>>>
>>> AND
>>> AND WELCOME BACK TO "SUNDAY SQUARE-OFF."
SQUARE-OFF." A TEAM OF REPORTERS AND EDITORS
FROM THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC WON A
MAJOR NATIONAL HONOR LAST WEEK.
THE GEORGE POLK AWARD FOR THEIR
REVEALING STORIES ON THE
STATE'S PUBLICLY FUNDED CHARTER
SCHOOLS.
SCHOOLS.
SCHOOLS. THE SERIES PROMPTED CALLS FOR
CHARTER REFORM FROM GOVERNOR
DOUG DUCEY, A BIG BACKER OF
CHARTERS AND LAWMAKERS.
WE'RE ALMOST TWO MONTHS INTO
THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION, HAVE
THE GOVERNOR OR LAWMAKERS DONE
ANYTHING?
ANYTHING?
ANYTHING? JOINING US IS CRAIG HARRIS,
LEAD REPORTER ON "THE ARIZONA
REPUBLIC" SERIES AND
CONGRATULATIONS, MY FRIEND.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> HUGE AWARD AND EXCELLENT
WORK.
WORK.
WORK. NOW, YOU CAN READ THE SERIES OF
STORIES ONLINE AT AZCENTRAL.COM
BUT FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T READ
IT, GIVE US SOME OF THE KEY
TAKEAWAYS.
TAKEAWAYS. >> WE FOUND BASICALLY CHARTER
OPERATORS WERE -- CRITICS WOULD
SAY USING PUBLIC FUNDS AS A
PERSONAL PIGGY BANK.
THEY'RE BECOMING MULTI-
MILLIONAIRES BY TAKING MONEY
THAT WAS SOME WOULD SAY
DESIGNATED FOR THE CLASSROOM
AND PUTTING IT IN THEIR
POCKETS.
POCKETS.
POCKETS. PRIMA VERA CEO PAID HIMSELF A
MILLION DOLLARS.
MILLION DOLLARS. ONE MADE $14 MILLION SELLING
HIS SCHOOLS TO ANOTHER COMPANY.
YOU HAD SITUATIONS AT BASIS
WHERE THEY WERE ASKING PARENTS
FOR DONATIONS AT THE SAME TIME
THE FOUNDER WAS BUYING A
MANHATTAN CONDOMINIUM FOR $8
MILLION.
MILLION.
MILLION. YOU HAVE A SITUATIONS WHERE
MONTH AFTER MONTH, WE WERE
WRITING ABOUT A LOT OF REALLY
QUESTIONABLE EXPENSES, AND THEN
YOU KNOW, BY THE END OF THE
YEAR, THERE WERE SOME CALLS BY
THE GOVERNOR AND LAWMAKERS TO
MAKE SOME KIND OF REFORMS.
>> QUESTIONABLE EXPENSES BUT
ALL PERFECTLY LEGAL UNDER
ARIZONA LAW.
ARIZONA LAW. >> PERFECTLY LEGAL IF YOU'RE A
CHARTER SCHOOL.
CHARTER SCHOOL. IF THIS WAS A SCHOOL DISTRICT
IT WOULD NOT.
YOU WOULD PROBABLY BE GOING TO
PRISON.
PRISON.
PRISON. >> BUT LEGAL.
LATE LAST WEEK THE FIRST AND I
THINK ONLY CHARTER SCHOOL
REFORM BILL, AM I CORRECT?
>> YES.
>> YES.
>> YES. >> GOT A HEARING.
SNUCK IN UNDER THE DEADLINE TO
GET A HEARING, SPONSORED BY
REPUBLICAN SENATOR.
REPUBLICAN SENATOR. THE BILL HAD A BUMPY RIDE TO
GET TO THAT HEARING.
TALK ABOUT WHERE IT STARTED
FIRST AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT
WHERE IT IS, WHAT IT DOES,
RIGHT NOW.
RIGHT NOW. >> THE FIRST DRAFT HAD A HUGE
LOOP HOLE IN IT THAT IF YOU
HIRED A MANAGEMENT COMPANY YOU
COULD BASICALLY GET AROUND ALL
OF THESE WHAT THEY CALL
PROCUREMENT LAWS WHICH IS LAWS
HOW YOU BUY GOODS AND SERVICES.
THAT WAS TAKEN OUT.
BUT THERE'S STILL SOME PRETTY
SIGNIFICANT LOOP HOLES IN THERE
THAT YOU CAN GET AROUND THESE
REFORMS.
REFORMS.
REFORMS. AND WHAT MAKES IT CONTROVERSIAL
IS THE BILL WAS LARGELY WRITTEN
BY A LOBBYIST FOR THE ARIZONA
CHARTER ASSOCIATION, WHICH
REPRESENTS THE 500 CHARTER
SCHOOLS, SO CRITICS WOULD SAY
YOU HAVE THE FOX GUARDING THE
HEN HOUSE AND YOU HAVE ALL
THESE CHARTER OPERATORS SAYING,
GREAT, WE WANT TO BE REFORMED.
IT'S LIKE THAT RAISES A RED
FLAG FOR MOST REPORTERS WHEN
PEOPLE IN AN INDUSTRY ARE
WELCOMING WHAT THEY CALL
REFORM.
REFORM.
REFORM. >> AND THE CHARTER LOBBYIST WAS
THE LEAD SPEAKER AT THE HEARING
TO EXPLAIN THE BILL.
>> WELL, YES.
HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE MERITS
OF THE BILL AND HOW GREAT IT
WAS AND THEN THAT KIND OF
KICKED OFF A BUNCH OF OTHER
SPEAKERS OF PARENTS WHO CAME
DOWN AND THEY SPOKE ABOUT HOW
GREAT CHARTER SCHOOLS WERE FOR
THEIR KIDS BUT THEY DIDN'T
SPEAK ABOUT THE BILL.
THEY WERE THERE TO TALK ABOUT
HOW GREAT CHARTER SCHOOLS WERE,
AND TOOK A SWIPE AT SCHOOL
DISTRICTS.
DISTRICTS. IT'S A TYPICAL THING AT THE
LEGISLATURE WHERE YOU GET
PARENTS AND FAMILIES WORKED UP
ABOUT A BILL.
THEY'RE TOLD TO SAY.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, THERE'S
-- THERE ARE SOME CHANGES THAT
ARE GOING TO BE MADE BUT
CRITICS WILL SAY THEY'RE VERY
INCREMENTAL, VERY SMALL
CHANGES.
CHANGES.
CHANGES. >> WHAT'S THE MOST SIGNIFICANT
CHANGE, THIS BILL WOULD MAKE?
>> I THINK A COUPLE SIGNIFICANT
CHANGES WOULD BE YOU CAN'T JUST
HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS RUNNING THE
SCHOOL.
SCHOOL.
SCHOOL. YOU HAVE TO HAVE A HANDFUL OF
INDEPENDENT MEMBERS.
INDEPENDENT MEMBERS. AND THAT SOUNDS --
>> BOARD MEMBERS.
>> BOARD MEMBERS.
YOU HAVE TO -- IT'S GOING TO
HAVE THE STATE BOARD OF CHARTER
SCHOOLS PROVIDE TRAINING ON
PUBLIC RECORDS LAWS, OPEN
MEETINGS LAWS, HOW NOT TO
DISCRIMINATE AGAINST SPECIAL
NEEDS KIDS, THINGS YOU WOULD
THINK WOULD BE COMMON SENSE FOR
AN INDUSTRY THAT'S BEEN AROUND
FOR 25 YEARS.
BUT IS NOT.
AND THEN YOU ALSO HAVE
SITUATIONS WHERE THEY ARE
MAKING IT MORE CHALLENGING ON
HOW YOU PURCHASE SERVICES BUT
IF YOU'RE A BIG CHAIN AND YOU
STILL HAVE A MANAGEMENT
COMPANY, YOU CAN GET AROUND
SOME OF THESE ISSUES STILL.
>> SO LAST THING, WOULD ANY OF
THE ELEMENTS OF THIS BILL DO
AWAY WITH WHAT YOU DESCRIBED AT
THE TOP OF THIS SEGMENT?
>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.
>> CHARTER MILLIONAIRES WOULD
STILL BE MADE.
>> THEY WOULD STILL BE MADE AND
ACTUALLY THE BILL IS ACTUALLY
ALMOST A FULL EMPLOYMENT ACT
FOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTERS FOR
A WHOLE OTHER YEAR BECAUSE WE
WILL CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO
WRITE ABOUT FINANCIAL ABUSES
WITHIN CHARTER SCHOOLS BECAUSE
THE BILL DOES ABSOLUTELY
NOTHING TO REIN THAT PROBLEM
IN.
IN.
IN. >>
IN. >> YOU'VE BEEN WARNED CHARTER