Mark, as you well know, is a historic day on Capit
The January 6th committee referr President Trump to the Justice
Department on four criminal char for obstructing an official proc
conspiring to defraud the United conspiring to make false conspir
I should say, to make false stat assisting or aiding and insurrec
This is the first time that Cong has referred a former president
for criminal prosecution. So let's discuss all of this.
Joining me now, Democratic Congr Adam Schiff, a Californian
and a member of the House Select Committee investigating January
Congressman, we appreciate you joining us tod
Thank you so much.
Why was it important for those criminal referrals?
Because Republicans are framing as legally not binding and sayin
that it's only ceremonial, basic downplaying the work of the comm
Well, Republicans have been down the work of the committee since
But happily, the American people have been wa
And it was important in a number of respects.
It was important
because this was an attack on th as well as on our democracy.
Normally, the Congress would refer potenti
of failing to appear before Cong being subpoenaed or lying to Con
Here, this was an attack on the
And we had a duty, I think, to s the evidence that we had gathere
about the threat to our democrac how we are not out of the woods
and what do we need to do to protect ourselves going forwa
But also, it was important, I think, as a matter of accounta
for the Justice Department.
The American people now understa in the view of our committee,
the former president committed
serious crimes that the Justice needs to investigate.
And that that, I think, will hop
hold the Justice Department to the standard
it set out at the beginning of investigatio
that it would follow the evidenc wherever it leads.
It would have only one standard the rule of law would apply it e
whether you were a former presid or an ordinary citizen.
So it's an important element of accountability.
Can I ask you, Congressman,
why did the committee not recomm
a seditious conspiracy charge
We indicated that
the Justice Department, with the it has, which may be additional
to what we have gathered, should consider seditious conspi
But we went through other offens we felt the evidence in our poss
made all of the links in terms of causation,
in terms of the elements of each part of the offense.
So we put the strongest evidence strongest criminal offenses forw
But we recognize there are other the Justice Department needs to
to consider, including that one.
This is not meant to be an exhau by any means.
And indeed,
we also point out that there are other individuals
that may have come to the Justic Department's attention and ours,
we didn't want to itemize necess what the evidence was as two ind
You're saying it wasn't meant to be an exhaustive list.
So this is I'm wondering then, if you think that these are your
you know, most this at
the best evidence to support these four charges.
Let me just read them off again, obstructing an official proceedi
defrauding the United States,
making false statements, assisti or aiding an insurrection.
Do you think that that is the be and that's why those were put ou
And of those four, do you think any better than the others
Yes, we identify these four beca
in looking at the evidence in our possession, thought
that there was sufficient eviden as to each element of each of th
and that they were serious enoug that we wanted to
refer the matter to the Justice Department.
But we want to be sure that people understand
that there are other offenses to this is not meant to be exhausti
in terms of which are the strong of those referrals.
You know, there are and I say this as a former prose
There are times when the most serious offense
is not necessarily the easiest offense to prove.
And and so we wanted to list all four of these.
It may be the Justice Department determines that the evidence
is strongest as to this statute or that statu
I think the most serious of the we allege
is the crime of insurrection its
And there I think the evidence i that the president assembled thi
that after all else, failed and he's told that this
people in the crowd won't go thr metal detectors because they're
He nonetheless sends this armed and dangerous mob to the Capitol
and while they're attacking poli officers interfering in the join
he watches from the comfort of the White House dining room a
to lift a finger to do anything and then tells the country
how much he loves these people and is even now talking about pa
if he gets the chance.
Congressman, one person your com didn't speak to was Vice Preside
He was weighing in on what he th the Justice Department should do
This is what he said
I would
hope that they would not bring c against the former president.
I don't.
Look, I as I wrote in my book, I think the president's
actions and words on January six were reckless.
But I don't know that it's his c to take bad advice from lawyers.
I hope the Justice Department un the magnitude of the very idea o
indicting a former president of the United States.
I think that would be terribly d in the country.
Obviously, it was not just bad advice from
but I wonder if Pence had come b what would you have
asked him?
Well, first of all,
I think you have to view everyth Mike Pence says through the pris
he thinks is best position for him to run for president.
And that's, I think, a really disappointing copout that you ju
It wasn't, as you say, just a ma of getting bad advice from lawye
He was getting good advice from his own top Justice
Department people that there was to these fraud claims.
So what was his answer?
Well, just say the election was and leave the rest to me.
And the Republican congressman t he told his own Justice
Department to lie about it and he would take it from there.
So in terms of what we would hav to have heard from the vice pres
he was on the phone in meetings president talking about the join
The vice president understood
he had no constitutional authori to simply disregard legitimate e
And and instead declare somehow Donald Trump the winner.
Those conversations were really for the American people to know.
And I think that, again, the vice president did a grave d
with his refusal to testify beca certainly could have decided to
It's another matter about whether we could have forc
But there was nothing prohibitin as other presidents indeed
have come before Congress after their terms were over.
We'll see if he speaks to the Ju Department.
Congressman Adam Schiff, though, thank you for joining us this mo
to break down the findings of your committee from yesterday
Thank you, Congressman, and happy holidays to you. Thank