>>> WELCOME BACK.
NOW TO AN EXCLUSIVE.
MANY PARTS OF AMERICA ARE OF
COURSE CLOSED FOR THIS PANDEMIC,
FROM BUSINESS TO SPORTS TO EVEN
LOCAL SERVICE LIKE STATE AND
LOCAL COURTS.
BUT THE SUPREME COURT IS OPEN.
IT IS A CENTRAL PART OF
GOVERNMENT THAT CONFRONTS ISSUES
THAT WILL NOT WAIT.
THEY RULED ON WHETHER TO SPARE
OR GREEN LIGHT EXECUTIONS OR
WHETHER TO FORCE THE RELEASE OF
DONALD TRUMP’S TAX RETURNS.
THE COURT TACKLED THAT VERY CASE
THIS WEEK.
OR HOW THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE
MUST FUNCTION, OR TACKLING THESE
BIG OBAMACARE LAWSUITS, OR
DECIDING WHETHER KEY POLITICAL
CONVICTIONS STAND.
THE COURT NOW ISSUING A HUGE
RULING ON THAT INFAMOUS
BRIDGEGATE SCANDAL, THE PAYBACK
CONTROVERSY THAT EXPLODED INSIDE
NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR CHRIS
CHRISTIE’S ADMINISTRATION AS HE
WAS PREPPING A PRESIDENTIAL RUN.
I’M SURE YOU REMEMBER THE BIG
PICTURE OF IT.
KEY OFFICIALS SHUT DOWN LANES ON
THE WORLD’S BUSIEST BRIDGE
CREATING NOT ONLY MASSIVE
TRAFFIC BACK IN 2013, BUT SOME
RISK TO THE CITIZENS THEY WERE
SUPPOSED TO SERVE.
IT WAS A REVENGE PLOT TO PUNISH
A DEMOCRAT THAT CHRISTIE WAS MAD
AT.
NOW TONIGHT WE HAVE AN EXCLUSIVE
FOR YOU ON THIS STORY GIVEN A
SET OF NEW COURT DOCUMENTS IN
THIS SCANDAL, WHICH OF COURSE
SET OFF A MEMORABLE NATIONAL
FUROR.
>> TONIGHT HOW A TRAFFIC
NIGHTMARE ON THE WORLD’S BUSIEST
BRIDGE HAS SPIRALED INTO A
FULL-BLOWN SCANDAL WITH THE
POWER TO DAMAGE CHRIS CHRISTIE’S
POLITICAL FUTURE.
>> NOW TO THE GROWING FALLOUT
FOR NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR CHRIS
CHRISTIE.
TONIGHT NEW DETAILS HOW MUCH HIS
AIDES KNEW ABOUT THAT MASSIVE
TRAFFIC JAM ON THE GEORGE
WASHINGTON BRIDGE.
>> NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR CHRIS
CHRISTIE RIGHT THERE RESPONDING
TO THE BRIDGE SCANDAL ROCKING
HIS ADMINISTRATION, RAISING
QUESTIONS ABOUT THE IMPACT ON A
POSSIBLE PRESIDENTIAL RUN IN
2016.
>> IF THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY IS
BEING RUN IN SUCH A WAY THAT
CONTROL OF INTERSTATE ASSETS IS
BEING MANIPULATED ON PURPOSE TO
PUNISH SPECIFIC TOWNS, THAT IS
PUBLIC CORRUPTION.
>> AND THAT ALLEGED PUBLIC
CORRUPTION FUNDAMENTALLY ALTERED
CHRISTIE’S POLITICAL CAREER AND
IT RAISED THORNY QUESTIONS OF
POLITICAL LAW FOR THAT FORMER
PROSECUTOR TURNED GOVERNOR, LIKE
WHAT DID HE KNOW.
NOW INDEPENDENT PROSECUTORS
POUNCED.
EVIDENCE EMERGED LIKE AN
INFAMOUS EMAIL A MONTH BEFORE
THIS ALL WENT DOWN BY CHRISTIE’S
AIDE BRIDGET KELLY SAYING TIME
FOR SOME TRAFFIC PROBLEMS IN
FORT LEE.
KELLY AND ANOTHER TOP CHRISTIE
APPOINTEE BILL BARONI WERE
CONVICTED ON CHARGE AND
CONSPIRACY CHARGES FOR THE
SCHEME.
IT’S NOT GOING TO END THERE.
THE APPEALS WOUND UP IN THE
COURTS AND THE OFFICIALS TOOK
THEIR CASE ALL THE WAY TO THE
SUPREME COURT, WHICH OF COURSE
AS YOU PROBABLY KNOW DOESN’T
HEAR MOST CASES, BUT THEY TOOK
IT.
AND THAT WAS A SIGN RIGHT THERE
THERE WAS SOME SORT OF
LEGITIMATE LEGAL DEBATE OVER
THESE ISSUES.
NOW IN AN ERA WHERE MANY
POLITICAL CASES ARE POLARIZED ON
THE COURT WITH NARROW RULINGS,
YOU’VE HEARD ABOUT THEM, 5-4, WE
COVER THEM, HERE IS THE BIG
NEWS.
THE SUPREME COURT CAME TOGETHER
WITH A UNANIMOUS RULING, 9-0.
DID THEY UPHOLD THE TOUGH
APPROACH TO THAT PAYBACK SCANDAL
THAT WAS COMMITTED BASICALLY IN
BROAD DAYLIGHT?
NO.
THE COURT JUST RULING THE
PROSECUTORS WENT TOO FAR BECAUSE
KELLY AND BROKEN ANY DID NOT
COMMIT ACTUAL CRIMES INVOLVING
MONEY OR PROPERTIES TO SUPPORT
THOSE CHARGES OF PROPERTY FRAUD.
THAT WAS A BIG LEGAL VICTORY AND
DEVELOPMENT.
OBAMA POINTED JUSTICE ELENA
KAGAN WRITING "FEDERAL FRAUD
STATUTES DO NOT CRIMINALIZE THE
CONDUCT AT ISSUE."
THIS IS A BIG CASE.
IT HAS SO MANY IMPLICATIONS, AND
JOINING US NOW FOR AN EXCLUSIVE
INTERVIEW IS FORMER NEW JERSEY
SENATOR AND DEPUTY EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR OF THE PORT AUTHORITY,
THE MAN WHO WENT TO PRISON FOR
HIS ROLE IN THIS BRIDGEGATE
SCANDAL, BILL BARONI.
THANK YOU FOR COMING ON "THE
BEAT" TO REALLY BREAK YOUR
SILENCE, SIR.
>> HEY, ARI.
HOW ARE YOU?
>> I’M ALL RIGHT.
I KNOW THERE IS A LOT TO TALK
ABOUT, INCLUDING YOUR TIME IN
PRISON AND THE POLICY IDEAS YOU
HAVE.
SO I WANT TO GET TO THAT.
BUT THIS IS THE NEWS.
THIS IS A BIG NEWS STORY.
WHAT DOES THIS NEW RULING MEAN
TO YOU?
>> WELL, I THINK AS YOU JUST
MENTIONED, ARI, IT IS HISTORIC
TO HAVE AT A TIME OF GREAT
POLARIZATION ON THE SUPREME
COURT BOTH THE LIBERAL WING OF
THE COURT AND THE CONSERVATIVE
WING OF THE COURT ISSUING A
UNANIMOUS DECISION.
THAT’S HISTORIC.
BUT FOR ME AND MY FAMILY AND
FRIENDS, THIS HAS BEEN A
SEVEN-YEAR SAGA OF AN
INVESTIGATION, INDICTMENT, A
TRIAL, AN APPEAL, GOING INTO
PRISON, COMING OUT OF PRISON,
AND GOING AND WINNING IN THE
SUPREME COURT.
SO THIS HAS BEEN A LONG ROAD
THAT I’VE BEEN ON FOR SEVEN
YEARS LEADING UP TO THE DECISION
LAST WEEK BY THE COURT.
>> YOU KNOW, GOVERNOR CHRISTIE
FAMOUSLY DENIED ANY ROLE IN ALL
OF THIS.
LET’S REMIND EVERYONE.
TAKE A LOOK.
>> I HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OR
INVOLVEMENT IN THIS ISSUE, IN
ITS PLANNING OR ITS EXECUTION,
AND I AM STUNNED BY THE ABJECT
STUPIDITY THAT WAS SHOWN HERE.
I HAVE 65,000 PEOPLE WORKING FOR
ME EVERY DAY, AND I CANNOT KNOW
WHAT EACH ONE OF THEM IS DOING
AT EVERY MINUTE.
BUT THAT DOESN’T MATTER.
I’M ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR
WHAT THEY DO.
>> WAS HIS CLAIM AND DENIAL
TRUE?
AND DOES CHRIS CHRISTIE IN YOUR
VIEW BEAR RESPONSIBILITY FOR
WHAT WAS DONE?
>> WELL, ARI, AS THE ONE PERSON
WHO WENT TO PRISON FOR
BRIDGEGATE, I THINK I’LL -- I
THINK I’LL LET OTHERS COME TO
THEIR OWN CONCLUSIONS ABOUT THE
GOVERNOR’S STATEMENTS.
>> WELL, BRIDGET KELLY, WHO ALSO
PAID A PRICE, WE MENTIONED,
SHE’S PUBLICLY INSISTED CHRISTIE
KNEW ABOUT THE LANE CLOSINGS AS
SHE HAPPENED.
IS SHE TELLING THE TRUTH, DO YOU
THINK?
>> WELL, I THINK YOU SAW DURING
THE TRIAL THERE WERE A NUMBER OF
WITNESSES WHO TESTIFIED ABOUT
THE GOVERNOR’S KNOWLEDGE AT
VARIOUS TIMES OF THE BRIDGE
CLOSURE AND THAT BRIDGET IS SMUN
WHO WENT THROUGH THAT WITH ME.
WE LIVED THROUGH THAT
TWO-MONTH-LONG TRIAL.
IT’S BEEN A DIFFICULT TIME.
>> SO YOU DON’T HAVE ANY REASON
TO DOUBT WHAT SHE ASSERTS?
>> NO.
A NUMBER OF PEOPLE, BRIDGET,
MYSELF, A NUMBER OF OTHER
WITNESSES ALL TESTIFIED THAT THE
GOVERNOR KNEW DURING THE
CLOSURES.
>> SO FOR PEOPLE WATCHING, HERE
YOU ARE, YOU WENT TO JAIL FOR
THIS.
NOW THE SUPREME COURT OVERTURNS
IT.
SHOULD THERE BE IN YOUR VIEW ANY
LARGE ERECT CONNING FOR CHRIS
CHRISTIE BASED ON WHAT YOU JUST
SAID?
>> WELL, I TELL YOU, I’M NOT SO
MUCH FOCUSED ON GOVERNOR
CHRISTIE.
I HAVEN’T SPOKEN TO HIM IN MORE
THAN SEVEN YEARS.
WHAT I’M FOCUSED ON IS WHAT I
LEARNED IN THE TIME THAT I HAD
TO GO TO PRISON.
I DIDN’T WAKE UP ONE MORNING AND
LOOK FORWARD TO IT, BUT I
PREPARED AS MUCH AS I COULD, AND
I SPENT TIME IN LORETTO FEDERAL
PRISON, BECAUSE FOR ME I NEVER
DREAMED THE SUPREME COURT OF THE
UNITED STATES WOULD TAKE THIS
CASE.
YOU KNOW, ARI, THE PERCENTAGE
CHANCES OF THAT ARE VERY, VERY
SMALL.
>> SURE.
>> AND I HAVE OLDER PARENTS.
I MADE THE DECISION TO GO IN AND
GET IT OVER WITH.
SO EARLY IN 2019, I WENT INTO
LORETTO PRISON.
AND MY FOCUS SINCE THEN, AND
WHEN I GOT OUT, WHEN THE SUPREME
COURT TOOK THE CASE AND UP UNTIL
EARLIER THIS AFTERNOON, HELPING
PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE PRISON
SYSTEM.
>> RIGHT.
>> ESPECIALLY NOW DURING THE
CORONAVIRUS CRISIS THAT WE HAVE
IN ALL OF OUR PRISONS ACROSS THE
COUNTRY.
>> AND LET’S GET TO THAT,
BECAUSE THAT’S SOMETHING WE’VE
COVERED A LOT.
I WANT TO GET INTO THAT.
I ONE MORE PIECE OF CHRIS
CHRISTIE BUSINESS, ONE MORE
SOUND BITE FOR YOU, AND THEN
WE’LL MOVE PAST THAT.
FOR THE RECORD, GIVEN EVERYTHING
THAT’S GONE ON, YOU UNDERSTAND
THE PUBLIC INTEREST IN AND THIS
AND NOW THE COURT RULING.
GOVERNOR CHRISTIE PUBLICLY CITED
YOU SAYING WHEN ANOTHER STAFFER
WILDSTEIN DID THIS WITH YOUR
APPROVAL.
I WANT TO GIVE YOU THE BENEFIT
OF BREAKING YOUR SILENCE IN
PUBLIC, NOW THAT YOU’RE BREAKING
YOUR SILENCE.
HERE IS WHAT CHRIS CHRISTIE
SAID.
>> I DON’T KNOW.
I DON’T KNOW.
I MEAN, LISTEN, UP TO THIS POINT
IN TIME, UP TO THE EMAILS
RELEASED YESTERDAY, IT WAS
SENATOR BROKENARONE’S TESTIMONY
MR. WILDSTEIN INITIATED WITH HIS
APPROVAL.
>> IS THAT TRUE?
>> ARI, I THINK IT CAME ACROSS
VERY CLEARLY THAT GOVERNOR
CHRISTIE’S VIEW OF WHAT
HAPPENED, OUR CASE PLAYED ITSELF
OUT IN THE COURTROOM.
DAVID WILDSTEIN, PROSECUTORS
HAVE ALL SAID CAME UP WITH THIS
IDEA, AND, YOU KNOW, SEVEN YEARS
LATER, I HAD TO GO TO THE
SUPREME COURT TO GET THOSE
CONVICTIONS OVERTURNED.
>> AND I WANT TO READ FROM THE
COURT OF OPINION AGAIN, BECAUSE
IT IS STRIKING, AS MENTIONED.
IT’S 9-0, AND IT SAYS VERY
CLEARLY THAT YOU AND THESE OTHER
INDIVIDUALS AS REPORTED DID NOT
COMMIT A CRIME.
THAT’S IMPORTANT IN THE PUBLIC
RECORD, AND WE CERTAINLY HAVE
COVERED THAT STORY.
THEY ALSO SAY, AND I WANT TO GET
YOUR RESPONSE TO THIS, BECAUSE
IT’S THE FIRST TIME YOU’RE
SPEAKING, THAT YOU BASICALLY FOR
NO OTHER REASON THAN POLITICAL PAYBACK, BARONE AND KELLY USED
PAYBACK, BARONE AND KELLY USED
IT TO JEOPARDIZEGENERAL DECEPTIO
AND JEOPARDIZED THE SAFETY OF
THE TOWN’S RESIDENTS.
>> I WISH I HAD PAID MORE
ATTENTION TO THE INFORMATION I
HAVE BEEN GIVEN.
I HAVE REGRETTED THIS FOR SEVEN
YEARS.
IT’S WHAT LED ME TO GO TO
PRISON.
WHILE IT’S NOT CRIMINAL,
CERTAINLY WHAT I’VE BEEN TRYING
TO DO IS TO MAKE UP FOR THOSE
MISTAKES IN HELPING OTHER PEOPLE
WHO NEED HELP RIGHT NOW.
AND THAT’S WHAT IOWA BEEN
FOCUSED ON.
.
>> SO LET’S GET INTO THAT, AS
PROMISED.
I DID HAVE SOME NEWS ITEMS THERE
I WANTED TO WALK THROUGH.
TELL US WHAT IT WAS LIKE FOR YOU
WHEN YOU DID GO INTO PRISON
HERE.
WHAT YOU LEARNED AND WHAT YOU
SAY YOU WANT TO DO NOW ON POLICY
AND TRYING TO BE CONSTRUCTIVE
WITH THE REST OF THE TIME YOU
HAVE, OBVIOUSLY.
>> WELL, I HAD PREPARED A LOT TO
GO INTO FEDERAL PRISON.
IT WAS A DIFFICULT TIME.
I WAS IN LORETTO FEDERAL PRISON,
WHICH HAS ABOUT A THOUSAND
PRISONERS.
I WAS IN THE CAMP.
ONE OF THE THINGS I LEARNED IS
PREPARING TO GO IN IS REALLY
IMPORTANT.
SO WHAT I AM DOING NOW IS
HELPING PEOPLE WHO ARE GETTING
READY TO GO INTO PRISON, AND
HELPING PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING
OUT OF PRISON, ESPECIALLY NOW
WITH CORONAVIRUS AND WHAT
PRISONERS ARE FACING.
ALL THE THINGS, ARI, THAT YOU
AND I ARE ABLE TO DO ON THE
OUTSIDE WORLD, SOCIAL DISTANCE,
YOU CAN’T DO THAT IN PRISON.
WASH YOUR HANDS OFTEN.
SOMETIMES THEY DON’T EVEN HAVE
ANY SOAP.
WEAR A MASK.
SOMETIMES THEY DON’T HAVE MASKS.
AND EVEN GET TESTED.
WE’RE SEEING ALL ACROSS THE
COUNTRY PRISONS AT BOTH THE
STATE AND FEDERAL LEVEL UNABLE
TO PROVIDE TESTS FOR PEOPLE
THERE IN THE PRISONS.
AND ONE PRISON, WE SAW IT
YESTERDAY, 75% OF PRISONERS
TESTED POSITIVE FOR CORONAVIRUS.
ALREADY THERE HAS BEEN I THINK
AROUND 2300 PEOPLE HAVE TESTED
POSITIVE IN OUR PRISONS.
52 HAVE DIED, INCLUDING ONE LAST
NIGHT, A 65-YEAR-OLD MAN IN
CALIFORNIA.
HAD A 33-MONTH SENTENCE, AND HE
DIED OF CORONAVIRUS.
AND WHEN WE’RE SENDING PEOPLE TO
PRISON FOR 33 MONTHS, THAT
BECOMES A DEATH PENALTY.
AND TO ME THAT IS -- THAT IS
CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT.
SO I AM DOING EVERYTHING I CAN.
>> I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU A
FOLLOW ON, AND I APPRECIATE
THAT.
THAT’S SOMETHING AS YOU KNOW WE
REPORT ON HERE AND IT’S AN
IMPORTANT STORY.
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THE SKEPTICS
WHO LOOK AT SOME OF THESE
EFFORTS AND SAY WAIT A MINUTE,
WHERE WAS THE CONCERN FROM SAY A
GOVERNOR BLAGOJEVICH OR
REPUBLICAN OFFICIALS BEFORE THEY
GOT IN TROUBLE, THAT THERE SEEMS
TO BE A KIND OF SELECTIVE
AWAKENING ON THIS.
THAT IS AS I THINK YOU KNOW A
PUBLIC CRITICISM OUT THERE.
I WANT TO GIVE YOU THE BENEFIT
OF RESPONDING TO IT.
>> WELL, AGAIN, I’M NOT SURE
ABOUT THE CRITICISM, BUT I DO
THINK IT IS ALL OF OUR
RESPONSIBILITY, YOU KNOW, TO AT
THIS MOMENT IN CRISIS, WE LOOK
AT PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY
SUFFERING.
AND THERE IS A GROUP THAT CAN’T
HELP THEMSELVES.
AND WE BUILT THIS STRANGE SYSTEM
WHERE IF YOU ARE SICK IN PRISON
OR YOU’RE OLDER, YOU NEED TO
APPLY TO GET A COMPASSIONATE
RELEASE, BUT YOU HAVE TO WAIT 30
DAYS.
AND THEN YOU’VE GOT TO GET A
LAWYER, IF YOU CAN AFFORD A
LAWYER TO BE ABLE TO GO TO THE
SENTENCING JUDGE WHO SENT YOU TO
PRISON.
IT MAY NOT BE IN THE SAME STATE
YOU ARE, AND HOPE THAT THE
SENTENCING JUDGE LETS YOU OUT.
TO ME THAT IS ALREADY TAKING A
TWO-TIER JUSTICE SYSTEM AND
MAKING IT EVEN WORSE.
BECAUSE IF YOU CAN AFFORD A
LAWYER TO GO INTO COURT FOR YOU,
MAYBE YOU’VE GOT A CHANCE TO GET
OUT.
IF YOU CAN’T, WELL, YOU’RE GOING
TO STAY THERE.
TO ME THAT’S NOT A SYSTEM, ARI,
THAT’S WORKING.
AND I THINK IT’S INCUMBENT ON
ALL OF US.
NOW I HAVE THE EXPERIENCE HAVING
BEEN IN PRISON, I KNOW WHAT IT’S
LIKE, THAT YOU CAN’T BE SIX FEET
APART, WHERE YOUR BUNKS ARE TWO
FEET APART FROM EACH OTHER.
I LEARNED SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE
SICK IN PRISON, AND I THINK IT’S
ALL OF OUR RESPONSIBILITIES, I
KNOW YOU’VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT
IT FOR A LONG TIME, ALL OF OUR
RESPONSIBILITIES TO DO SOMETHING
ABOUT IT.
>> YEAH.
AND AS YOU JUST MENTIONED, THIS
IS SOMETHING WE TALKED ABOUT
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT RACIAL
DISPARITIES IN THE BROADCAST.
YOU JUST SUMMARIZED IT AS AN
ATTORNEY AND A POLICYMAKER
YOURSELF THINGS THAT ARE EVEN
ALLEGEDLY SUPPOSEDLY ABOUT
HUMANITARIAN CONCERNS AND
COMPASSION STILL REQUIRE MONEY.
SO POOR PEOPLE AREN’T GOING TO
BE ABLE TO AVAIL THEMSELVES OF
THAT WHILE PEOPLE WITH THE MONEY
TO FUND LAWYERS DO.
AND THAT’S AS YOU SAID
TWO-TIERED.
IT’S A REAL PROBLEM.
IT’S SOMETHING WE’VE SHONE A
LIGHT ON.
BILL BARONI, YOU WERE AN
INTERVIEW SUBJECT IN DEMAND WITH