another testy exchange in that hearing
came after utah senator mike lee said
it was actually democrats who enacted
jim crow laws take a lesson
republicans never ceased to be the party
never ceased to be the party it believes
that the 13th 14th and 15th amendments
matter
it's not fair it's not accurate to
portray the two parties as having
somehow
crossed i happen to disagree with that
opinion you see it differently
senator mike lee a republican from utah
and member of the senate judiciary
committee joins us now to discuss that
and much more welcome back senator good
to see you
thank you shannon good to be with you i
mean we are now in a moment where the
country is feeling very divided over a
number of things we've got
the verdict now in the derek chauvin
trial uh convicted on all three counts
um and we're trying to move forward now
there are still those in the streets
tonight who are
that that verdict they say is just a
beginning it's not an adequate
addressing of the underlying problems
so when we hear people using um the
words jim crow and equating current laws
or current measures to that
it is certain to invoke pain and it's
uncertain to invoke division it seems
with a lot of people
what do you make of that conversation
and the use of that phrasing these days
look people are entitled to their own
opinions they're not entitled to their
own facts and i found it especially
offensive
that today's hearing bore the title
jim crow 2021 this is in reference to
laws that various states are passing in
various states including georgia
to make their elections more credible
more
secure and less penetrable to fraud
and so to call that jim crow as an
insult
to people many of whom are still alive
today who actually experienced jim crow
people like my friend and colleague
burgess owens who
uh was uh alive to experience some of
the remnants of jim crow laws
jim crow laws of course were were put in
place
following the civil war by by democrats
to keep black americans from voting
and getting elected as republicans and
that this was happening
happening with some regularity they
stopped that the
democratic party put in place jim crow
laws in order to separate
african americans who were otherwise
making real progress in the south
now listen i understand that that's in
the past but
you can't name something you can't name
a policy
like georgia's election security law you
can't call that jim crow without
insulting those who actually endured jim
crow policies
and and also without an uh owning up to
the fact that
these were in fact democratic party
initiatives
and i find it very troubling that that
was the caption for today's hearing
in the meantime we have this derrick
chauvin trial playing out as we talked
about and congresswoman maxine waters
sparking a lot of attention for comments
she made over the weekend talking about
we've got to have more confrontation
about the verdict that she hoped to see
um it's free country she can talk about
what verdict she'd like to see but when
those words then
include things about taking to the
streets and confrontation
there were some people who felt that was
potentially a threat she says
republicans purposely
misused her words here's what she says
that's what the civil rights movement
was all about it was about
activism it was about confrontation a
lot of people see that as being bad
and they tried to turn my words into
something about violence
and now we see a lot of taking people's
words in washington whether they're
republicans or democrats and attributing
specific motives
to them what do you make about this
conversation about the congresswoman's
words
well look shannon i'd make it a policy
never to purport
to have the gift of mind reading i can't
get into somebody else's head i can't
know what they subjectively intended
when they said it
i i will tell you that when i read her
words
i did read them as
advocating certain things that i find
abhorrent advocating things that i would
equate
with violence now if she didn't
subjectively intend that
i i can't uh prove or disprove
what she's what she thought but i do
know what she said
and i think her words were dangerous and
i
i i think it's very important for people
to not make
comments like that uh particularly while
a jury is
out and where they can be construed
as threatening language toward that jury
want to make sure while we have you that
i ask you about this uh ongoing debate
about earmarks it's one of the things
that people say they regularly hate
about congress
these pet projects uh that you know they
often feel are horse trading or other
things
um but there are those who say if
republicans aren't willing to take
part in earmarks they're actually going
to be at a disadvantage
if they don't play the game where are
you on that
i'm against earmarks shannon earmarks
are a type of spending where
congress channels money to a particular
congressional district or
state or business interest or or
non-profit
rather than appropriating to satisfy
some particular objective
we banned those about 10 years ago we
should not revisit that ban
there are some within the senate
republican conference
who would perhaps like to see them come
back so a number of us
including 19 republican senators have
signed a letter
saying that we will oppose any efforts
to undo the ban
and we will not participate in earmarks
we're still
adding signatories uh constantly we've
just added another signature within the
last hour or so
we're going to continue to add more
signatures
over the next 24 hours and we expect to
win this fight
we will watch as it plays out on capitol
hill senator lee