IT IS WHEN NOT IF
PRESENTED AT MOST LEISURE
GATHERINGS WITH MORE THAN 50
PEOPLE.
THE PASS SHOWS IF A PERSON WAS
VACCINATED AND TESTED NEGATIVE.
THE FRENCH PRESIDENT IS
RECONSIDERING NEW RULES IN THE
FACE OF PROTESTS AGAINST
RESTRICTIONS.
JOINING US, POLANDS FORMER
FOREIGN MINISTER AND MINISTER OF
DEFENSE.
MEMBER OF THE EUROPEAN
PARLIAMENT, CHAIR OF DELEGATION
FROM THE PARLIAMENT THAT MEETS
REGULARLY WITH ITS COUNTERPARTS
IN THE U.S. HOUSE OF
REPRESENTATIVES.
IT IS VERY GOOD TO HAVE YOU ON
THE SHOW.
I GUESS MY FIRST QUESTION IS ARE
THERE DIFFERENCES IN THE
CHALLENGES THAT EUROPE IS FACING
IN TERMS OF TRYING TO BEAT BACK
THE COVID VIRUS AND THE DELTA
VARIANT AND OTHER VARIATIONS
VERSUS THE U.S., ARE YOU SEEING
ANY DIFFERENCES IN APPROACH AND
REACTION TO THE APPROACH?
>> THE PROPORTIONS OF
VACCINATIONS AND I THINK WITH
CASUALTIES ARE QUITE SIMILAR.
WE ALSO HAVE THE CHALLENGE OF
SOME PEOPLE NOT WANTING TO
VACCINATE.
THEY SHOULD REMEMBER THAT THE
ANTI-VAX MOVEMENT WAS BOOSTED BY
RUSSIAN TROLLING, ACTIVE MEASURE
TO SET US AGAINST SCIENCE AND
SET US AGAINST OUR GOVERNMENTS,
TO SEW DISCORD AND CONFUSION.
>> SO IT SEEMS TO ME, THERES
SIMILARITIES IN THAT THE FIGHT
AGAINST COVID IS ACTUALLY A
FIGHT AGAINST DISINFORMATION?
>> PARTLY, YES, BECAUSE THIS HAS
IRRATIONAL TENDENCIES IN
SOCIETIES HAVE BEEN STRONGLY
SUPPORTED BY THOSE WHO WISH I
WILL TO OUR DEMOCRACY, TO OUR
WESTERN WAY OF LIFE.
IN THIS CASE, I AM AFRAID IT HAS
BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL.
>> YOU HAD THE FIRST MEETING OF
THE TRANSATLANTIC LEGISLATORS I
DESCRIBED IN THE LEAD IN TO YOU.
TELL US WHAT YOU LEARNED, WHAT
WAS THE BIGGEST SOURCE OF
DISCUSSION, AND HOW COVID, THE
FIGHT AGAINST THE PANDEMIC IS
IMPACTING THE SECURITY AROUND
THE WORLD.
>> WE MET SPEAKER PELOSI,
MEETINGS AT THE STATE DEPARTMENT
AND NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL
AND EXCHANGES WITH THE CO-CHAIR
AND OTHER CONGRESSMEN AND
SENATORS.
YES, THIS IS THE MOST URGENT
ISSUE AND HERE I THINK WE HAVE
BEEN ABLE TO HELP EACH OTHER.
REMEMBER, THE VACCINES HAVE
BEEN, PFIZER, FOR EXAMPLE, AN
AMERICAN COMPANY.
BUT TURKISH IMMIGRANTS IN
GERMANY WHO INVENTED THIS.
REMARKABLE SUCCESS AND THE
VACCINES WERE INVENTED SO
QUICKLY.
NOW WE NEED TO PERSUADE BOTH
SIDES OF THE ATLANTIC THOSE WHO
ARE SKEPTICAL.
I THINK WE NOW HAVE A WEALTH OF
DATA TO PERSUADE PEOPLE
VACCINATION WORKS, THAT IT SAVES
LIVES, AND THIS IS A COMMON
CHALLENGE.
WE DISCUSSED ISSUES LIKE IN
ORDER STREAM, CHALLENGES TO --
HEART ATTACK 6th OF JANUARY.
OUR CHALLENGES IN MEMBER STATES.
CHINA WAS VERY HIGH ON THE
AGENDA.
WE NEED TO STICK TOGETHER,
EUROPE AND THE UNITED STATES.
WE CREATED THE TRADE AND
TECHNOLOGY COUNCIL WHICH WILL
MONITOR INVESTMENTS, STANDARDS
AND REGULATIONS TO DO WITH OUR
RELATIONSHIP WITH CHINA.
>> CERTAINLY CHINA IS A
FLASHPOINT IN PRESIDENT BIDENS
FIRST OVERSEAS TRIP LAST MONTH
TO EUROPE FOR THE G7 AND SO ON.
CAN YOU GIVE US AN UPDATE ABOUT
STATUS FOR THE EUROPEAN ECONOMY,
SOME MEMBER STATES.
FOR INSTANCE, THIS MORNING IN
THE U.S., APPLICATIONS FOR
JOBLESS AID ROSE, THOUGH THE
ECONOMY HAS SHOWN SOME SIGNS OF
IMPROVEMENT, IT IS NOT ALL THE
WAY THERE.
THERE ARE REAL POCKETS PEOPLE
ARE STRUGGLING.
WHAT IS THE ECONOMIC FALLOUT
FROM THE PANDEMIC IN EUROPE IN
TERMS OF IS IT PREDICKABLY
CENTERED IN CERTAIN NATIONS?
>> WE DONT KNOW HOW DEBTS WE
HAVE TAKEN ON WILL PLAY OUT.
EUROPE HAS PASSED WHAT WE HOPE
WILL PASS ALSO HERE, WHICH IS TO
SAY A HUGE RECOVERY AND
INVESTMENT PROGRAM, 2 TRILLION
EUROS, AND IT WILL BE SPENT VERY
QUICKLY ON IMPROVING OUR HEALTH
SYSTEMS, ON CYBER AND DIGITAL
TRANSFORMATION AND ON ENERGY
TRANSFORMATION. FOR THE FIRST TIME, EUROPEAN
FOR THE FIRST TIME, EUROPEAN
UNION HAS TAKEN OUT 750 BILLION
EUROS OF COMMON DEBT AND IT IS
ALREADY REACHING MEMBER STATES.
>> I WANT TO ASK YOU, YOU SAID
WE HAVE TO STICK TOGETHER ON A
NUMBER OF LEVELS, ESPECIALLY
AGAINST DISINFORMATION.
ALSO THESE CYBER ATTACKS, WHAT
CAN THE EUROPEAN UNION DO TO
STICK TOGETHER AGAINST THEM
PERTAINING TO THE SOURCES,
POTENTIALLY CHINA, MOST PROBABLY
RUSSIA.
WHAT AGGRESSIVELY CAN BE DONE TO
PUSH BACK AGAINST THESE BEFORE
THEY BECOME WHAT THEY ALREADY
ARE WHICH IS MODERN WARFARE AND
DO UNSPEAK AJ DAMAGE TO
DEMOCRACIES.
>> THEY ISSUED A STATEMENT THAT
CYBER ATTACKS ON NATO, EUROPE IS
NOT A MILITARY SUPER POWER LIKE
YOU BUT WE ARE A REGULAR SUPER
POWER.
WE HAVE THE LARGEST, RICHEST
COMMON MARKET ON EARTH AND WE
CAN REGULATE HOW PEOPLE INTERACT
WITH THAT MARKET, HOW PEOPLE USE
THE DATA OF OUR CITIZENS AND WE
NEED TO DO THIS BECAUSE THE
INTERNET, TECH, ALL WONDERFUL
THINGS BUT AS WE ARE
DISCOVERING, THEY ALSO HAVE DOWN
SIDES.
OUR CITIZENS ARE DEMANDING
ACTION AND EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT
WILL BE AT THE FOREFRONT OF
THIS.
>> ALL RIGHT.
MEMBER OF THE EUROPEAN
PARLIAMENT, THANK YOU.