VULNERABLE PEOPLE AT LEAST, ARE
ABLE TO LEAVE THE CITY.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, RICHARD
ENGEL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR
EVERYTHING YOU'RE DOING. JOINING US IS FORMER NATO
JOINING US IS FORMER NATO
SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER, ADD
ADMIRAL, FIRST OF ALL THIS
MORNING YOU SAID EVERYTHING
NEEDS TO BE ON THE TABLE,
INCLUDING MIGS, BACK FILLING
M-16s THAT WERE SUPPOSED TO GO
TO TAIWAN, A NO FLY ZONE?
>> I THINK THE IMAGES WE'RE
SEEING FROM OUR VERY BRAVE
COLLEAGUE, RICHARD ENGEL ARE
REMARKABLE IF THEIR TRAGIC
DIMENSIONS, AND THEREFORE, WE
NEED TO CONTINUE TO PRESS TO GET
WEAPONS IN THE HANDS OF
UKRAINIANS, MOVE NATO FORCES TO
THE BORDERS OF NATO TO SEND A
STRONG SIGNAL TO PUTIN, UP THE
ANTE ON THESE ECONOMIC
SANCTIONS.
I THINK OVER TIME THAT PACKAGE
WILL BEGIN TO CHANGE THE
CALCULUS.
HERE'S WHAT WORRIES ME.
WE'RE AT A PIVOT POINT IN THIS
WAR.
IT BEGAN WITH A MODERN WARFARE
BLITZKRIEG ATTEMPT BY THE
RUSSIANS.
WHERE WE ARE NOW IS HEADED BACK
TO 15th CENTURY WARFARE,
REDUCING CITIES TO RUBBLE.
IT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE SYRIA IF
HE'S ALLOWED TO CONTINUE.
THE TRAGEDY WILL JUST GROW AND
GROW AND GROW.
>> OBVIOUSLY, THAT CREATES THE
RISK THE PRESIDENT SAYS OF,
QUOTE, WORLD WAR III OF NATO
ENGAGEMENT.
HOW DO YOU, AS A FORMER, YOU
KNOW, SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER,
SOMEONE WHO RAN THE WAR IN
AFGHANISTAN, KNOWS WHAT THE
RISKS ARE GOING UP AGAINST THE
RUSSIANS IN PARTICULAR, HOW DO
YOU DEAL WITH THAT?
>> I THINK WE NEED TO NOT THINK
ABOUT THIS LIKE AN ON AND OFF
SWITCH AS THOUGH OUR CHOICES ARE
WE JUST DO NOTHING OR WE RAMP UP
EVERYTHING.
IT'S -- YOU DIAL IT IN, YOU
INCREASE THE PRESSURE ON RUSSIA,
AND I THINK A COUPLE OF
IMMEDIATE THINGS WOULD BE UPPING
THE ANTE ON THE ANTI-AIR WARFARE
SIDE OF THIS, MORE SYSTEMS THAT
CAN REACH HIGHER INTO THE
ATMOSPHERE AND I THINK YOU NEED
TO CONTINUE TO LOOK AT THIS IDEA
OF JETS.
I UNDERSTAND IT'S COMPLICATED.
I THINK IT WOULD BE A HUGE
MORALE BOOST FOR THE UKRAINIANS,
SEND A STRONG SIGNAL AND I THINK
WE CAN DO IT IN A WAY THAT
DOESN'T PROVOKE US INTO DIRECT
COMBAT WITH RUSSIA.
>> WE TRAIN THEM BECAUSE AS I
UNDERSTAND IT, THEY WERE NOT
REALLY TRAINED ON MIG 29s AND
THEN GET THEM TO POLAND NOT RAM
STEIN AND THE U.S. AS THE GO
BETWEEN?
>> I THINK ALL OPTIONS OUGHT TO
BE ON THE TABLE.
WHEN I SAW JAKE SULLIVAN, WHO I
THINK IS DOING A TERRIFIC JOB IN
A VERY HARD SPOT.
WHEN I SAW HIM ON "MEET THE
PRESS," I WAS ON THAT SHOW ALSO,
AS YOU KNOW, HE SPECIFICALLY
SAID WE'RE NOT GOING TO
TELEGRAPH WHAT WE'RE GOING TO
DO.
WE ARE GOING TO TAKE APPROPRIATE
ACTION IN RESPONSE TO RUSSIAN
ACTIVITIES.
AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE LEVEL
OF TERROR THAT THE RUSSIANS ARE
SPREADING, THIS IS NOT AN ARMY
AT WORK.
THIS IS A TERRORIST FORCE
INCREASEINGLY ATTACKING WOMEN,
CHILDREN, MATERNITY WARDS,
DESTROYING A NUCLEAR POWER
PLANT, REPORTED MOMENTS AGO
ANOTHER EXPLOSION NEAR A NUCLEAR
POWER PLANT.
MAYORS BEING HAULED OUT OF
CITIES.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING FROM
THE UKRAINE FROM THE RUSSIAN
ARMED FORCES THESE ARE WAR
CRIMES.
>> THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT IS
REPORTING THE ATTACK ON THAT
MILITARY BASE WAS CRUISE
MISSILES LAUNCHED FROM RUSSIAN
AIR BASE.
>> INDEED, LOOK FOR RUSSIA,
BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT HAVING
SUCCESS IN THE GROUND FIGHT
AGAINST THE UKRAINIANS, WHO ARE
DEFENDING THEIR NATION
REMARKABLY, AND THEIR SPIRIT AND
FIGHTING WILL HAVE BECOME THE
CENTER OF GRAVITY IN THIS FIGHT.
THE RUSSIANS, THEREFORE, ARE
USING LONG-RANGE FIRES, CRUISE
MISSILES, ARTILLERY AND THEY'RE
DIRECTING IT ALMOST
INDISCRIMINATELY.
>> I WAS TALKING TO A FORMER
MILITARY OFFICIAL WHO SAID, JUST
LOOK AT THE WAY THEY'RE DOING THIS ON THE GROUND.
THIS ON THE GROUND.
NO NIGHT VISION GOGGLES, NO
POSITION, DUMB BOMBS RATHER THAN
PRECISION WEAPONS.
IT TELLS YOU HOW DEGRADED THEIR
TRAINING IS AND EQUIPMENT.
>> INDEED.
I SPENT FOUR YEARS SHALL WE SAY
CLOSELY OBSERVING THE RUSSIAN
MILITARY, AND I WATCHED THEM
GRADUALLY IMPROVE, IMPROVE BUT
OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS CLEARLY
THEY HAVE GONE OVER A NEGATIVE
EDGE IN THE SENSE THAT THEIR
LOGISTICS ARE TERRIBLE.
THEY CAN'T GET FOOD AND FUEL AND
HEAT FORWARD TO THEIR TROOPS.
THEY HAVE BAD CONNECTIVITY AND
COMMAND AND CONTROL.
AND ABOVE ALL, THEIR MORALE
SEEMS VERY WEAK.
THESE ARE CONSCRIPTS, RESERVISTS
RESERVISTS, IT'S NOT THE FORCE
THAT MANY OF US THOUGHT RUSSIA
WAS AIMING FOR, AND I THINK
PUTIN HAS MISCALCULATED.
>> THE PRESIDENT DREW A RED LINE
IF THERE'S A CHEMICAL WEAPONS
ATTACK.
WHAT KIND OF RESPONSE COULD HE
HAVE TO A CHEMICAL WEAPON
ATTACK?
>> SOME OF THE THINGS WE TALKED
ABOUT, PUTTING IN PLACE A NO FLY
ZONE, I WOULDN'T RECOMMEND IT AT
THIS MOMENT BUT INCREASING THE
MEASURES TO THE UKRAINIANS AND
ON THE ECONOMIC SIDE THERE'S
STILL ADDITIONAL SANCTIONS
PACKAGES, SO CALLED SECONDARY
SANCTIONS ON NATIONS THAT WOULD
CONTINUE TO DEAL WITH RUSSIA.
SO WE STILL HAVE CARDS TO PLAY
HERE.
>> AND OUR WHITE HOUSE TEAM IS
REPORTING THAT THE PRESIDENT IS
CONSIDERING, ACCORDING TO STAFF
OVER THERE, CONSIDERING A TRIP
TO THE BORDER NATO STATES, AS
WELL AS PERHAPS BRUSSELS.
>> THAT WOULD BE WARRANTED.
ONE SILVER LINING COMING OUT OF
THE SEA OF TRAGEDY IN FRONT OF
US IS THE WAY THE WEST, THE NATO
ALLIANCE AND JAPAN AND OTHER
DEMOCRATIC ALLIES WERE STANDING
TOGETHER.
THAT'S A POSITIVE.