geoff: After the series of
controversies involving supreme
court justice Clarence Thomas,
senate Democrats are exploring
the possibility of introducing
their own ethical code for
justices.
To discuss the court and other
news, we turn to the analysis of
New York Times columnist and the
associate editor of the
Washington post.
Let's start with the new
reporting this week that
billionaire Republican donor
Harlan crow paid the monthly
private boarding school tuition
for the grandnephew of justice
Clarence Thomas, who Thomas was
racing as his son.
This was another gift the
justice did not disclose.
Leonard Leo proactively him
scared a $25,000 payment to
Clarence Thomas' wife, ginni
Thomas, racing the issue of
supreme court reform.
In the absence of a code, it is
said congress should step in.
>> I do not see anything wrong
with that.
Congress has ethics laws, rules
and regulations it has to abide
by in if the supreme court does
not.
I think it was a missed
opportunity by the chief justice
to not accept senator Durbin's
invitation to meet with the
committee, talk with the
committee so at least through
the committee of the American
people can understand where the
justices are coming from in
terms of their resistance to any
kind of accountability.
As we see story after story, you
just catalogued, who knows what
Republicans will come out with
next week.
It seems like there is a branch
of government that is
unaccountable to the American
people, to anyone and is
actively resisting it.
I think the longer they do that,
the more popular sentiment will
be -- actually, congress, do
something about this.
Geoff: One thing we heard from
Democrats this week is the
highest court in the land should
not have the lowest ethical
standards.
>> First I should say I have
been friends with Harlan crow
for about 20 years.
I find him a wonderful man.
Your viewers should know that is
my connection.
So that is disclosure.
And that is what I wish Clarence
Thomas had done.
Viewers know I like Harlan crow.
Clarence Thomas should say I
trust the citizens of this
country so I will disclose my
connection and that is that.
As F F going forwardrdi confess
I am a little concerned about
congress doing it.
A, they are polarized.
B, I'm not concerned about their
own ethical standards.
They go diving for dollars and
they do nasty fundraising.
I do think the court should take
advantage of this moment and say
, ok, there is a problem here
and we will put disclosure in
and make it clear things like a
gift from Leonard lilo --
Leonard Leo, who unlike Roman
crow, actually has business
before the court.
It is an opportunity to be clear
and make stricter rules and make
the court a more trusted
institution.
Geoff: In the senate hearing
this past week, it made clear a
code of conduct if congress does
act, it will not be a bipartisan
congressional effort because
Republicans accused Democrats of
casting doubt on the court
because the court has not been
ruling in Democrats' favor.
How might this play out?
>> [Laughter]
My reaction to that is that is
pretty incredible.
Congress is not having this
conversation because of the
Dobbs really.
Not having this because of
Shelby V. Holder or citizens
united, congress is having this
conversation because there is a
supreme court justice that has
undisclosed relationships and
gifts, for lack of a better
description, from someone he is
friends with.
That is why we are having this
conversation.
This is not about a
partisanship.
This is about having one of the
branches of government be
transparent and they are
actively resisting being
transparent.
Geoff: The supreme court's
power, as written in the
federalist papers, derives from
the public's belief that the
court is administering the law
in an impartial manner.
There is a recentpoll that found
that 62% have little to no
confidence in the supreme court.
The findings typically aligned
with political party but this is
a historic lack of trust.
>> I think the need to be
proactive on this.
It is in my opinion having
watched the court -- not as a
professional, I do not cover the
court much -- in my view, they
do not do quid pro quo.
I find them to be remarkable
people both Democrats and
Republicans.
I do not think their decisions
are influenced by money and
corruption.
I think they are overly
influenced by partisanship and I
find it disturbing you can
predict how a justice will vote
depending on how you dominated
them.
I think you have become too
ideological.
That is a problem, not too
corrupt.
I think the public's distrust is
unmerited.
You should be suspicious of all
concentrated power.
I think the courts function
reasonably well.
Geoff: Let's talk about the debt
limit debate.
We have about a month left for
lawmakers to raise the debt
limit to cap the nation from
defaulting and disrupting the
global economy.
President Biden is set to meet
with congressional leaders to
talk about this.
He insists it will only accept a
bill with no strings attached
and is dismissing Republicans'
demands for spending cuts.
>> I think the president is
absolutely right.
The president should not be
negotiating over the full faith
credit of the U.S.
What they should do when they
get into that room, they should
agree right then and there,
there will be a clean debt
ceiling vote let the same time
negotiations begin right now on
a budget.
The president released his
budget last month.
Speaker Mccarthy is having this
limit -- his debt ceiling act
sort of is masquerading as a
budget.
If you want to take a
sledgehammer to the federal
budget, sit down with the
president and negotiate.
His priorities are out there in
print.
Where are yours, speaker
Mccarthy?
Beyond the cuts he broadly said
he wants to do.
Specific conversation should be
happening simultaneously.
But the debt ceiling must be
raised.
Geoff: How concerned should
Americans be that this will not
happen in time?
Some Republicans privately say
they do not think Kevin Mccarthy
can introduce a clean bill and
keep his speakership.
>> They should be concerned.
I do think Biden will negotiate.
That will be the reality.
I have noticed in congress some
moves to make it easier for us
to solve this crisis without
having a blowup.
That is not to say all warnings
are often we should relax but I
think there has been some slow
movement.
The Republicans are wrong and
that we should have a budget
negotiation -- we should not
have a negotiation.
In my view, the Republicans are
right that we have put on a big
spending bench over the last
five years because of covid and
other things what our deficits
are way too high.
They are fueling inflation that
is way too high.
They are fueling inflation.
It is good government to think
we have to cut some spending and
raise some taxes.
The Republicans are not entirely
wrong.
Geoff: What lessons should
lawmakers have learned from what
happened in 2011?
A catastrophic downgrading.
>> What they should have learned
is to not do this.
Do not do this.
Do not have this skirmish.
Also, Republicans did not have a
problem raising the debt ceiling
when Donald Trump was president
and did not have a problem
running up trillions of dollars
in debt when Donald Trump was
president.
Their sudden fiscal -- I find
offputting.
Geoff: Let's talk about
artificial intelligence.
It was stunning to hear the
godfather of ai talk about the
perils, the potential for
machines to take over.
What you see as not just
apparels but the process?
>> I decided ai is important so
I spend about four or five hours
a day on it.
I always walk in thinking about
ai.
I came in thinking that ai was
kind of important and may as big
as mobile.
Now I think it is the industrial
revolution.
It will have pervasive effects
on our workplace.
With outcome great dangers.
What he talked about was the
idea that it will have agency
and its own desires that will
overrule our own desires.
He is a lot smarter than I am.
It also has great opportunities
for us to make us all better at
our jobs.
In 1997, early primitive ai beat
a chess champion.
Did chess go away?
No, the chess grandmasters
trained themselves on ai so
chess are way better because of
ai.
We will have great opportunities
to be better at our jobs with
slight peril that it will take
over the Earth.
[Laughter]
Geoff: Are you concerned or
excited?
>> I am a little of both.
Listening to the interview, I
thought is that this how the
movie "Terminator" started?
I will take David at his word
that it is a tool we should
relish.
Geoff: Jonathan and David, thank
you.
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