice
department moves on those
referrals or not, I think the
committee has been a success.
It was very important what they
did, not just for educating the
American people, but for
history's sake.
Judy: How much do you think it
matters whether justice goes
ahead, as a statement about the
significance of this committee?
David: I don't think it reflects
the significance of the
committee, but I think it will
change the country if we have a
criminal case against a former
president.
That will be a massive effect.
And I think on what the
committee revealed to us, the
one big take away is that there
really was a trump structure
behind what happened on January
6.
I think walking in he
instigated, he gave the
inflammatory speeches, then a
lot of people marched.
But there was more to it than
that.
To me, that is the nexus of what
looks to me like a nonlawyer
like criminal activity.
Judy: David touched on a pole
this week about the former
president, and I want to tie
that to the poll that the
newshour did collaborating with
NPR, asking people not only
about president Biden's
approval, which is up a little
bit at 43%, but in each party,
Democrats were asked about
whether they think Joe Biden
should be the nominee in 2024.
Republicans were asked the same
question about former president
trump.
Biden, 35% of Democrats think he
should be the nominee.
For trump, 45%.
What does that tell us?
Jonathan: On the Republican
side, it tells us that even
though trump's standing within
the party seems to be waning, it
is not waning as much as a lot
of people think.
The fact that 45% of Republicans
would like for him to be the
nominee says he is still very
strong and that Democrats should
not underestimate him, that he
says he's running, he made an
announcement.
We have not seen a lot of him on
the campaign trail.
Maybe he is saving the energy
for 2023.
But we will see if Ron Desantis
jumps into the race, whether
governor Abbott of Texas,
whether he jumps into the race,
governor sununu in New Hampshire
jumps into the race.
Then we will see how much
staying power Donald Trump has.
As for president Biden, the fact
that 35% of Democrats want him
to run for reelection doesn't
tell me a whole lot because
Democrats have been wringing
their hands about president
Biden since the man took the
oath of office, and I would like
for all of them to chill out.
He is just two years into the
first term.
Let the man do his job.
And when he does his job, as we
have seen over this last year
alone, the dude gets stuff done.
Stop the handwringing, let him
do his job, and let him decide
whether he wants to run for
reelection, which I think he
will.
Judy: What do you think?
David: I am with Jonathan.
Democratic voters can be a pain
in the rear end.
He has passed a lot of
legislation, masterfully
orchestrated an effort against
Russia.
She has more or less won the
midterms.
What more do you want?
So he is older than some people,
but he has had a successful
presidency as far as I can tell.
This is not just about Joe
Biden, this is something in the
DNA of the democratic party I
have never really understood,
why they can't be loyal to a guy
who is their guy.
Judy: We heard it from both of
you, chill.
And why can't you calm down?
Let's talk about congress.
Jonathan, today they voted to
keep the government funded for
another entire week.
What are you looking to see
happen?
Do you think this will get fixed
before the end of the year or
not?
Jonathan: I don't know.
That is one of two dramas on
capitol hill leading to the end
of this year.
They have to come up with an
omnibus bill, a big package that
they can pass that will fund the
government through the fiscal
year, through the end of
September.
The house comes back on the
21st.
The goal is for the senate to
vote on this omnibus package on
the 22nd, then the house vote on
it on the 23rd, which is the
deadline.
We are used to these tight rope
walks at the end of the year
with congress pushing up against
deadlines, but I think what
makes this even more treacherous
than previous tight rope walks
is the new congress that comes
in has a Republican majority
that doesn't even know who it
speaker is going to be and is
filled with a lot of people who
aren't interested in governing.
They are interested in tearing
things down.
It would behoove this current
congress to get it done so it is
off the table for the next
congress.
Judy: What do the next few weeks
look like to you?
David: Scintillating.
[Laughter]
I don't think the government
will shut down.
We went through that period in
1995 where there were serious
shutdowns.
I think both parties concluded
it hurts them both and the
country hates it when
the government shuts down.
I think they will model through.
The bad part is we are
muddling.
A lot of people are stressing
over this ai thing that looks
like the biggest event of the
year.
It shows how much society is
changing so quickly.
And we seem to have a government
that cannot adapt to that.
We have a government that is
essentially run by pots
dependents.
We take whatever we were
spending on last year, and we
just do it again.
You don't see a lot of
adaptation.
You see these emergency spending
bills that have no sense of
priorities, which every
organization would have.
It is the constituencies getting
the money or more of the money,
but without any sort of mind
behind it.
It is government by cludge
.
If that is a word.
Judy: We just made it a word.
Do you want to weigh in?
David said essentially congress
is not doing anything right now.
They are clearly passing some
legislation.
It is not that they have done
nothing, but they are having
real trouble with these spending
decisions.
Jonathan: Right, they are, also
because there's a lot of
pressure coming from the house
on the senate to not do anything
on the omnibus bill.
I want to go back to something
on the NPR poll that illuminates
what David is talking about.
The number one issue voters said
was important to them was
inflation.
Number two was threats to
democracy.
Yet the incoming congress, the
incoming Republican majority,
has made it clear their number
one priority is investigations
and also impeachments.
There is a disconnect between
what the American people want to
congress to focus on and what
the incoming majority says it is
going to focus on.
As long as there is that
disconnect, congress will keep
muddling through, as David says,
in the eyes of the people.
Judy: Connect that to the fact
that Kevin Mccarthy is not
finding a very easy path to the
speakership of the house.
David: It is a fractious party,
but it is more than that.
Whatever you think of Kevin
Mccarthy, he probably won't be
the greatest speaker on Earth.
I think he probably will be the
speaker.
He campaigns for other
Republicans.
He is part of the team and
politics is a team sport, so
that means you give and get.
You look at the people opposing
him on the Republican side.
They raised almost no money for
their party, they did no
campaigning, so they are not
members of a team.
They are not team players.
There is a rise of almost
nihilism in the party of people
who will not be team players.
If you are not willing to serve
the institution, not willing to
serve your party, you are
undermining your party in a big
way.
Judy: On this very uplifting
note, we are going to thank both
of you.
David brooks, Jonathan Capehart,
thank you.
[Laughter]